Simple question for evolutionists

reply to post by creatednotEvolved


If we cannot comprehend "His" existance, then it is also just as logical to assume that you do not either. So how can you believe in something you can't comprehend, talk to or prove exists? Personal "experiences" are probably going to be your answer, however they are not proof.

If one man talks to "God", he's a paranoid schizophrenic, if 1,000 men talk to "God" it's called Religion.

You might as well claim that a goblin created everything, you have just as much credibility of proving that as well. As far as the pictures of the dimensions, go right ahead, your guess is as good as anyone else's; not to mention I'm an artist and a graphic modeler so I like good concept art.

King

So who created god?

Would you answer that? If everything gets its existance form something else... how is god any different... o yeah and you cant use the bible.

Originally posted by creatednotEvolved
By the way, santa clause is not outside the realm of space and time. He's in shopping malls every year around december.

And Jesus is in every manger during christmas too, so what's your point?

King

reply to post by Theophorus


I fail to see what this has to do with a shift in allele frequency in a population over time.

Originally posted by creatednotEvolved

Originally posted by Kingalbrect79

I have just as much evidence to say that "Santa Clause" created the universe and everything in it because he is outside the realm of space and time and therefore cannot be questioned.


King

edit on 8-4-2011 by Kingalbrect79 because: Edit to add...

By the way, santa clause is not outside the realm of space and time. He's in shopping malls every year around december.

Santa Claus would have to outside the realm of time in order to deliver toys all over the world in one night. I have yet to hear a sonic boom from his sleigh

reply to post by Theophorus

OKAY....here is the answer...ITS GOD!!!

Wrong answer. Your monotheistic deity is a 2000 year old retelling of the Sumerian deity El. An Egyptian pharoah attempted to bring about monotheism before then, but he ultimately failed in the end and the Egyptians went back to practicing polytheism. This 2,000 year old attempt has only succeeded due to the violent nature of early Christians who killed everyone who refused to convert to their beliefs and who systematically destroyed countless cultures and scientific documents. The Hebrews (which weren't called Hebrews back then) lived alongside all these other polytheistic cultures without being violent in their beliefs the way Christians have.

You claim it is your Deity. Other religions claim it's their Deities. Who is right? A two thousand year old retelling of an older myth, or the older myth itself? Or could it possibly be all bunk and superstition developed by early man trying to make sense of his world and evolved into all these different deities? How can you assure me that your right when I can point to other religions that tell me the same? How can I be sure your God exists when I can point out archeological history showing me it's the Sumerian god El?

reply to post by Kingalbrect79


In ancient times, all believed in God because I guess it was more obvious back then than it is now. The few who did not beileve in God were considered fools and outcasted as mental cases. Today, they are called the same thing but in a non direct way. Agnostic, which means 'without knowledge'.
What is more insane, to believe in a God who created everything because He is obviously infinitely intelligent
or to believe that a rock, just like the ones you have outside your house, came alive and everything somehow
came to be from that rock.
Maybe if we get the best looking rock outside of our house and we stare at it long enough, it will come alive and eventually it will turn into a beautiful princess we can marry.

Originally posted by leemachino

Originally posted by creatednotEvolved

Originally posted by Kingalbrect79

I have just as much evidence to say that "Santa Clause" created the universe and everything in it because he is outside the realm of space and time and therefore cannot be questioned.


King

edit on 8-4-2011 by Kingalbrect79 because: Edit to add...

By the way, santa clause is not outside the realm of space and time. He's in shopping malls every year around december.

Santa Claus would have to outside the realm of time in order to deliver toys all over the world in one night. I have yet to hear a sonic boom from his sleigh

haha, I would really like to see you try to start a religion based on santa claus as a creator. You would have to reply to your own posts.

reply to post by Theophorus


There are no 'evolutionists'.

Now...you're not even asking a question that relates to evolution at all, you're asking about the theological/philosophical question of a universe derived from an idea of pure causation. Frankly, we don't know what happened at the very very very very beginning of the universe, so we can't really answer that question.

So....I don't know. It's a damn honest answer to a dishonestly titled thread.

reply to post by creatednotEvolved

Originally posted by creatednotEvolved
reply to post by Kingalbrect79

 

In ancient times, all believed in God because I guess it was more obvious back then than it is now.

I'm sorry, but where's the evidence of monotheistic belief prior to the 7th century BCE?

The few who did not beileve in God were considered fools and outcasted as mental cases.

Yes..'outcasted'...as prominent philosophers of their time.

Today, they are called the same thing but in a non direct way. Agnostic, which means 'without knowledge'.

...it doesn't mean without any knowledge, it means without epistemological certainty. Agnostic atheist. A person who doesn't believe but has no way of being certain in regard to that question.

What is more insane, to believe in a God who created everything because He is obviously infinitely intelligent

Which one?
Furthermore, there's no evidence for the existence of this being, so you sort of run into a problem there.

or to believe that a rock, just like the ones you have outside your house, came alive and everything somehow
came to be from that rock.

...straw man, in fact it's the classic Dr Dino straw man, been a while since I heard that one.

Nobody in the scientific community is saying that a 'rock' 'came alive and everything somehow came to be from that rock'.

...of course, you're clearly not the sort of person who is interested in what people actually say or what scientists actually do.

Maybe if we get the best looking rock outside of our house and we stare at it long enough, it will come alive and eventually it will turn into a beautiful princess we can marry.

And now you're just being absurd for the sake of ridicule. I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually Kent Hovind posting from behind bars.

Nobody in the scientific community thinks that life came from 'a rock', please stop spouting this ignorant bovine fecal matter.

Originally posted by Theophorus
I posted this in one thread I was commenting on and thought it would be a wonderful topic here in this forum.

Everyone would have to agree that if we consider the universe we find that everything does exist but very well might not have existed. We ourselves exist, but we would not have existed if man and woman had not met and mated. The same mark can be found with everything. A valley exists because a stream of water took that way down, perhaps because the ice melted up there. If the melted ice had not been there, there would have been no valley. And so with everything.Everything exists,but they would not have existed if some other thing had not been what it was or done what it did.Considering this, none of theses things are an explanation of its own existence or the source of its own existence. In other words existence is contingent upon something else. Each thing possesses existence, can pass it on,but it did not originate its existence.Its essentially a receiver of existence. Thus being said, its impossible to conceive of a universe consisting exclusively of contingent beings.

Question is this: If nothing exists except beings that receive their existence,How does anything exist at all? Thanks for your replies.

chemicals formed amino acids, which formed dna, dna formed simple bacteria, bacteria through symbiotic relationships with each other formed fungi, plants, animals.....the hundreds of millions of years that this took, cannot be properly concieved as producing life, due to mans limited understanding of the massive scale of time involved. so....they created a mythical being to simplify the "creation" of man for our distant and barbaric ancestors

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Theophorus

 

There are no 'evolutionists'.

Now...you're not even asking a question that relates to evolution at all, you're asking about the theological/philosophical question of a universe derived from an idea of pure causation. Frankly, we don't know what happened at the very very very very beginning of the universe, so we can't really answer that question.

So....I don't know. It's a damn honest answer to a dishonestly titled thread.

i like your style, as well as your use of simple logic and reason...but, careful...now you be thought of as an "elitist" to the slopped-headed, knuckle-draggers out there.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

Frankly, we don't know what happened at the very very very very beginning of the universe, so we can't really answer that question.

I suppose you can't, now can you? Your theory of evolution brings you no closer to the truth of how we were created as humans or not.Truth is, is that The Judeo christian faith does. This you can not deny.Now weather or not this truth is valid is up for debate.Problem is ,is that you cant prove the Judeo-christian belief to be wrong, on the contrary Judeo-christians have been waiting for a sufficient answer for many milenia.Bible says that we as man were created. My question remains.

So....I don't know

you said it.

Originally posted by Theophorus
Your theory of evolution brings you no closer to the truth of how we were created as humans or not.

You're confusing the theory of evolution with abiogenesis. Seems to be a common mistake on these forums.

Truth is, is that The Judeo christian faith does.

Right... the answer with no evidence supporting it bring us closer to the truth.

This you can not deny.

Every religion outside of the Abrahamic ones would deny what you just said.

Now weather or not this truth is valid is up for debate.

You said it.

Problem is ,is that you cant prove the Judeo-christian belief to be wrong, on the contrary Judeo-christians have been waiting for a sufficient answer for many milenia.

You can't prove any belief to be wrong. You have to provide positive evidence for your assertions, not prove other ones wrong.

Bible says that we as man were created.

The Bible also says that the value of pi is three.

My question remains.

And probably will for some time.

Considering the interpersonal relationship between light and matter, there is really no such thing as the physical universe. There are simply differing forms of energy, it's movement, and how those two are perceived.

If, for one reason or another, this universe started at some point or was simply born again from a previous collapse, then it's possible the ignition was started by a being. That being may or may not be a god as we think of them.

What none of the "proofs of god" do is create a link of any kind between a creator and the various religions of the world. In no way does the existence of a designer or god or creator have add anything of substance to world religion in any way. If that link existed, what makes anyone think it points to the Christian god, or the Islamic one, or any of them. For all we know the Greeks had it right to begin with.

reply to post by Kingalbrect79



For to us God revealed them [the elements of the secret purposes of God] through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised
1 Corinthians 2:10-14

No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, "Why have you made me like this?" Romans 9:20

All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done?" Daniel 4:35

Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and dominion, for You created all things; by Your will they were [brought into being] and were created. Revelation 4:11


GOD IS NOT ON TRIAL! (angels were tested... as mankind is tested...)


O you sons of men, how long will you turn my honor and glory into shame? How long will you love vanity and futility and seek after lies? Selah [pause, and calmly think of that]!

3But know that the Lord has set apart for Himself [and given distinction to] him who is godly [the man of loving-kindness]. The Lord listens and heeds when I call to Him.

4Be angry [or stand in awe] and sin not; commune with your own hearts upon your beds and be silent (sorry for the things you say in your hearts). Selah [pause, and calmly think of that]! Psalm 4:2-4

For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ( unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. John 3:16

(I LOVE GOD, AND TRUST HIM 100%) Not Religion! BUT RELATIONSHIP! The Time Will Come, And Their

Will Be No More Evil.

reply to post by Faith2011


Uh, Yeah, if you say so. You can quote scripture all day long, but you have absolutely no evidence to back it up as being factual. Your bible contradicts itself in so many passages that we could go round for round with the sheer number of inconsistancies.

How can you honestly quote me a book as reference material AND claim that that book's passages are true if it can't even get it's story straight?

I'll stick to Dr. Suess and his many stories because they are just as likely to be true as your load of bull. Shall I begin quoting you passages from Green Eggs and Ham? Or how about Horton Hears a Who?

I'm sure they would be just as riveting, and equally factual.

King

reply to post by Kingalbrect79


"Antony Flew's conversion to theism"


Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


God's Word is 100% True. (Context is Key) Rightly Dividing The Word! (True Research Leads To Creator)

Originally posted by Theophorus
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Frankly, we don't know what happened at the very very very very beginning of the universe, so we can't really answer that question.

I suppose you can't, now can you? Your theory of evolution brings you no closer to the truth of how we were created as humans or not.Truth is, is that The Judeo christian faith does. This you can not deny.Now weather or not this truth is valid is up for debate.Problem is ,is that you cant prove the Judeo-christian belief to be wrong, on the contrary Judeo-christians have been waiting for a sufficient answer for many milenia.Bible says that we as man were created. My question remains.

So....I don't know

you said it.

"Bible says that we as men were created"
The bible was written by men and therefore created by men. Just as other religions and the theory of evolution.

"Problem is ,is that you cant prove the Judeo-christian belief to be wrong"
Nor can it proven to be right. Just as other religions and the theory of evolution.

Your question remains because its a philosophical in nature and begets more questions.

How do you prove any theory or religion to be wrong?
How does the Judeo - Christian faith bring anyone closer to the truth, when the truth is unknown and a mystery?

haha, I would really like to see you try to start a religion based on santa claus as a creator. You would have to reply to your own posts.

What? Start a religion based on a bearded guy who seems to perform miracles. It's already been done so it shouldn't be too hard. Just borrow a few ideas from an older religion (maybe christianity) assimilate those into some fresh thoughts and BAM, new religion.

Christmas trees, tradition borrowed from the pagans. Story of Noah, rewritten from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Just a few examples.

Now days isn't Christmas more about gifts than Jesus anyway? It's got a jumpstart as a central holiday and celebration around Santa Claus