It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Did William Greer Shoot Kennedy?

page: 9
<< 6  7  8   >>

log in


posted on Jun, 29 2012 @ 07:30 AM
reply to post by cultureoftruth

Good call on the brake light!!

Although I do not agree with you on Greer taking the headshot, the Nix film in your post does offer proof the Zapruder film was edited.

Notice how quickly Clint Hill gets to Jackie and appears to get his arms around her to guide her back to her seat. In the existing Zapruder film, Clint Hill touches only touches her arm and is still standing on the rear bumper of the limo as it exits Deally Plaza.

You can see what you want in the Zapruder film but there is no truths to be found in it. It's a total fabrication which in the end caused the distance of the headshot to be changed from its original 307 feet back to 265 feet to cover up frames which were removed. In January 1964 an FBI Report stated the fatal headshot came at frame 358 or 307 feet.

The Twilight Zone

edit on 29-6-2012 by Oldnslo because: Spelling

posted on Jun, 30 2012 @ 09:58 AM
Pat Speer's long winded but did identify the only apparent bullet fragment recovered at autopsy in two different x-rays. Greer, Kellerman, and Dr. Humes (the autopsy report) acknowledged this fragment where Greer's shot entered, above the right eyebrow. I'M GLAD OLDNSLO admits that nix proves Z was altered because his real arm/hand did extend over with the headshot, not at face level, but at shoulder height.

The autopsy x-rays contain additional evidence of a frontal shot. Wound ballistics expert Dr. Larry Sturdivan told the HSCA that if an exploding or frangible bullet had struck the skull, it "definitely" would have left a cloud of metal fragments close to the point of entrance:
Mr. MATHEWS. Mr. Sturdivan, taking a look at JFK exhibit F-53, which is an X-ray of President Kennedy's skull, can you give us your opinion as to whether the President may have been hit with an exploding bullet?
Mr. STURDIVAN. . . . In those cases, you would definitely have seen a cloud of metallic fragments very near the entrance wound. (1 HSCA 401)
Dr. Sturdivan was seemingly unaware of the fact that on the unenhanced autopsy x-rays, a cloud of fragments is visible in the right frontal region, which would indicate that a frangible bullet struck in that area. Apparently Dr. Sturdivan only examined the enhanced x-rays and not the original x-rays. Historian Dr. Michael Kurtz comments on Dr. Sturdivan's testimony:

Sturvidan also stated that Kennedy was not struck in the front of the head by an exploding bullet fired from the grassy knoll. The reason, Sturdivan declared, was that the computer-enhanced x-rays of Kennedy's skull do not depict "a cloud of metallic fragments very near the entrance wound." In cases where exploding bullets impact, he asserted that "you would definitely have seen" such a cloud of fragments in the x-ray. Sturdivan's remarks betrayed both his own ignorance of the medical evidence and the committee's careful manipulation of that evidence. Sturdivan saw only the computer-enhanced x-ray of the skull, not the original, unretouched x-rays. Had he seen the originals, he would have observed a cloud of metallic fragments clustered in the right front portion of the head. Furthermore, the close-up photograph of the margins of the large wound in the head shows numerous small fragments. The Forensic Pathology Panel itself noted the presence of "missile dust" near the wound in the front of the head. One of the expert radiologists who examined the x-rays noticed "a linear alignment of tiny metallic fragments" located in the "posterior aspect of the right frontal bone.

" The chief autopsy pathologist, Dr. James J. Humes, remarked about the numerous metallic fragments like grains of sand scattered near the front head wound. The medical evidence, then, definitely proves the existence of a cloud of fragments in the right front portion of Kennedy's head, convincing evidence, according to Sturdivan, that an exploding bullet actually did strike the president there.

edit on 30-6-2012 by cultureoftruth because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-6-2012 by cultureoftruth because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 10 2012 @ 10:06 PM
New to the forum here, but thought I'd join the debate about whether Greer shot Kennedy. A couple of (hopefully) brief points. First, even though it's been perhaps a year ago now, someone early on in the thread had stated that Kellerman never turned around to look at Kennedy. It's necessary to see the Zapruder film in its entirety in order to see it, but Kellerman does in fact turn and look over his left shoulder shortly after both Kennedy and Connally have been shot.

Afraid I don't have links ready to go to support this, so I apologize for that, but any full-length video of the Zapruder film, such as on Youtube, will clearly show Kellerman turning to look behind him, I believe right around frame 260, or about two seconds after Kennedy and Connally were both shot.

On Greer.....a previous poster, or perhaps more than one previous poster, has suggested that the Nix film clearly shows Greer's left arm coming up over his right shoulder at the moment of the fatal head shot, thereby helping to prove that Greer did shoot Kennedy. With all due respect, I have to disagree with this.

First of all, and again with all due respect, the quality of the image used to support that claim is incredibly poor. There are much clearer versions of the Nix film available, including at least one that I've seen that includes a slow motion close-up of Greer and Kellerman. It's my opinion that comparing slow motion videos of the Nix film with good quality versions of the Zapruder film will show that the arm seen moving in the Nix film is in fact Roy Kellerman's left arm moving down from the side of his head, just an instant before the fatal shot. This motion matches exactly with what we see Kellerman's left arm doing in the Zapruder film.

As seen in Zapruder, Kellerman raises his left arm up to, apparently, his left ear, around frame 300 or so, and lowers it again by frame 309 or 310. The head-shot, of course, is seen at 313.

By comparing what we see Kellerman doing in the Zapruder film with good quality versions of the Nix film, we can see this very same arm motion taking place a fraction of a second before the fatal head shot. In both films, the arm belongs to Roy Kellerman, and not William Greer.

In short, this to me is pretty clear proof, if anymore is needed, that Greer did not shoot Kennedy or anyone else. For that matter, neither did Kellerman.

Again, I apologize for not having any image or video links ready to go. But, they should be fairly easy to track down on Youtube, for anyone interested in comparing the Nix and Zapruder films.

posted on Sep, 14 2012 @ 05:17 AM
I didn't read through the thread to notice if anyone has the same belief as me on this (I'm sure at least SOME do who believe in the plot to kill Kennedy), but I really just wanted to give my take/thoughts on the driver.

First and foremost, to get this out of the way immediately: The driver was in on the assassination plot, pure and simple. He was part of the group who made sure Kennedy died that day, and really....he's the most important piece on the chessboard aside from the King who's about to be mated.

What is the job of the Presidential Motorcade Driver, eh? To drive first of all, but more specifically: he's to AT NO TIME drive below a certain speed, (I believe I read it was 25 mile per hour), and if he hears ANYTHING out of the ordinary (like.....oh, say.....gunshots), he is to step on the gas and get out of there as fast as possible.

Now, let us think about this. Gov. Connelly has said since the beginning that he heard the 1st, 2nd and a 3rd shot, and I think at times he's even said he heard a 4th. And he even points out durring a commentary on the Zep film, the points at which he starts hearing the shots. Other people in that car, and in the surrounding area all say they heard shots. It doesn't even matter where they're from, all that matters is people were hearing shots being fired. So that driver is hearing shots being fired.

To take this train of thought further, at the time in the Zap film people start hearing shots, a couple seconds later, by which point that driver should already be flooring the gas, what do we see this ASSHOLE doing (the driver, and sorry mods, but seriously)? HE'S SLOWING DOWN !!!!! In fact this jerk-off is hitting the brakes !!! (because they're going downhill yet still rapidly slowing down)

And this piece of filth, after slowing down to a near complete stop.......did not pull out a gun and shoot Kennedy (the "gun" is the reflection of the pasenger's greased hair)......but what he did do, as the analysis in the OP clearly he turned around, looked directly at Kennedy, and did not make another move until he saw that wonderfull Man's head get blown off. Only then, after he was sure Kennedy was dead, did he finally look forward, punched the gas, and got the President's dying body out of the killzone as fast as he possibly could.

The driver was in on the whole thing, and I've thought that since I was 10 years old which was when I first saw the Zap film. It was obvious to a 10 year old boy who never even heard about the conspiracy yet that the driver slowed down and was looking at Kennedy until the second he was dead. He even checks a couple times before the deadly shot. This was obvious to me at 10 years old yet this driver was never even questioned in the "investigation". Unbelievable.

posted on Sep, 15 2012 @ 09:57 PM
reply to post by Larry L

Actually Greer was questioned during the investigation. He made a report shortly after the assassination, and later testified before the Warren Commission.

Here's a link to a transcribed copy of his original report, as found on the jfkassassination web site....

And a transcribed copy of his WC testimony, from the same web site....

In both his original report and in his testimony, Greer says that he took what was apparently the first shot as a backfire from one of the escorting police motorcycles. He was not alone in not recognizing the first shot as a shot, as this seems to have been the case with quite a few witnesses in the plaza that day. Based on the Zapruder film, it's possible that Kennedy himself heard the shot, but wasn't sure what it was. The evidence for that is inconclusive, but it's possible.

Greer later states, again in both the report and his WC testimony, that he turned around after hearing the second shot, and saw that something was wrong with Governor Connally. He says in his WC testimony that he never saw the president. Only the governor.

He's been called a liar for that, but a close examination of the Zapruder film suggests he may very well have been telling the truth. There is simply no way to know for sure what he saw when he turned around, but what we do know from the Zapruder film is that Governor Connally was not only between him and the president, but quite possibly blocked his view of the president.

Even had he been able to see past the governor into the back seat, he still may not have been able to see the president due to Mrs. Kennedy, who was leaning forward and over toward her husband at that moment, and may also have blocked Greer's view of the president.

We don't know any of this for sure. We have no verifiable proof that Greer could or could not see Kennedy. We do have legitimate reasons to say that the possibility exists that he did not see Kennedy, as he later claimed. But as with whether Kennedy heard the first shot, we can't say for sure one way or the other.

Greer also indicates in his testimony that the speed of the car remained a steady 12 - 15 mph during the shooting sequence, thereby implying that he did not hit the brakes and that the car did not slow down. This is demonstrably false as seen in any of the videos showing the moment of the fatal head shot. The limo did in fact slow down between the second and third shots.

Whether Greer did not remember this, did not realize it had happened for some reason, or was simply covering up, we can't know for sure. But, my own wild guess is that he knew he had done it, but was mortified about it to the point that he could not bring himself to admit it.

It's possible the enormous shock of what had happened caused him not to remember slowing the limo - Jackie Kennedy had no memory of climbing onto the trunk of the car, but she obviously did so - but personally, I believe he did remember, but couldn't bring himself to own up to that fact. Reason being, in my opinion, he realized too late that he had responded inappropriately.

We can certainly say that he should have reacted differently, but that's a far cry from saying he was in on the assassination. There's just no proof of this. Greer already gets skewered for the way he responded during those crucial few seconds of the shooting. To me at least, that's punishment enough.

posted on Oct, 7 2012 @ 04:14 PM
I slowed down the first gif that clearly shows the hole opening and closing between 316-317. That kills it right there but there's more, from none other than Stone's Jfk movie. I just looked and noticed the gape clearly in frame 319. The open gape and closing of the hole in the movie appear to be between 319-320.
Zapruder Frames - Costella Combined Edit

posted on Oct, 14 2012 @ 02:58 PM
[quote='LoP Guest' pid='1678731' dateline='1313783066']
Greer shooting JFK is a valid theory. He sure as hell brings his left hand up, over the right shoulder while looking back and POP there goes the skullshot in perfect synch. That would be one hell of a coincidence to explain away. What better assassin to employ than the SS? And that fits the definition of "Gonzo" - doing something so openly and blatantly horrific that nobody would dare think it is even possible. Perfect way to take out the president with all the sniper shots going off to confuse witnesses. I don't think that the planners would rely on a shot of many dozens of meters if they could find another way. . . Like a point blank headshot from the driver.

Very few people on the boards were willing to state the obvious because it's so easy to see who did it once someone pointed it out. It's politically incorrect to place blame on Government when the evidence is so direct and conclusive.

It's as simple as showing Greer's left arm really extended over with the headshot and the absurdity of the fake hand in Zapruder. The whole limo jolts upward in unison with the headshot.

posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 11:27 AM
Just thought I'd post this original footage of when they aired the JFK tape on TV for the first time.

posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 09:36 AM
I am convinced that Greer did shoot Kennedy. Why else even bother tampering with the Zapruder film? The only thing that tampering with the film would hide is something inside the limo and everyone agrees it has been tampered with. It also clears up why the car stops in the kill zone, why Jackie tries to jump out the back of the car, and how the exit wound is in the back of JFK's head. It's the perfect crime because the secret service took everything into evidence immediately.

The conversation that went on inside the limo between Greer, Kellerman, and Jackie after the limo sped off and before it arrived at the hospital was probably extremely interesting.

posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:18 AM

Originally posted by broctune
I am convinced that Greer did shoot Kennedy. Why else even bother tampering with the Zapruder film? The only thing that tampering with the film would hide is something inside the limo and everyone agrees it has been tampered with. It also clears up why the car stops in the kill zone, why Jackie tries to jump out the back of the car, and how the exit wound is in the back of JFK's head. It's the perfect crime because the secret service took everything into evidence immediately.

The conversation that went on inside the limo between Greer, Kellerman, and Jackie after the limo sped off and before it arrived at the hospital was probably extremely interesting.

I've often thought that the people in the car at least knew about it... but I have seriously considered that someone in the car shot him.

This case will always be one of the most fascinating conspiracies I think... too many weird things, from security called off to removal of brain... and all manner of other things, make this case just addictive.

posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 07:13 AM
Culture of truth has this spot on .I've heard the Roy Kellerman distraction before -ie that he is moving his arm with the microphone and that is what we are seeing.Well Kellerman is actually doing that at that time, but clearly it is Greer who we see moving his left arm in front of his body with the gun to shhot the President.If you look at Greer's collar, you can see that movement must be Greer's, not Kellerman's.
Wiliam Greer shot Jfk.
However he also shot Connally, who was turned around almost fascing JFK when he was shot.One of the motorcycle cops saw Connally react when the bullet hit him.Get a good copy of the Zapruder film.You will then understand why Connally was hit on the right wrist-it was because it was up at the right side of his chest at the time Greer shot him thru panic.

posted on Jul, 24 2013 @ 11:54 AM
Killing John F. Kennedy was most certainly at the front of that very telling statement.

posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 11:48 AM
reply to post by SLAYER69

DELETED POST: Irrelavent Content
edit on 12-11-2013 by esteay812 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 04:46 PM
reply to post by PTodd

Coming up to the 50th anniversary of the slaying of President Kennedy, and,having just come across your post, I feel obliged to reply to your post on behalf of, I hope, Culure of Truth, no longer with us on this forum.

You are critical of the "quality of the enhanced Nix film shown here.

Firstly,and with respect, you really have to understand that as with any magnified image, the quality drops off.

However that does not imply that the image is of any less importance.

You believe that the movement of Greer's left arm is in fact Roy Kellerman's. A close examination of the Zapruder film does indeed show Kellerman making a movement at the exact time Greer's left arm comes over his front.

However what you seem oblivious to is the interaction between Greer's jacket and shirt. Thus the reason we KNOW it to be Greer's is quite simply that Greer's dark jacket is seen to partially cover the front of his shirt collar.
As Kellerman sat to the right of Greer, it would have been impossible for this.

Quite simply and unequivocally-and with respect-there is no doubt that your conclusion that it may have been Kellerman-is incorrect.

posted on Oct, 28 2017 @ 04:10 PM
The order to assassinate Kennedy came from European spooks at the time. They desperately wanted to defuse Kennedy's promises to the american people to build a strong and rich middle class. Moreover the Eropeans wanted to push for global domination by destroying the US in an infinite war against the USSR in Indo-China and the far east.

posted on Jun, 22 2018 @ 08:52 PM
a reply to: Flanker86

LOL WTF? No, it did not. I don't know where you got that crazy BS but it's silly as hell. Israel was behind it. The whole thing stemmed from the Dimona Nuclear facility, or rather it's true purpose, which Israel was trying to hide. Good lord.

Here's a link to real research with official government notes, not stupid opinions based on youtube videos and conspiracy sites.

Also, Oswald had nothing to do with killing Kennedy. The Nix film and Moorman photo show the 2 shooters in the pergola, behind Zapruder.

edit on 22-6-2018 by izzraul because: misspelling

edit on 22-6-2018 by izzraul because: (no reason given)

top topics

<< 6  7  8   >>

log in