It's time for mankind to break his Earthly bonds. Commercialise space and let NASA die!

Interesting thread and I'm all for sending spam in a can into space and calling them astronauts. But there are some major hurdles to get trough before all that, the primary being that humans are really not made to be out of this planet for any long period of time, much less out of the magnetic field of the earth and to other planets, we really are just like cells of our planet and out of its influence we will break down in both body and mind.

Right now to do it with our current technology would be a suicide mission to send anybody to mars other then a robot, and like the nutters who talk to aliens say, we aren't going anywhere unless we first learn to get our stuff together on this planet, so far we cant even get a form of a efficient government, but we think we will fare much better in space were we wont even have time to contradict ourselves. Thats like if we were 5 yrs old and just learned to run, so now were going to try to run and jump over a moving bus because we saw it in a movie once. You know it's not a good idea, or thought out to much.

Commercializing is a crutch that can be afforded on this planet because we have little to lose and really this place is like the garden of eden compared to space and living on other planets that are not hospitable to the human system. And we even starve to death on earth and in such a thing as our current systems, so what do you think would happen in space when everything is set against you. And in space something as time consuming and pointless as expanding for profit and commercializing and the whole over expanding bureaucracy, will slow everything down to a crawl and might get you killed, and get you no were anytime soon. Sure some rich people might have money to fly in low orbit around the earth for a couple of days and take some pictures, but really that don't mean squat, and it's just an expensive hobby.

And even if we do commercialize space it would have to be way more efficient and to the point then anything that we currently have today on earth, because the one we have today on earth just goes in circles and has no real point's other then profit and just to keep everything and everyone "busy" hence "business". We would definitely and realistically need some better and way more advanced life support/space suit in any long term mission or mining or whatever, or we would need to send robots. And even robots would have a hard time operating in space and on other planets, but really the best of both worlds would be best and some sort of cyborg would be required for any long term space mission, and we don't even have the technology for that and wont for some time, and it's all baby steps to any long term space missions. And the first step would be, to not blow ourselves to kingdom come or make our environment inhospitable here right now on earth, and after we can accomplish that then maybe we can take the next step, but as you all can see the first step is the hardest.

reply to post by Ihsahn

And that would be the biggest hurdle yet. If it were governments in complete control of retrieving extraterrestrial resources, then I could easily see them waging war over it. I'd say corporations would be much more clever than that and undercut each other in the market rather than destroying each other.

Governments and Corporations are not as different as all that, the main differences are that a corporation is a newer creation then the nation, state, or government, and the other difference is that one is stationary and has borders=government, and the other is transient and has no borders=corporation. But they both would fight wars when they can't be clever and undercut each other. Thats pretty much how wars are started, when you cant undercut them, well then blow them up and take there stuff. Or as the robber barons motto that they got from Nietzsche goes. "one shall only steal when one cannot rob”

Well leaving space exploration and all that Helium3 at private companies at failing economies I guess is a very good way having the Space Program ending up at the hands of the Royal Bank of England.
Then it can be owned by Sir's and those people once they get a hold on to something, they just like to keep it in their Royal clutches for aeons. Oh wait! Those Sirs already got some piece of that pie don;t they?!
Sir Richard Branson? I guess the guy must be really lucky that NASA just happens to not be in a good shape lately, right?

Umm yes! Sell them NASA. Of course!

Let's say that all goes well in a hundred years since they been keeping mostly flying about and gathering Helium3 here and there, then all of a suden they come up with a greater idea! Why not? These people always do! That's how crusades started at the first place. So they get to discover non human intelligent life!

Now how would non human intelligent life looks like?
Well, lets take our own planet footprint of the plethora of the living organic species. Insects outnumber anything over here by a wide margin. So there is a very good chance the vast majority of life forms that evolved as sentient beings at least a our immediate galactic neighborhood to be evolving directly from insects and be insectoid in nature. Take example of earth. It just happened that we evolved as humans although this evolution took countless twists and turns. What if the human species is a rare occurance?

Now lets say that these Sirs who would like to become much the "great men" their family ancestors used to be, according to the history THEY wrote or re-wrote, starting getting ideas and withholding facts from the human populace and they somehow find a plan to take on the whole world and gain all its riches? Wouldn't that kind of a future make something like H.G.Wells War of the Worlds come alive?
Then you would be begging for a public space agency to exist. One that at least shares some of it's data with the public, versus a situation where all those secretive and manipulative Royal elites who never stoped trying for centuries to rule this planet.

If China or Russia aren't privatizing their space programs why should America? It's a potential source of income for Gods sake. You don't privatize these things!

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Well said. And I love your pic by the way.

reply to post by TerryMcGuire


I see what you mean. I'll have to give that book a read at some point, and I'm glad you cleared up things a bit. I'm just trying to look at this as how things will most likely be accomplished. While I agree with you on us not naturally being exploiters, the ones who will be in control of these space operations are well-known exploiters. While it isn't the intelligent solution to our issues, I will say that it seems to be the most realistic stance on how satisfying our energy burden could be accomplished.

I hope that made sense, I'm giving you a star.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Thankyou Galado.

May I refer others to your post?

I think that this is an all encompassing understanding of the situation. And well put to boot.

Originally posted by epsilon69
In space we just wouldnt enjoy the same standard of living as here on Earth. First of all we would be completely out of our element as we are inherently creatures of Earth. We have adapted to Earth's gravity, atmosphere, and ecosystems. In space our muscles and bones would atrophy, we would not enjoy the range of foods we eat here on Earth.

If we grew our food in space we would need to grow foods that are nitrogen donors in order for the soil to remain fertile. So we would be forced to eat alot of legumes, this neglect of other food groups could cause dietary deficiencies. Our protein intake could be greatly affected. We would be forced to farm animals that used up the least amount of space this would mean chickens. Because we cant have cows grazing around in Zero Gs. Even if we had gravity the amount of space; cows and other livestock would take up would make them inefficient.

The radiation levels in space will also give us problems. Even low levels of radiation combined with weakened bones from low gravity could cause easily broken and fractured bones. Solar flares can come out of no where and if we were say on a moon base and a solar flare hit us it could kill everyone onboard with no warning. Diseases could also be spread much easier on a space station with people living so close to each other and sharing the same amount of limited breathable air. We also don't know what will happen to fetuses developing in a zero G environment. Lack of sunlight would reduce our Vitamin D counts weakening bones further. We would have to supplement vitamin D or install UV lights on the stations. Powering the stations would also be a problem. If we used nuclear reactors this again would increase the amount of radiation the people onboard would receive and along with solar radiation and cosmic might be enough to push the human body to the breaking point. The point im trying to drive home here is even though we all see space travel on TV with star trek and star wars in reality it would not even remotely resemble this propaganda. Space is a dangerous and inhospitable place for human life and in my honest opinion we should do our best to live in balance on this planet because it's the only one we will get.

The solar flare problem is the only one that hasn't been solved. A real problem though. Would have to be close to Earth, moon or asteriod to block one.

All of the other problems can be solved. Radiation from space in general would have to be shielded by a magnetic or electrical field the way earth does it. You can simulate gravity by spinning the space vehicle. Solar panels provide plenty of energy, no need for nukes.
The plants might actually be easier to digest. An experiment in closed space living in Oracle AZ found that trees will not become rigid and support their own weight unless moved by wind during their growth. If the same holds true for vegetables, the vegies cell walls would be thinner and easier for humans to digest if grown in zero G.
There must be some chemical or proccess that can be done faster, easier or cheaper in space.

One of my first conspiritorial suspicions was, why don't they teach us physics in junior high and get us ready for space?. Answer, If we go into space, they can't control us anymore.

Originally posted by randyvs
Nope
I can't agree with this at all Slayer. I don't feel we belong in space, until we can at least take care of our own
planet. We start mess'in up out there, the way we have our own home? I think you of all people should know where i'm coming from. Look at us right now. The planets close to being devestated and everybody is looking for some place to run. Well do you think we deserve an easy way out? I don't. I think we deserve what we get. That's how things will most likely be too.

edit on 9-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

I don't own any of the earth anyway, lemme go to space and own my own space station.

Wonderful thread! S&F Slayer!

I would love to see us explore the moon more but one thing concerns me. Habitation. Even the thought of terraforming Mars makes me ill. We can't even take care of the planet we live on (and I am not a tree hugging hippy, I just think you shouldn't s**t where you sleep), we can't respect each other, the greed, hate, war, etc etc etc... we will just take that crap where we go. We get to the moon, with a RAIL GUN, some tool will use it all Lex Luther like and wreak havoc. I am cynical yes because there are allot of nasty pos's out there and they have allot of money!

If we are to experience this type of technological advancement, we need to allow ourselves to evolve into the beings that we are meant to. Not shove pills down peoples throats because they think or feel differently than what the "norm" is. Then and only then do I feel that we can make that jump and hopefully not kill ourselves in the meantime.

If we were raised like humans instead of like robots or dogs, there would be societies of spaceship construction that would work alot like this ATS blog. Your payment would be passage or experience in making something that required experience to make.

Everybody here should have at least a college 101 knowledge of biology, chemistry, physics, history, linguistics, psychology, math, art etc. by the time you graduate high school.

The fact that you don't is the reason we're not in space and probably never will be.

reply to post by spacebot


Thank you for providing us with your interesting perspective.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


I have to say that's a good way of looking at things.

reply to post by Ihsahn




Ishan
Thank you for your patience. I've been in and out all day, Working the yards and lawns and my neighbor came over for a while.

As I was finding my way back to our conversation I found a post by Gladofwarthethird at the top of this page which better sums up my thinking on this issue if you are interested. Now I must go play Scrabble with my wife. She is very competitive.

The only reason the corporate world would invest in space was if their was something to create profit from.

As it stands there isn’t, so the only ones going into space (IE Richard Branson) are doing it purely because they have the cash to spare, an interest in creativity and exploration and the will to do something outrageous.

Until we find a use for moon rock, space dust or space tourism, its going to be left to governments.



cool thread, and I agree with you totally.

I myself could only immagine a world in space for the future. The earth then would become one big farm. Remember the movie Blade Runner. www.youtube.com... immagine if everyone had a transportation vehicle like that. Also remember star wars, the death star. two worlds like that put into one. Tho, i hope alot more nicer world in space or wherever. I would be a star traveler. To boldly go where noone has gone before. Create a new gov't in space where your accomplishments in life, daily get you a higher rank. Speaking of breaking it's earthly bonds, i would create a gov't system based on accomplishments, somewhat like on star trek. No money system. Lets say you were an electronic tech. You would live anywhere your degree education takes you and you would do work in such field. Lets say you were a farmer and went to learn about farming. You would work in an area so that you could farm feilds to help feed the peoples. Everyone with a job to perform said duties so thus a ship or spacestation can self sustain itself, 24 hours rotating in shifts. Depending on the population of said ship, people could have a rotation of work only 1 day for 8 hours in a week. How? shifts A-G. A1-A-3, work mondays. B1-B3 work tuesdays and so on to G. Work would be done simillar to now days ships on the water have. You would have your cooks,maintanance/electronics/service repair,laundary,security, janitors, your diferent shops, your sleeping areas, recreational areas, eating areas, Sort of like a cruise liner in space, only everyone has a job to perform with lots of time off. peoples will have cloths given to them so thus only one place to do laundary save space. Also separate bathroom and shower facilities to save space. All on one huge rotating ball in space, or maybe a huge moving starship. If spacetravel could carry you to different stars in minutes. I would take a harem of wimen to a planet and populate it. I then would make laws that were just and fair. On the basis of do whatever you want, only follow basic said laws. My laws. basically a paradise in space.

reply to post by DonnaLynn


I think the answer is still with Private and corporate involvement on a grander scale. In human history nothing really has been really accomplished and self sustaining unless there was a profit. Why not use what the world has turned to to get up and out there?

Originally posted by XRaDiiX
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

S & F Slayer
The new private rocket plan Unveiled a week or two ago is Huge it can send manned missions to Mars and the moon!

Take a look
www.space.com...
I think we still need Nasa though Look at the projects they have done with their budget compared to the military
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a9ecfe29f6bd.jpg[/atsimg]

that pie chart picture is perfect! it really illustrates just how stupid the idea is that nasa has too big a budget. certainly the bureaucracy needs to be lessened, if not eliminated, but the idea that nasa is receiving this vast budget that is just going to waste is ludicrous. i've said it before and i'll say it again, we need a civilian council of scientists to keep things moving smoothly and running as cheaply as possible(but still quality and safe) and to then increase their budget by a factor of four at least. then couple that with grants to private companies and money drives as well for private space exploration tech to be developed. but that's just what i think.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The only reason the corporate world would invest in space was if their was something to create profit from.

As it stands there isn’t, so the only ones going into space (IE Richard Branson) are doing it purely because they have the cash to spare, an interest in creativity and exploration and the will to do something outrageous.

Until we find a use for moon rock, space dust or space tourism, its going to be left to governments.

cool thread, and I agree with you totally.

uhhh mining for one, all the base metals on other planets and asteroids. metals we haven't discovered yet because they can only be created in a vacuum or zero g. minerals. gasses. hell if they can find a way to skim gases off the gas giants like jupiter...that'd rake in billions alone, probably trillions. there's plenty of resources like my mentioning of basementals that we already know how to get and can adapt current tech to that'd be worth billions and/or trillions.

the only thing that isn't feasible right now is that they don't have the vehicles to get their. that's where nasa, private space ex companies and individuals come into play.

reply to post by SLAYER69


If you've missed alot on ATS, for example, it would be very hard to catch you up. Short cuts would be needed.

ufospeak.com. Lou Baldin's tab and his Q & A, alot of John Lears posts there. Usually best to work back in long things, ie. read last 30 pages, and so on, go back another 30 or so. So much information.

I know already have experienced this first hand. And its put out in plain sight for anyone to see. Anyone who thinks the world is the way it is because of humanity versus the bloodlines and what their true intent is and hwo they serve, really needs to wake up. The first earth lesson is to ask what is the meaning of life, and the next is to see that everything is backwards, the world doesnt add up.

The only thing about these Fish, in the fishbowl universe/school, is there are true Adults watching over, so while things can be done to a certain extent for lessons and tests, so we really learn to love and yearn for equality, the empire and all its control for ages upon ages, is living in distortions and subgect to the same need to wake up.

John Leer made an interesting post on another forum about some videos on telescope images of stations and crafts. He said those were ours, that is probably what the US paramilitary industrial complex has been funding with its HAARP and blackmailing/terrozing the world into handing over their funds and goods,and their own citizens programs and joint collectivity that their taxes and resources should have funded. The stealing of 90% of the worlds resources while children are starving and creating Wars/Deaths/Fossil Fuel Bubble over clean technology/Disease and depopulation. Its literally like living in a winterland run by demons.

I agree, NASA has done nothing and living in Florida I have met people who have worked there andthey say it is very poorly managed. If it was a business, it would have been bankrupt years ago! How many billions of dollars go through there? We are still using the space shuttle, it's been over 20 years!! I would phase it out slowly or sell it to american company. I don't think it is worth it, wasted money and talent.