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Russian Diplomat Says 2,000 U.S. Troops Killed in Iraq

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posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 11:25 PM
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2,000 U.S. troops killed in Iraq: Russian expert


MOSCOW, JULY 23. The United States suffers far heavier casualties in Iraq than it officially admits, a Russia military diplomat claimed.

The actual U.S. military losses in Iraq may have reached 2,000 personnel, more than twice the official figure of 900, as Washington badly understates its casualty statistics, a military diplomatic source told the Itar-Tass news agency.

"Official statistics do not include casualties among non-U.S. nationals who sign up to serve in the American armed forces in order to get a U.S. `green card.' According to reliable information the share of non-Americans in the U.S. force in Iraq may be as high as 60 per cent," the source said. "The real number of U.S. losses may be as high as 2,000 casualties and up to 12,000 wounded," the military diplomat said.


Well, this is an Indian newspaper quoting a Russian source. But if this story is true, it is politically radioactive for George Bush.

I have another question maybe someone can answer. Supposedly about 5,000 U.S. soldiers have been wounded, but there have been well over 20,000 medical evacuations from Iraq. My source for this number is "The McLaughlin Group" on PBS, which updates this number every week.

Can someone please explain why over 15,000 soldiers, who have not been wounded, have been medically evacuated from Iraq?




posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 11:29 PM
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Illness and non combat related injuries I would suppose.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by cyberpilot
Illness and non combat related injuries I would suppose.


But these illnesses and injuries would have to be severe enough that the well-equipped military hospitals in Iraq were not equipped to treat them.

Those would have to be pretty severe illnesses and injuries, IMHO.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 11:52 PM
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MOSCOW, JULY 23. The United States suffers far heavier casualties in Iraq than it officially admits, a Russia military diplomat claimed.



notice it says casualties.....not killed.

casualty: One injured, killed, captured, or missing in action through engagement with an enemy

admitted casualties are 6,186 and admitted injured is slightly over 10,000....so obviously noone is hiding anything..


[edit on 25-7-2004 by namehere]



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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Since when do the Russian keep statistics about US military casualties. Furthermore since when did they become a source for reliable information. I would give very little credibility to the story, even less if it was written by the french.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by namehere

MOSCOW, JULY 23. The United States suffers far heavier casualties in Iraq than it officially admits, a Russia military diplomat claimed.



notice it says casualties.....not killed.

casualty: One injured, killed, captured, or missing in action through engagement with an enemy

admitted casualties are 6,186 and admitted injured is slightly over 10,000...The real number of U.S. losses may be as high as 2,000 casualties and up to 12,000 wounded," the military diplomat said. .so obviously noone is hiding anything..


[edit on 25-7-2004 by namehere]


You are correct about the traditional meaning of a casualty. However, that is not the way the term is used in contemporary journalism. Notice the definition of "personnel casualty" from hyperdictionary


Definition: [n] military personnel lost by death or capture


Also notice the quote from the article


"The real number of U.S. losses may be as high as 2,000 casualties and up to 12,000 wounded," the military diplomat said.


This makes it clear that the Russian diplomat doesn't consider wounded to be casualties.

Finally, notice the title of the article, "2,000 U.S. troops killed in Iraq: Russian expert."

Clearly, the Indian journalist considers that casualties means killed.

[edit on 7/26/2004 by donguillermo]



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by sniper068
Since when do the Russian keep statistics about US military casualties. Furthermore since when did they become a source for reliable information. I would give very little credibility to the story, even less if it was written by the french.


The Russian diplomat is making an estimate, not citing statistics. Notice I pointed out that this was an Indian newspaper quoting a Russian source. I am not claiming this is a reliable source, but that doesn't mean the information is false.

A couple of the Russian diplomat's statements should certainly be scrutinized.


"Official statistics do not include casualties among non-U.S. nationals who sign up to serve in the American armed forces in order to get a U.S. `green card.'



According to reliable information the share of non-Americans in the U.S. force in Iraq may be as high as 60 per cent,"



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by sniper068
Since when do the Russian keep statistics about US military casualties. Furthermore since when did they become a source for reliable information. I would give very little credibility to the story, even less if it was written by the french.


russians have always kept close watch on us, as we have of them. we often cite 'true' casualty figures for checnya which are higher than the official russian releases. looks like they're doing the same back at us.

-koji K.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by donguillermo


but official killed and injured numbers total from the US is 16,000, the russian one was only 14,000, so someone in russia is either under counting or just making it up.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:26 AM
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Were going to trust the Russians now our enemies for over 50 years and do these diplomats go out there in the field and count every body or do they just sit in their chairs and think of anything to bash George bush I give this thread and these reports of 2.000 us killed members
thumbs down on credibility.


[edit on 26-7-2004 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by donguillermo

Originally posted by sniper068
Since when do the Russian keep statistics about US military casualties. Furthermore since when did they become a source for reliable information. I would give very little credibility to the story, even less if it was written by the french.


The Russian diplomat is making an estimate, not citing statistics. Notice I pointed out that this was an Indian newspaper quoting a Russian source. I am not claiming this is a reliable source, but that doesn't mean the information is false.

A couple of the Russian diplomat's statements should certainly be scrutinized.


"Official statistics do not include casualties among non-U.S. nationals who sign up to serve in the American armed forces in order to get a U.S. `green card.'



According to reliable information the share of non-Americans in the U.S. force in Iraq may be as high as 60 per cent,"



these facts seem like they would be reasonably easy to verify. taken alone, if true, they would certainly imply that the figure of actual deaths is much higher than reported. i'll do some searching around when i have time.

this is another thread i found (on some other site) with lots of interesting links:

discuss.agonist.org...


-koji K.

[edit on 26-7-2004 by koji_K]



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by namehere

but official killed and injured numbers total from the US is 16,000, the russian one was only 14,000, so someone in russia is either under counting or just making it up.


I don't know where you are getting your numbers, but they are not accurate.


There have been 1,028 coalition deaths, 907 Americans, 61 Britons, six Bulgarians, one Dane, one Dutch, one Estonian, one Hungarian, 19 Italians, one Latvian, six Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and seven Ukrainians, in the war in Iraq as of July 24, 2004 (Graphical breakdown of casualties). The list below is the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen, sailors and Coast Guardsmen whose families have been notified of their deaths by each country's government. At least 5,804 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon. The Pentagon does not report the number of non-hostile wounded. This list is updated regularly.


www.cnn.com...

As the quote says, this list from CNN is updated regularly. The quote is accurate at the time of this posting.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 03:45 AM
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It would seem to me that would be extremely hard for the US gov. to understate the casualties, especially by that much. Most of the soldiers I'd imagine have families, the gov. would have to tell them to keep their loved ones death a secret. Im sure the gov. isnt the only organization in the US keeping count. I dont buy the russians claim. Seems quite impossible.




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