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Anti-Masons...What if?

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posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 03:12 AM
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On another note, it seems the nwo brainwashing in other countries is a lot more obvious. triangles/pyramids everywhere and dancers in full martial law gear p.s. mute it for a better experience lol


edit on 10-4-2011 by thegasface because: pointless comment




posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by felonius
When have the masons EVER said that they were the "saviors of the world"? I have understood that they try to make themselves better thus being better tools for The Almighty.


Yes there are a lot of very charitable Masonic Halls and Masons.....but if one man has millions even billions of dollars and gives another less fortunate man some food to eat then what did he give him but yet another day of agony in his currently pathetic life?

Its one whom lends himself to another unconditionally and without a price to show for it that one can truly breath hope into another that is less fortunate than he.

The Masons do nothing but feed off the less fortunate and throw them crumbs of a very big slice of cake. Of course they think they are better then us, even to the point of selective breeding for their offspring if they can help it. I am not talking about your everyday Mason either because they are small potatoes. I am talking about the elite group of Masons. They keep secrets in dark places but they are being misled and will be judged accordingly.

We all will be judged oneday for the way we lived our life here on earth and can only hope that we will have something to show for it. Its not easy and everyone is expected to make mistakes, its human. It's what we do and how we process those mistakes that will either create us in balance with our creator or simply not.

There was a point in my life that I didn't give a S#$% what his plans were because I am the one that is living right here right now going through all this crap, but then I realized that his plans are far better then any I could dream up on my own so I would be a fool not to get on board with it........he is a loving designer and I can repect and honor that



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 04:07 AM
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reply to post by iLoGiCViZiOnS
 


hahaha, that is the by far one of the most idiotic statements I've ever read about the Freemasons, it is so obvious that you don't know a single thing about freemasonry.

The church also have a lot of money, probably more than the freemasons, and THEY are the ones who are "throwing the crumbs of a larger bread to the poor" and surpressing people's free-will with a self-made twisted religion based on fear which has nothing to do anymore with the originial teachings of Christ....

I say it again, you really don't know a single thing about the Freemasons, you are just saying typical standard anti-Mason things that every christian-fundi is shouting.



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by notimportant
reply to post by iLoGiCViZiOnS
 


hahaha, that is the by far one of the most idiotic statements I've ever read about the Freemasons, it is so obvious that you don't know a single thing about freemasonry.

I say it again, you really don't know a single thing about the Freemasons, you are just saying typical standard anti-Mason things that every christian-fundi is shouting.


What if you are a frightened, young man who wishes only to lash out at others who produce sound arguments to your own hypothetical suggestions? What if the Christians have a reason to question a secret, corrupt order? What if all you are doing is making assumptions and simply saying that nobody knows anything about Freemasonry?

What if the Vatican, once opposed to Freemasonry, no longer has a stake in condemning their silent business partners? I am no Christian, and I say this freely.


What if we can actually trace the money and connect the dots? What if the few of us out here in this wild expanse of Earth do not share religious dogmatic views and can very easily give you a kind nudge? What if the answer has been in front of you the entire time, but your own convoluted perceptions cloud your judgement?

What if?



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 04:40 AM
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What if you didn't have youtube ???

I'm not impressed by some movies from a site which allows "EVERYONE" to upload their crap. Since that youtube website is online, forums and internet are washed over by people who claim that they know everything about: Freemasons, NWO, Illuminati, Religion, The Vatican, The antichrist, the this and the that, the he, she whatever.

I'm a bit sick of it, because it are the same old arguments, ramblings and nonsense over and over again, it is a deadlock situation. People must think for themselves and come up with their own ideas, not with some stupid youtube movie (from someone else) which contains everything I've heard and read over and over again.
edit on 10-4-2011 by notimportant because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-4-2011 by notimportant because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 04:53 AM
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reply to post by notimportant
 


You do realize that's not a sound argument?


Banco Ambrosiano was an Italian bank which collapsed in 1982. At the centre of the bank's failure was its chairman, Roberto Calvi and his membership in the illegal masonic lodge Propaganda Due. Vatican Bank was Banco Ambrosiano's main shareholder, and the death of Pope John Paul I in 1978 is rumoured to be linked to the Ambrosiano scandal, giving one of the subplots of The Godfather Part III. Vatican Bank was also accused of funneling covert United States funds to Solidarity and the Contras through Banco Ambrosiano. en.wikipedia.org...

PROPAGANDA DUE, or P2 MASONIC LODGE:
Propaganda Due, or P2, was a Masonic lodge operating under the jurisdiction of the Grand Orient of Italy from 1945 to 1976 (when its charter was withdrawn), and a pseudo-Masonic or "black" or "covert" lodge operating illegally (in contravention of Italian constitutional laws banning secret lodges, and membership of government officials in secret membership organizations) from 1976 to 1981. During the years that the lodge was headed by Licio Gelli, P2 was implicated in numerous Italian crimes and mysteries, including the nationwide bribe scandal Tangentopoli, the collapse of the Vatican-affiliated Banco Ambrosiano, and the murders of journalist Mino Pecorelli and banker Roberto Calvi. en.wikipedia.org...

ROBERTO CALVI:
Roberto Calvi (13 April 1920 17 June 1982) was an Italian banker dubbed "God's Banker" by the press due to his close association with the Vatican. A native of Milan, Calvi was the chairman of Banco Ambrosiano which collapsed in one of modern Italy's biggest political scandals, and his death in London in June 1982 has been the source of enduring controversy. Calvi's death was ruled as murder after two coroner's inquests and an independent investigation, and, in June 2007, five people were acquitted of his murder after a trial in Rome. Claims have been made that Calvi's death involved the Vatican Bank (Banco Ambrosiano's main shareholder), the Mafia (which may have used Banco Ambrosiano for money laundering), and the Propaganda Due or P2 masonic lodge. en.wikipedia.org...

LICIO GELLI:
Licio Gelli (born April 21, 1919) is an Italian financier, chiefly known for his role in the Banco Ambrosiano scandal. He was revealed in 1981 as being the Venerable Master of the clandestine Masonic lodge Propaganda Due (P2).
en.wikipedia.org...

MORE INFO:
news.bbc.co.uk... www.freemasonrywatch.org... wikicompany.org...:Financial_scandals



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 04:56 AM
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What if you didn't have wikipedia hahaha



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by TheForgottenOnes
it's just a question, what if?
What if you woke up tomorrow, and found out the Freemasons were actually the safekeepers of christian knowledge?

I doubt that, they use religion as a cover to blend in with the rest of the crowd, but first of all they use religion as control mechanism, you see people like them made religion in the first place, and people like them will defend it.

Not talking about what is in the book, in the bible but the habits that have developed from it, the SICK tradition.
For example the crusades, the blood spilling that has been going across the ages , all in the name of sick people, royalities, masonry is included. The teachings of Jesus were not bad at all but they took early christianity and made it a religion out of it, they killed in the name of it, they manipulated in the name of it, sick people.

This was an oportunity for them, use Jesus teachings, make a religion out of it, include books they saw fit, control the people. Jesus takes all the blame for what he has not done, in his name all the killings, all the crusades with the big red cross on the chest of the crusaders.
edit on 10-4-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 05:14 AM
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I personally don't care what so called "secret" information the Mason's have, it is my belief that the higher secrets are not available to standard members anyway, that there is a society within the society and this has been there since the early 19th century. The main secrets were held by the Templers anyway and although people state that the templers later became the masons there is no incontrovertible evidence to back that up.

My issue with masons is the oath they swear upon joining, an oath that puts the allegiance to the Masonic Lodge above everything else. You cant have the prosecutor, the defence, the police commissioner and the judge sitting around together in a masonic lodge discussing a case before a trial and still expect it to be fair... You can't have politicians swearing an oath to the lodge when their loyalties has to be to the populace not a group of cronies

I have nothing against masons per say I think the vast majority are decent hard working people wanting to get on in life, both personally and financially, I just think that anyone going into public office must relinquish and attachments to any secret society for the good of the people they serve, you cannot have dual loyalty



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by crystalbeing
No, the Masons were infiltrated in the 1700's so if that was true a split has long since happened.
And, in fact, such a split DID happen. There's a huge gap between continental Freemasonry, and Masonry as practiced in England and America. There's a French Grand Lodge that allows atheists, allows women to join, and lets their lodges become involved in politics. All three of those aspects go against the traditions that the United Grand Lodge of England holds, as well as those grand lodges recognized as regular by that body.



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Atlantican
If that was the case I don't think Albert Pike would have been acknowledging "Lucifer" as his savior.
He didn't. All quotes Pike made about Lucifer are either part of the Taxil hoax or have been taken out of context from Morals & Dogma.



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS
Yes there are a lot of very charitable Masonic Halls and Masons.....but if one man has millions even billions of dollars and gives another less fortunate man some food to eat then what did he give him but yet another day of agony in his currently pathetic life?
But Masonry doesn't give food to eat. Masonry gives scholarships, so that people can educate themselves and rise above their backgrounds or social conditions. Masonry gives medical treatment to those in need, so that they can lead better lives. And if you actually become a Mason, you learn a system of moral lessons that could allow you to lead a more fulfilling life.



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by PrinceDreamer
My issue with masons is the oath they swear upon joining, an oath that puts the allegiance to the Masonic Lodge above everything else.
You say that, but you should read the actual oath, because it says that family and your community should take more importance in your life than anything in Masonry itself.



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Freemasons will not condemn Albert Pike for his statements, because he is free to worship whoever he wants. That is the beauty of 'Freemasonry, we accept all religions, so long as one believes in "one, everliving God." So, if we condemned Pikes interpretation of that God, then we would have to start choosing between God, Jesus, Allah, YHWH, etc., etc.

Masonry is a system of morality. It exists outside the bounds of any particular religion, but in fact it inculcates the better parts of all the religions.

Here is a thread I posted with a little discussion.

Also this thread produced a GREAT discussion!


It’s been said that human happiness comes from the smallest of improvements so that he who can affect positive change even by a simple kindness adds wealth to the common stock of humanity.



We use tools of measurement because Freemasonry believes a man’s greatness can be measured. Not by his wealth or fame, but by his deeds, his character, his truth, his tolerance, his charity, his trust, his friendship, his love for his fellow creatures.



Now…as to the great secret of Freemasonry, it is actually found in the unconscious of each person. It is discovered by each individual for himself. Mason or not; as he comes to know himself, and finds the road that takes him to his city. Because the real secret of Freemasonry is finding out who you are.





posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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bump

Mod Edit: Please spam with 1-liners. Review this link.
edit on 10-4-2011 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Anyone who knows even BASIC Freemason history knows about the various divisions in the Craft. The early history of Freemasonry till the formation in Scotland... the English... The Regius Manuscript? The Cooke Manuscript? The formation of Grand Lodges, then the Antient Grand Lodge till 1813 with the formation of the United Grand Lodge of England.

Meanwhile... The Craft was in other countries as well... developing on various threads... The Catholic church played it's part... even in executing masons etc. What of the York Rite? The Scottish Rite? Again.... France and America needs be considered... Freemasonry spread around the world, but Anglo Freemasonry is one thing and Continental Freemasonry another.

Then what of the Jacobites and Catholic and Protestant politics? The Grand Orient de France was and is a Major Player.... Notice the french Revolution had the mobs in the streets, crying Libertie! Egalitie! Fraternitie! That = French Masonry's MOTTO. Joseph Guillotine, inventor of the sharp execution "machine", the Guillotine = a MASON. The French Grand Lodge began to admit not only Atheist ( which was NEVER Masonic ) but also admited women. The entire Masonic world held and holds to this day The French Grand Orient de France "unrecognized". Lodges in the Masonic world are NOT recognized if they admit women or atheist.

The U.S. history I'll leave up to everyone to fill in or learn about.... Let alone the Lodges and Freemasonry around the globe. As well there's the Rosicrucian histories, and "other" groups.

To consider the P2 Lodge as a representative of Freemasonry isn't accurate. P2, which has been reformed under another P#, has more connection with the OSS/CIA and the Vatican Ratlines and Gladio, then to Freemasonry. P2 was a "Secret Lodge" ( As secret as most CIA ops, till they get exposed )

So the research and investigation of this topic is a brilliant endeavor. But it requires many "little things" and history to have at least some background? That is NOT achieved with a Google and Wikipedia education. Such sources are barely supplemental in a comprehensive work. I understand some are not THAT interested in the subject... lol Fair Enough! But if one finds they ARE interested in seeking to learn all they can, then Google and Wikipedia will NOT take them as far as they desire.

The foundation of the United States was Freemasonry as one of the cornerstones. Six Presidents from Washington to George H W Bush have been sworn into office using a Bible from St. John's Lodge No.1 ( Masonic Lodge )

As mentioned.. The founding and formation of The United States involved THESE groups... Not ONLY Freemasonry, but Rosicrucian influences... The philosophies of the times... from the Age of Reason to the Age of Enlightenment was DIRECTLY affected by these groups. Just because most schools NEVER teach comprehensive history to students, by the millions... This IS History.

Da Vinci, Bacon, Newton, Beethoven on and on... Rosicrucian

I am NOT suggesting Dan Brown has much to say or is a "source" in such matters... That would be ONLY entertainment and fiction wrapped around historic garments. The Da Vinci Code ( even though a court held Brown innocent ) was outright taken from "real" research that can be found in the likes of Holy Blood, Holy Grail by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh. Brown just wrapped the research in a FICTIONAL story.

Such investigations and research has long been going on... even before Holy Blood, Holy Grail in which the authors followed the thread that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had children = Holy Bloodline... Others have long searched a thread that Joseph and Mary ( Mother Of God ) had Children after Jesus ( His brother and sister etc ) and THAT is the Holy Bloodline. But in a world of Google and Wiki and Brilliant Dan Brown fiction.... this isn't often considered.

This Thread and the questions by the OP is brilliant. After all, the very foundation of the United States of America ( and the French Revolution, which got severely out of hand ) was laid with the likes of Freemasons endeavoring to do a Great Work... Magnum Opus

And the questions of IF can offer people a place to consider that what Freemasons have done in history and yes.. in the United States, can be considered.
edit on 2011/4/10 by Serafine because: error



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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To consider the P2 Lodge as a representative of Freemasonry isn't accurate. P2, which has been reformed under another P#, has more connection with the OSS/CIA and the Vatican Ratlines and Gladio, then to Freemasonry. P2 was a "Secret Lodge" ( As secret as most CIA ops, till they get exposed )

Propaganda due was an official lodge, stop distorting facts. If the lodge later got discharged from masonry based on different reasons, like in the benefit of masonry that is another story. It's normal to rule it out so it won't affect
the image of the fraternity, cover it fast and state ...it's not part of us.
edit on 10-4-2011 by pepsi78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by thegasface
 


I think that's what them stars are for, but I think they should also have a dislike option, or a disagree option.



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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the mazons are a kabbalstik cult. they worship soloman and so many of their symbols are based on chozen symbolism and beliefs.

its a scam to covertly convert people to join the sons of soloman.

albert pike, the most 'celebrated' mazon was a sociopathic racist scumbag who demanded three world wars from his followers.

so no, they are not trying to save the world, other than to save the world for the elitists.

i already live in a chozen controled world in america, where all our 'ideals' are based upon CHOZEN ideals. i am sick of war, ethnocentrism, elitism, and usury.



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by pepsi78
 



Originally posted by Serafine

To consider the P2 Lodge as a representative of Freemasonry isn't accurate. P2, which has been reformed under another P#, has more connection with the OSS/CIA and the Vatican Ratlines and Gladio, then to Freemasonry. P2 was a "Secret Lodge" ( As secret as most CIA ops, till they get exposed )



Originally posted by pepsi78

Propaganda due was an official lodge, stop distorting facts. If the lodge later got discharged from masonry based on different reasons, like in the benefit of masonry that is another story. It's normal to rule it out so it won't affect
the image of the fraternity, cover it fast and state ...it's not part of us.


Notice the "secret Lodge" ( I didn't claim they weren't a lodge ) .... and pepsi78, you IGNORED the rest of my statement. The OSS and CIA, Vatican Ratlines and Gladio connections. The Lodge was directly connected with these OTHER influences. P2 was a CIA front and I wonder why you ignore that.






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