French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

reply to post by Dock9


Sounds like you have the same problems in Down Under.
In France, the plural marriages are not officially recognized, so the extra wives get more money per month, being officially "single mothers".
They have made no requests to have their bigamy officially recognized.

Wearing a bag on your head is not Islam, there is no Quranic injunction to wear it.
I support this law. These head bags are for 2 things, control, and segragation.
They want to control their women, and they want their "Islam" to not integrate.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Annee

 

Don't 'dude' me sweetie and play the age game

because I can see you and raise you

Birthday yesterday. Not quite as old as you, but a hell of a lot wiser, obviously

Now, tell me what age has to do with it

Go on

Never mind - - age and experience and life - - - has nothing to do with anything.

"Oh Wise One". Obviously!

reply to post by tom502


And what about the young French (born in France) women, talked about on the news this mornign, who choose to wear the burqa after they have religious "awakenings"? I don't agree with the "awakening" or forcing anyone to dress in a certain way, but stopping 300 women in a country of 62 million, from dressing as they want is lunacy.

Originally posted by Dock9
reply to post by Annee

 

Don't 'dude' me sweetie and play the age game

because I can see you and raise you

Birthday yesterday. Not quite as old as you, but a hell of a lot wiser, obviously

Now, tell me what age has to do with it

Go on

Age has a lot to do with things because most of what is transpiring now has transpired many times in the past, some over the course of older lifetimes more than once, with what's new now simply being the player.

In reality how Muslims are being treated today in many Western Christian Nations is very similiar if not identical to how Jews were treated in early Nazi Germany.

People simply refuse to see it because they aren't Jews and this isn't Germany, but if you are looking at it objectively it's the same exact thing.

Societies united on a war time footing against a 'common' religious enemy, that enemy is present within society, that element is a threat, they don't 'share' our values, and because they don't they must be 'wrong' in how they live.

Trust me if this was a move to outlaw the Jewish Kippah skull cap you would have people screaming NAZI! at the top of their lungs.

I honestly find it very sad and disturbing to see how different societies can be manipulated into doing in essence the very same things, the very same destructive things, even things like religious persecution that they know deep down is not just wrong but represents a danger to their own religion ultimately too.

After all the Jewish villians of yesteryear are the Muslim villians of today.

Many Jewish women take mikva baths in milk to purify themselves after menustrating for their men, many won't cross the same doorway as their men when menustrating per there men, many wear scarves as a sign of modesty and long denim skirts as a sign of modesty, yet that's all off limits to discuss now as it should be, but it's off limits only because of Jewish Persecution in World War II.

So if history continues to repeat itself eventually criticism of Islam will be off limits after the nations villifying them are finally stopped from their wars for oil militarily and they will end up with a similiar off limits moral authority because of the persecution that they suffered.

Sure you really don't mind the burka that much, because you are in fact going to be paying a heck of a price for it in the longrun.

If history is any guide and it always is.

Don't be stupid people, learn from the past, this kind of fear and persecution never leads to anything good.

NEVER!

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Dock9

 

' Because we created new legislation which prohibits bigamy. BUT ... we included a loophole to favour the muslims.

What is your opinion on why they are accommodating Muslims in this area?

Common wisdom was that it was just more zionist world-destroying, world-shaping, culture destroying, White hating

And THEN I learned about the Saudis

and that put it ALL in perspective

Do you know about the Saudis ?

About how they have funded virtually all the mosques erected in Western nations ?

Do you know how they had ADMITTED to shovelling over 90 billion dollars into ' The promotion of the spread of islam in the West ' ?

Did you hear how they threatened the life of the first person to expose this online ? And she took it on the chin and kept posting info and sources and as far as I'm aware is still breathing, although lots of forums cave when told to suppress the information

Yes, the Saudis themselves admitted they'd funded The Spread of the Promotion of Islam in the West to the tune of almost 90 billion -- and that was a couple of decades ago. As Jethro would say, ' That's oil -- that's liquid gold '. No wonder petrol prices are so high. We're funding the Promotion of the Spread of Islam in the West, here in the West

And it's chapter and verse on different sites. The Australian media reported how the Saudis had funded what at the time was one of the largest mosques in the West in this suburb, and another giant mosque in that suburb over there, etc. And there were muslim spokespersons at the time who freely acknowledged the source of the funding, in Australia and in other Western nations

But then it became just a bit too obvious, I guess. And people must have been asking, ' Hey, why are the Saudis so intent on pushing muslims into the West ? Why are they doing it ? Why are they prepared to spend so much money on that programme ? '

So the Saudis grew coy. They refused to discuss it. And people became too scared to mention it. So the information dried up. But it's still there online if you're interested. Just run a search along the lines of ' Saudis spend billions on mosques in the West' or similar. And if you want to find it, you will

Of course, when charming men with gold sandals fly you to a luxury suite in the middle east and place servants at your disposal and flatter and cultivate you and press thick yellow gold gifts in your hands --- what are you going to do ? This must have been the rationale of all those cheap, nonentity Western temporary politicians who took the money

And of course, they were able to rationalise it also by saying to the effect, ' Gee, what's a few more million in population, huh ? They'll blend in. And Big Business will be happy with us for providing them millions more consumers ' etc. etc.

Except muslims, by and large, do not care to 'blend in', particularly not the more bestial and primitive types from goat tracks in the mid east. Sure, the Indonesians are far more peaceable, far more inclined to show consideration to their host neighbours, far more inclined to work and get ahead and make a life for their children. Except we didn't get very many of those at all. Instead, they apparently emptied out the middle east and sent them to classical white Christian societies, such as Denmark, Norway, Australia, UK. And you've got to wonder why they did that. It sure wasn't to enhance those host nations or with any intention of catering to their existing cultures. So we must assume, based on the evidence, that the Saudis (who're widely regarded as jews) and the zionists deliberately sent the worst of muslim migrants where they could do the most damage


Edited to add: It is my opinion that most if not all of the more vocal 'muslim apologists'
and deliberate disinformationist posters in this and other fora

are in receipt of Saudi money

In other words, are posting for pay for Saudi dollars

That of course is where a lot of that Saudi money is spent

... in the media

with the internet being a prime target

.
Re: the Saudi involvement

This was the first cab off the rank when I did a Search for 'Saudis fund mosques in West'

MY PROFILE From The Sunday Times March 28, 2010

Saudis fund Balkan Muslims spreading hate of the WestBojan Pancevski in Skopje SAUDI ARABIA is pouring hundreds of millions of pounds into Islamist groups in the Balkans, some of which spread hatred of the West and recruit fighters for jihad in Afghanistan.

According to officials in Macedonia, Islamic fundamentalism threatens to destabilise the Balkans. Strict Wahhabi and Salafi factions funded by Saudi organisations are clashing with traditionally moderate local Muslim communities.

Fundamentalists have financed the construction of scores of mosques and community centres as well as handing some followers up to £225 a month. They are expected not only to grow beards but also to persuade their wives to wear the niqab, or face veil, a custom virtually unknown in the liberal Islamic tradition of the Balkans.


See more here:

www.timesonline.co.uk...

This is interesting, isn't it ?

Moderate Muslim Get's Kicked Out Of Mosque In Tulsa

See more here, with video

www.hyscience.com...

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Age has a lot to do with things because most of what is transpiring now has transpired many times in the past, some over the course of older lifetimes more than once, with what's new now simply being the player.

In reality how Muslims are being treated today in many Western Christian Nations is very similar if not identical to how Jews were treated in early Nazi Germany.

People simply refuse to see it because they aren't Jews and this isn't Germany, but if you are looking at it objectively it's the same exact thing.

I remember anti-Jew hatred from my childhood in a predominately white Christian neighborhood. It boggles my mind what has transpired in just my own life time.

Life doesn't stop. The concept of living in your own little "sanctuary" without change is a fantasy.

I personally enjoy watching/living change. Sometimes its really sad to see things go - - - but its interesting to embrace the new.

Many of the suburbs of Los Angeles were farmland when I was a child. I rode the Redcars. I watched the filming of Arabian Nights in the sand dunes of El Segundo.

Now I live in a bordertown on the US/Mexico border. I find it fascinating. I just don't have any kind of "elitist" attitude that I have to protect my way of life. We are all human.

So I suppose its odd that I don't support the right to cover ones face in public. But its not about religion. Its about humans being face to face.

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
There are many cultural observances which are unacceptable in the West, forced marriage, polygamy, female genital mutilation etc. Why should the Burqua be tolerated?

As a female I cannot and do not accept that a woman should have to hide her feminity due to male insecurity and dominance.

I've been reading the entire thread up to your post and wanted to write some other perspectives and found your post a good place to start.

First of all, wearing the face veil is usually a choice and you will be surprised to know that the majority of women who cover their faces made that decision themselves. Other than Saudi Arabia ( I believe the only country to enforce the veil) most Muslim women are not forced to wear it. I wear the veil and had wanted to since I came to Islam but when I first became married, my husband preferred I did not wear it, over the months I finally talked him into letting me try it, since then I've been wearing for over a year and I love it even though at times it annoys me

I think a better law is the one in Russia, I believe? Where women are not permitted to basically dress over revealing...I mean if a nation is going to start making the choice for how we dress, then make it in the proper way. Is it, or can it be a danger? Sure a man can dress in full Islamic clothing, with face cover and enter a womans bathroom for example, but there is also a danger in a nation implementing dress codes, a danger for the people, think about what comes next? Slowly, like the frogs in boiling water, people are losing their freedom and rights.

.
And here we go

Be afraid America ---

“The Wahhabi Invasion of America”

Reza F. Safa, author of Inside Islam, estimates that since 1973, the Saudi government has spent an unbelievable $87B to promote Wahhabism in the United States, Africa, Southeast Asia and Europe. According to official Saudi information, Saudi funds have been used to build and maintain over 1,500 mosques, 202 colleges, 210 Islamic Centers wholly or partly financed by Saudi Arabia, and almost 2,000 schools for educating Muslim children in non-Islamic countries in Europe, North and South America, Australia and Asia.

The Kingdom has fully or partially financed Islamic Centers in Los Angeles; San Francisco; Fresno; Chicago; New York; Washington; Tucson; Raleigh, N.C. and Toledo, Ohio as well as in Austria, Great Britain, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Russia, Turkey, and even in some Muslim countries such as Morocco, Indonesia, Malaysia and Djibuti.

Saudi aid to Muslims abroad, however, comes with strings attached, and most of the recipient institutions end up promoting the Wahhabi version of Islam.

That's only the introduction

Click on the link to learn what the Saudis expect from those who accept Saudi monies in order to get to the West

Then ask yourself who else is taking that Saudi money ?

Your politicians ? Well, why not. They're not in office for long and they need to grab every cent they can while they can

People in forums ? Why not. Employment's hard to find, particularly for those who like to sit comfortably at home, do next to nothing yet still eat and drink etc. Why not take that Saudi money and promote islam in forums ? It pays the bills. It means they don't have to get out of bed in the morning or stand in crowded trains. It enables them to live without really working and all they have to do is lie to strangers online and lull them into a false sense of security

So be careful and do your own research

Read the excerpt above and then visit the linked site and learn just what Wahhabism really is -- really means -- and how it will affect your life and that of your family

One things for sure, Wahhibism is NOT your friend, unless you're planning to become a radical muslim

Here's the link. Maybe you should save it too

www.jfednepa.org...

Originally posted by InvisibleAlbatross
reply to post by tom502

 

And what about the young French (born in France) women, talked about on the news this mornign, who choose to wear the burqa after they have religious "awakenings"? I don't agree with the "awakening" or forcing anyone to dress in a certain way, but stopping 300 women in a country of 62 million, from dressing as they want is lunacy.

It doesn't matter. I mean, it's not right to wear a face covering and call it your religion. I mean, the KKK is not allowed to cover the faces and get a drivers liscence and walk in a bank, and there are more fanatical killer Muslims than there are KKK members today.

It's like plygamy, if they want to practice these things, then they need to move to a country that allows this, and even if the person if French born, they have to abide by the laws of the land, like western women do when they go to Islamic nations.

I always wanted to get a burka and hang out in a women's room in the mall.

Originally posted by Dock9
Yes, the Saudis themselves admitted they'd funded The Spread of the Promotion of Islam in the West to the tune of almost 90 billion -- and that was a couple of decades ago. As Jethro would say, ' That's oil -- that's liquid gold '. No wonder petrol prices are so high. We're funding the Promotion of the Spread of Islam in the West, here in the West

Christians did the same thing. Its just a different timeline.

Many countries subsidies businesses - - - started in other countries.

You have an extreme prejudice - - obviously!

Originally posted by Maymunah
I wear the veil and had wanted to since I came to Islam but when I first became married, my husband preferred I did not wear it, over the months I finally talked him into letting me try it, since then I've been wearing for over a year and I love it even though at times it annoys me

I am aware of the fact that most women choose to wear a veil, not a burqa/niqab, but I'm curious why you want to wear it. Do you feel it makes you a better Muslim? Personally, I have no problem with women wearing a veil (although I fail to see the point), but burqas and niqab are unacceptable since one wearing these could never integrate into Western society and if that's exactly what you want, you shouldn't be living here. The veil on the other hand is generally accepted.

Well, tonight was a first. I think I was just called a muslim apologist.

Folks, freedom doesn't mean, my way or the highway. Freedom means ackowledging the rights of people even if you don't like or agree with them.

I think burkas are dumb. But I also think bicycle pants on fat people are dumb. And soul patches. Just shave for gods sake!
But I won't make it illegal to have a soul patch. Bicycle pants. . . . maybe.

Originally posted by Maymunah

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
There are many cultural observances which are unacceptable in the West, forced marriage, polygamy, female genital mutilation etc. Why should the Burqua be tolerated?

As a female I cannot and do not accept that a woman should have to hide her feminity due to male insecurity and dominance.

I've been reading the entire thread up to your post and wanted to write some other perspectives and found your post a good place to start.

First of all, wearing the face veil is usually a choice and you will be surprised to know that the majority of women who cover their faces made that decision themselves. Other than Saudi Arabia ( I believe the only country to enforce the veil) most Muslim women are not forced to wear it. I wear the veil and had wanted to since I came to Islam but when I first became married, my husband preferred I did not wear it, over the months I finally talked him into letting me try it, since then I've been wearing for over a year and I love it even though at times it annoys me

I think a better law is the one in Russia, I believe? Where women are not permitted to basically dress over revealing...I mean if a nation is going to start making the choice for how we dress, then make it in the proper way. Is it, or can it be a danger? Sure a man can dress in full Islamic clothing, with face cover and enter a womans bathroom for example, but there is also a danger in a nation implementing dress codes, a danger for the people, think about what comes next? Slowly, like the frogs in boiling water, people are losing their freedom and rights.

My question is why do you want to wear a veil(or a burka), etc. I mean why? People say it's their religion, yet there is no Quranic injunction to do so. The closest thing says not to expose your breasts. I tend to think it's often, though not always, because I believe many just accept it's a religious mandate without knowing different, a way to separate oneself from the normal society, and be "diffierent".

I myself thought of Islam that way when I was looking into it, though I like Sikhism more as a religion, and I wanted to have a big beard and wear a turban, and be "different", and have the idea if a place don't hire me I can sue.

Originally posted by Mdv2

I am aware of the fact that most women choose to wear a veil, not a burqa/niqab, but I'm curious why you want to wear it. Do you feel it makes you a better Muslim? Personally, I have no problem with women wearing a veil (although I fail to see the point), but burqas and niqab are unacceptable since one wearing these could never integrate into Western society and if that's exactly what you want, you shouldn't be living here. The veil on the other hand is generally accepted.

I can't really explain to you why I chose to wear it, I have many reasons I suppose. And I've talked to other women who chose to wear and their reasons aren't the same as mine, so it's just a personal choice. I am American for one, I live in the middle east and when I first came here I stood out like a sore thumb because I have light eyes and am very pale, so for this reason I felt even more inspired to wear alkamil. If and when I go back to the USA, I will not wear it, I understand the western mind and fears over this and quite possibly I could put my own life at risk. Wearing the veil/face cover is disputed as being part of the Islamic womans dress code as it is not mentioned in Quran; but mentioned in Hadith.

You would most likely never see the point of wearing it, as I'm assuming you are male? And not Islamic and not Middle Eastern. In this case you just have to either respect someone else's personal choice or not, that's all.

.
Did you SEE that information up there, folks ?

Did you see where muslims are PAID by the Saudis

to grow beards

and paid to force their wives to wear burkhas ?

Those muslims were LIBERAL ie. moderates

They did not normally wear beards or tent garments

BUT the Saudis give them the equivalent of $500 dollars a month to do so !!


In a place where the average monthly wage is about $2.50 !

NOW do you see how the beards and face veils and minarets and mosques are SYMBOLS of muslim occupation/domination ?

They're not because tent-garments and beards are comfortable or convenient

They're because the Saudis want Westerners to SEE those muslim occupation SYMBOLS
and get USED to seeing them and learn to SUCCUMB to them !

I was travelling by coach from Damascus to Baghdad. When we were inside the Iraqi border, our coach was stopped by masked gunmen who boarded the bus.

Once inside, one of them asked us to show him our passports.


The hijab is being forced upon women at gunpoint. Women have no choice but to comply

I knew that he was looking to check who was Sunni and who was Shia - this can sometimes be obvious from people's surnames.

He asked why I was not wearing the hijab and threatened to kill me if I did not cover up my head.

In fact, I had been wearing the hijab but as it was hot and the coach was dark I felt free to take it off just during the journey.

A Christian Iraqi woman who was travelling with us was also forced to cover her head.

This is what is happening in Iraq where the wearing of the hijab is a recent development.

The hijab is being forced upon women at gunpoint. Women have no choice but to comply.

news.bbc.co.uk...
According to these women it looks like the are ostracized if they don't, it is all about control, I saw how members of certain Christian sects would cave to their relatives demands because they shunned them .

And it keeps coming

Muslim leaders in pay of Saudis

From the Australian newspaper, 2008

SIX Australian-based Muslim clerics who are leaders of the Islamic community in the country are on the payroll of the Saudi Government, receiving allowances of up to $2000 a month.

The Australian can reveal for the first time the identity of the clerics - some paid through the Saudi embassy in Canberra, others directly from Riyadh's Dawah (preaching) Office - who receive between 3500 and 7000 Saudi riyal ($1975) a month.

The payments to the six - who include former Howard government adviser Amin Hady and Melbourne Somali imam Isse Musse - are part of Saudi Arabia's multi-billion-dollar campaign to transform its hardline image in the West.

However, Sheik Hady told The Australian there were as many as 14 others in the country being paid by the Saudis.


Saudi Arabia has pumped more than $120 million into Australia since the 1970s to fund mosques, Islamic groups and clerics to propagate Wahhabism, the puritanical brand of Islam espoused by al-Qa'ida.

The Malaysian and Indonesian governments have also funded Islamic initiatives in Australia.

Sheik Hady defended the allowance he has received since his arrival in Australia more than 25 years ago, saying it came with no strings attached.

"So far, they never tell any of the preachers what to say and what to do," said the Indonesian imam at Zetland Mosque, in Sydney's inner south.

"We are fully independent of what we do ... they never instruct that this is what we should teach and this is what we should not.

"I don't think there is any notion with Wahhabism being imposed by anyone."

He refused to be drawn on how much money he received from the Saudis, but said there were as many as 20 clerics on Riyadh's books. "There are many - there are 15 to 20 people," he said.

While Sheik Hady refused to name others on the Saudi payroll, it is understood that Canberra cleric Mohammad Swaiti - revealed in April last year praising jihadists in a sermon - was being paid by Riyadh.

www.theaustralian.com.au...


It's to be VERY strongly suspected that the money amounts cited in that article are 'understated' at very least, lol. After all, we have a hungry tax department in Australia too

Also, I don't believe a WORD uttered by the muslim clerics above

These are the same guys who attempted to defame the young Australian rape victims mentioned earlier

by stating to his muslim throng AND also to the Australian public on tv, that the girls 'deserved' what they got

Then he retracted it

But when he first said it, the filthy old muslim 'cleric' (they don't receive any training, do they, at all ?) was smirking and grinning from ear to ear