The JFK Assassination, An Analysis: Did William Greer Shoot Kennedy?

Originally posted by cahlmac
Excellent thread,. This is definetly one of my favorite subjects on here and I think the way you have broken this particular theory down pretty much shows that Greer could not have killed Kennedy. In my opinion this was a far-out scenario which, once the Zapruder film was examined in detail as you have done here, held no water.

Agreed, It's become one of my favorite topics on here too, admittedly. I spend a lot of time researching it most days now anyway.

And thanks, I tried to show the 2 scenarios constantly brought up by believers of this theory and give my thoughts into why they can't be right. I hope It worked as I really think this is one of the more ridiculous theories to come out of this entire case.

After all, don't people realize that this was the president? In his motorcade?? All eyes would and were on him at this time. Completely ignoring all video evidence, as well as witnesses statements of where the shots really come from, we're still left with the question of wouldn't someone have noticed the driver turn round and fire a bullet? Especially Connelly whom was in between them, lol.

I think we would have but nobody mentioned it. Because It simply didn't happen.

The theory has only seemingly become a theory because the video that we previously had wasn't in great detail, and It caused certain illusions to appear. A problem not faced anymore. With modern advancements this theory really should be left behind, IMHO.

There were definetly a team of shooters working that day and although the whole truth may never emerge about it, at least by breaking down different scenarios we may get a little closer to it.

I agree with that to be honest. I'll try and show who I believe were those shooters with some future threads as well.

The truth may never come about, but we'll still never stop searching for it.

Looking forward to the rest of the threads on this from you, and I for one don't think I'll be bored with them.

lol, I'm sure you'll grow to become bored with them. I have a lot of different areas I'd like to take a deeper look into and post a thread about.

Originally posted by randyvs
I already knew all of this.

Now I want someone to tell me, why a secret service agent, who is riding shot gun in the presidents limo, decided to wear ear plugs that day ? I don't suppose kellermen killerman however you spell the idiots name
got fired for say, lack of interest ? I'll just refer to him as the idiot from now on because he sits there like a ride share dummy. In fact a test dummy would have at least stood the chance of blowing out of the front seat. There by saving the president. Theres no damn way the idiot was ever going back there. He wouldn't even turn around to get the gory details.

Total idiot.

edit on 10-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Or maybe not.

edit on 10-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Ok, maybe It's just me but I didn't understand a single word you mentioned here. Can you clarify?

I mean, since when did Kellerman wear earplugs? Why is he an idiot for not looking back (when he clearly jumps forward and ducks)? And so on. You're not making much sense

reply to post by Ginga


Yeah, It seems people are wising up to it. Or have been over the years anyway. But there's still quite a lot of people who believe in this theory which is why I wished to bring a thread forth about it.

Looking forward to your other threads on this subject

Thanks.

Next thread is on Jackie Kennedy, then I can move onto the more important figures like Oswald and Files.

Originally posted by Rising Against

Originally posted by randyvs
I already knew all of this.

Now I want someone to tell me, why a secret service agent, who is riding shot gun in the presidents limo, decided to wear ear plugs that day ? I don't suppose kellermen killerman however you spell the idiots name
got fired for say, lack of interest ? I'll just refer to him as the idiot from now on because he sits there like a ride share dummy. In fact a test dummy would have at least stood the chance of blowing out of the front seat. There by saving the president. Theres no damn way the idiot was ever going back there. He wouldn't even turn around to get the gory details.

Total idiot.

edit on 10-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Or maybe not.

edit on 10-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Ok, maybe It's just me but I didn't understand a single word you mentioned here. Can you clarify?

I mean, since when did Kellerman wear earplugs? Why is he an idiot for not looking back (when he clearly jumps forward and ducks)? And so on. You're not making much sense

Man... Ok How could I know he was wearing ear plugs ? Toss that out. It's a tad vague but you just mentioned all eyes were on the president. Well I beg to differ. It's common knowledge the driver slowed the vehicle just before the fatal shot. So did they actually duck ? Who knows ? So out with being vague.

Why didn't the idiot turn to see what was up like the driver did at the sound of gunfire. With Connelly already hit
and at that point yelling his famous line " My God their going to kill us all" ! You can't possibly tell me the idiot
with his eyes front is doing a great job ? Secret Service- President- open motorcade. That's why I said it looks like he wore ear plugs. He didn't react to the gunfire. Because he expected it.

SnF for your thread by the way. This is all me.

reply to post by randyvs

It's a tad vague but you just mentioned all eyes were on the president. Well I beg to differ.

"All eyes were on the president" is an obvious reference to the witnesses. I used it to make a point about how nobody saw William Greer shoot a gun even though all witnesses were there in the first place to see the president, situated a couple of feet away from Greer at the time of the shooting. Thus all witnesses looking in the general direction of Greer also.

And again. Nobody saw Greer shoot a weapon.

It's common knowledge the driver slowed the vehicle just before the fatal shot. So did they actually duck ? Who knows ? So out with being vague.

And I know It's common knowledge he (Greer) slowed down. In fact, I mentioned this very thing in a previous post in this very thread.

Btw, Kellerman ducked after the fatal shot struck Kennedy. Please see the frames from my OP.

Why didn't the idiot turn to see what was up like the driver did at the sound of gunfire.

Because none of the shots fired sounded like gunshots. The witnesses report something resembling a firecracker noise instead. It was only the fatal shots that sounded like actual shots It seems.

Sure Connelly was shouting which is probably why Greer turned around but just because Kellerman didn't look around at this time, that doesn't mean he was in on anything. Or expected shots.

You can't possibly tell me the idiot
with his eyes front is doing a great job ?

When did I say this?

That's why I said it looks like he wore ear plugs. He didn't react to the gunfire. Because he expected it.

He ducked after the fatal shots struck, remember? That seems like a reaction to me. And we don't know what he did after the car sped out of Dealey Plaza. For all we know, he was facing Kennedy the entire way to the hospital. But we don't know.

reply to post by Rising Against


Well we have a big difference of opinion. If you don't think, the idiot should have turned, to see what the hell, was going on at that instant. It';s an absolute natural reaction just to look and see why the driver turned to look. At the slightest backfire with your president riding in an open motorcade ? I say it looks exactly like he knew what was up. The only reason the driver turned was to see if the job was done. So he could play out his part. The passenger ? 0% interest. That being the extent of his assignment. In fact to see it any other way is akin
to the warren report. Do you understand his job is to protect the president? Are you really looking into this with an open mind? No reaction ? When people and a family of three are hitting the deck on the grassy knoll ?
It's pretty obvious they knew the hit was on. But the test dummy idiot kellermen ? Are you even awake?
I fully expected you to say something like," You know I hadn't thought of that. Why dosn't he react" ?
Instead it's the same B.S. the government shells out.

As for Bill Greer. One look at the photo you've provided, he didn't do it. I figure I'd give you some ammo against me personally. And say that he just dosn't look like a murderer.

reply to post by randyvs

If you don't think, the idiot should have turned, to see what the hell, was going on at that instant. It';s an absolute natural reaction just to look and see why the driver turned to look.

Again, you say things which are not true. I didn't say Kellerman (not the idiot, but Kellerman) shouldn't have turned around.

And see the frames I provided. He was looking roughly in a downwards direction, then straight ahead (at which point the only noises that could be heard sounded nothing like a gunshot). He wasn't even looking at Greer. For all we know, something caught his eye, but guess what? We just don't know. We can only speculate.

Then when the fatal shot struck, he ducked. All this in the space of 20 frames as well. And again, for all we know, he turned around just before or after exiting Dealey Plaza.

I say it looks exactly like he knew what was up. The only reason the driver turned was to see if the job was done.

Interesting theory. Feel free to try and back it up like I'm trying to back up my theories with this thread.

Personally, I don't feel Kellerman or Greer could have been involved. If they were, I don't think they'd be alive today as others already have realized.

Do you understand his job is to protect the president? Are you really looking into this with an open mind? No reaction ?

He did react. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Just because he didn't react in the way you would have suspected, that doesn't mean he was in on anything. You wasn't there, remember?

When people and a family of three are hitting the deck on the grassy knoll ? It's pretty obvious they knew the hit was on. But the test dummy idiot kellermen ? Are you even awake?

Yes, after the fatal shot had been struck (at which point Kellerman ducked) the family did "hit the deck." Correct.

And yes, I am awake. You need to unfortunately re-check your facts though. ( Please read my above comment)

I fully expected you to say something like," You know I hadn't thought of that. Why dosn't he react" ?
Instead it's the same B.S. the government shells out.

Again, basing your arguments on what you would expect people to do. It's Interesting approach, for sure.

And how is this in anyway what the government would shell out? lol
I imagine this topic would be the complete opposite of what the government would wish to discus,

Anyway Randy, It's nothing personal, relax. But If I have a difference of opinion, please know that I'm going to share it.

reply to post by Rising Against


All I'm say'in is that everything those two bozos do in that car at those crucial moments? Fits perfectly for them being implicated. The driver slowing to make Kennedy a sitting duck. I've watched the film a billion times ( might as well be ) and nowhere does the passenger turn
to see what is going on with his president, before they go under the bridge. Not that any of that is proof that can be used. You say the shots sounded like lady finger firecrackers. How is it you can say that? Were you there?
Since when do gun shots sound like firecrakers to someone trained to know the difference. What the hell ? Did they have the stereo cranked ? Maybe Kellerman leaned forward to turn down the radio? I respect the work you've put into your thread. That's why I SnF'd it. But man.

This is my most all time passionate subject you can't ask me to relax!


I do respect your opinion though. I will try to show that.


Just so you know, who you're involved with at the moment. I'm someone who would jump at the chance to go back in time and wrap his entire body around the presidents head just to save his azz. You want me to relax. ?

reply to post by randyvs

The driver slowing to make Kennedy a sitting duck.

He did slow down. I agree. And upon hearing any kind of vaguely loud noise, the course of action shouldn't have been to carry on at the current speed in which they were traveling. It should have been to speed up.

You say the shots sounded like lady finger firecrackers. How is it you can say that? Were you there?
Since when do gun shots sound like firecrakers to someone trained to know the difference. What the hell ?

Well, here's exactly what I said first of all: "The witnesses report something resembling a firecracker noise instead."

And, no I wasn't there, but I can still gather an opinion of what the shots sounded like from those that were there. And many witnesses report this sound as opposed to a gun in regards to the first flurry of shots (don't forget that upon firstly hearing a sound resembling a genuine gunshot, Greer sped up and got out of there... fast).

It's also possible that the shots were being used under some kind of silencer as well (one which caused the guns to malfunction, cause this noise and in some instances, completely miss the target. One of the reasons why Kennedy has a strike to his throat and also why some people report seeing sparks come off the ground at certain times too. It was from a bullet. I'll show this and attempt to prove it to a degree in a future thread too.)

This is my most all time passionate subject

Ditto.

reply to post by Rising Against

And, no I wasn't there, but I can still gather an opinion of what the shots sounded like from those that were there. And many witnesses report this sound as opposed to a gun in regards to the first flurry of shots (don't forget that upon firstly hearing a sound resembling a genuine gunshot, Greer sped up and got out of there... fast).

And that's all I was doing. Realising that nothing I was saying was proof. Just a very well formed opinion gathered
by my faith in my own knowledge, of what a normal human reaction should have been. With all the available varibles considered. They are there to do a job that for me, is at the very least an absolute epic fail. That is at the very least worthy of a noteable reprimand. A reprimand that could be researched ? If there was any ? The Secret
Service confiscated this film. Their superiors didn't question any of this ? More fuel to the fire. And that's why this
will never go away. Nor ever be answered. But then Congress did come to a different conclusion, didn't they?
One far different from the warren report. I'm sure you know.

reply to post by randyvs

But then Congress did come to a different conclusion, didn't they?
One far different from the warren report. I'm sure you know.

The House Select Committee on Assassinations, Spearheaded by Jim Garrison, came to some vastly different conclusions, yes.

Please see this link:

The Conclusion of the House Select Committee on Assassinations:

President John F. Kennedy

The Findings:

The committee found that, to be precise and loyal to the facts it established, it was compelled to find that President Kennedy was probably killed as a result of a conspiracy. The committee's finding that President Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy was premised on four factors:

1) Since the Warren Commission's and FBI's investigation into the possibility of a conspiracy was seriously flawed, their failure to develop evidence of a conspiracy could not be given independent weight.

2) The Warren Commission was, in fact, incorrect in concluding that Oswald and Ruby had no significant associations, and therefore its finding of no conspiracy was not reliable.

3) While it cannot be inferred from the significant associations of Oswald and Ruby that any of the major groups examined by the committee were involved in the assassination, a more limited conspiracy could not be ruled out.

4) There was a high probability that a second gunman, in fact, fired at the President. At the same time, the committee candidly stated, in expressing its finding of conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination, that it was "unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy."

Bullet entry from behind, JFK leans forward, Jackie inspects him, and then the shot to the head, she gets the hell out of there, the poor woman, so i don't think Greer did it!

Can't wait for the rest of your analysis OP S&F

reply to post by longwinter

Can't wait for the rest of your analysis OP S&F

Thanks.

Next stop, Jackie Kennedy (Whom I personally don't believe could have been responsible). Then I can move onto the Oswalds, and the James E Files' and so on...

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by longwinter

 

Can't wait for the rest of your analysis OP S&F

Thanks.

Next stop, Jackie Kennedy (Whom I personally don't believe could have been responsible). Then I can move onto the Oswalds, and the James E Files' and so on...

I'll be looking to catch this one too OP. Excellent work of course

reply to post by randyvs

I'll be looking to catch this one too OP.

I hope we can have a debate, like we did here, on some of the other "suspects" too.

And thanks Randy.

Great thread Rising Against ! I too have recently revisited and researchd the JFK Assassination it's just one of those thing's that you (I) can't leave alone I guess !
Anyway I was wondering what your opinion was of this incident that no-one I have met or spoken to about the incident has even heard of ?
Thanks

Excellent thread . I love this subject and I'm looking forward to seeing your theory on James E Files .

S&F

reply to post by ProRipp


Personally, I have heard of this theory quite a few times before but in all honesty, I'm just not convinced there was a "secret service stand down at the time of the assassination" at all. Sure, the video you provided does seem to disagree with me here but then again, they appear to be looking at this issue from a certain biased angle, In my humble opinion.

Oh, and let me be honest here, this isn't actually an issue I've looked into in great deal really. I've always concentrated on other issues such as the assassination Itself, or where the shots have come from etc. so my opinion should be taken with a a pinch of salt here but all I ask at this point is for you to please watch this video below.

If possible, please watch from around the 4:50 mark. What you'll notice, or what I noticed anyway, is that even prior to Houston street, the Secret Service men wasn't with Kennedy and his limousine the entire time - they were close as the crowds were very big, but they weren't fully with him (Primarily at over 6 minutes +). This suggests to me, that they were backing off all the time, not just when entering dealey plaza like this entire theory seems to suggest.

Perhaps they were giving the crowd a chance to see there president in what was the state where he was most disliked, I don't know...

Anyway, here is the video:

Google Video Link

Please do take it to mean what you will, but to me, this theory seems debunked as what seems to be suggested is they backed off only when entering Dealey Plaza in order to let the would be assassins have a clear shot. Something which is false.

And let's also not forget that (and you can see this from the video I provided quite clearly, as well as in the Zapruder film and I believe the Hughes film (could be mistaken here)), prior to entering Dealey Plaza, thousands of people lined the streets. But upon entering it, they had vastly thinned out. Something the commentator even says.

So, It seemed more than safe to allow the secret service men to back off in exactly the way they did. And if someone was to approach the car, they were still more than close enough to act It would seem. Something we saw with Clint Hill once the shots rained down on the car as he was with them relatively quickly, well, IMO anyway taking into account It was a gunshot, lol. (Btw, Nobody acted prior to the fatal shot because nothing before this point sounded like a shot being fired - It's possible some sort of silencer was used which I'll try and show in a future thread).

Anyway, all of this is just my opinion going from the footage we have of the events. And to clarify: No, I don't feel a conspiracy involving the secret service men had occurred here. This being so, I genuinely would love to hear your opinion though, especially since you brought this up.

I'm sure you'll have a much better understanding of it than me.

reply to post by gandalphthegrey


Thanks.

I'm looking forward to writing up that thread as well. Not many seem to know about Files weirdly enough though but I think he makes some fascinating claims, ones which appear to have some truth in them too.

I assume you have some opinions of your own about him also?

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by gandalphthegrey

 

Thanks.

I'm looking forward to writing up that thread as well. Not many seem to know about Files weirdly enough though but I think he makes some fascinating claims, ones which appear to have some truth in them too.

I assume you have some opinions of your own about him also?

Yes , I have many opinions on Files ( and other theories ) and would like to read your upcomming thread before airing them

Good luck to you .