A question to anyone that Resides in Israel or supports Israel Blindly on faith

reply to post by illusive man


It's par for the course and to be expected.

reply to post by illusive man

now Must you? first Mossad and now Zionest well thank you for dropping by

save your breath, he was attempting to bait someone into posting something that could get them banned. I called him on it, he's gone. Actually, it's a perfect indication of what Israel has historically done, bait the enemy into doing something that will Justify Israels response.

reply to post by projectvxn

You're the one saying I'm comparing all Muslims to the radicals I posted. Never mind that I isolated the terms "Islamist" and "Jihadist"

Ok so everyone in the countries around Israel is a Jihadist, including Western governments? Yeah, nice try. We can continue to discuss once you come to grips with the fact that no one is calling you a Mossad agent or Zionist.

Not just by Muslim nations, but by citizens and organizations in Western nations. And in some cases, governments themselves.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Yeah sure.

If someone gets banned it's because they don't have any control of themselves or what they post.

People like you jump out with an accusatory finger the minute ANYONE says anything remotely in favor of Israel.

It's pathetic.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Did I say that?

No I didn't.

You need to come to grips with the fact that trying to paint someone in a color preferable to your ridiculous arguments is not conducive to anything but your own bias.

Originally posted by Phrook
I really didn't want my first post to be on this topic in particular. I am not loyal to Israel, and in general I tend to be apathetic towards goings on in the world, but I have to point out that the statistics of civilian deaths and all that are not overly relevant. I had a cousin who served in the IDF, he was a volounteer from the U.S and his experiences within the West Bank and Gaza were such that its very hard to distinguish who is a civilian and who is going to try to kill you. That aside, a significant amount of conflict over land, and peace and all that is related to The Yom Kippur War in 1973.

For those who don't know in 1973 Israel was attacked by pretty much anyone who shared a border with it. This happened on the holiest day of the year for the Jews (so holy the military was on leave). In any event Israel not only managed to mobilize its army but it held its aggressors at bay and managed to even secure more territory.

My understanding of war is that if a country managed to conquer land in a war (such as when the States too parts of Mexico that are now Texas and other states) that they don't have to give it back. Anyways I am all for peace and love and non violence, but I do kind of feel that anyone, any country has the right (or even the obligation) to defend its territory, and its population no matter the cost.

I hope in my first post i didnt add fuel to a fire, or contravene any of your forums conventions.

why did he serve? main reasons

Originally posted by Phrook

My understanding of war is that if a country managed to conquer land in a war (such as when the States too parts of Mexico that are now Texas and other states) that they don't have to give it back. Anyways I am all for peace and love and non violence, but I do kind of feel that anyone, any country has the right (or even the obligation) to defend its territory, and its population no matter the cost.

I hope in my first post i didnt add fuel to a fire, or contravene any of your forums conventions.

Maybe during the olden days where there were no Laws governing Prisoners of war and other Human rights,
Any land gained can only be used for Defensive purposes and cannot be used to root settlements on,
which Israel are breaching right now, hence why all homes are considered illegal settlements

But these days we have Geneva convention and UN laws which countries are Signitaries to


also you didn't add any fire

reply to post by projectvxn

People like you jump out with an accusatory finger

Feel free to point out where I did that. Or is disagreeing with you now an accusation? I'd get back on topic personally, that would be the smartest move right now.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

Ok so everyone in the countries around Israel is a Jihadist, including Western governments? Yeah, nice try.

You're unbelievable.

reply to post by projectvxn


Actually kind sir, you totally did:

Not just by Muslim nations, but by citizens and organizations in Western nations. And in some cases, governments themselves.

Care to get back on topic now?


Also gotta respect you for sticking to your guns, I disagree with your view, but that is kind of the point of a thread like this isn't it?

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

Ok so everyone in the countries around Israel is a Jihadist, including Western governments? Yeah, nice try.

You're unbelievable.

you kind of did

Originally posted by projectvxn
Israel is surrounded by enemies on all sides. This is more true today, with the government of Egypt up for grabs by the Muslim Brotherhood who created Hamas, Israels sworn enemy in Gaza. If the Israelis EVER dropped their guard or showed any weakness at all the pervasive Jihadist culture in the rest of the Middle East would completely consume Israel, and no Israeli Jew would survive it.

reply to post by illusive man

Any land gained can only be used for Defensive purposes and cannot be used to root settlements on, which Israel are breaching right now, hence why all homes are considered illegal settlements

Yes, you could say that any land grabbed during the war is theirs. This doesn't imply the illegal expansions and settlements AFTER the war are valid. They are not, almost every government has acknowledged this.

the people that just want Israel to disappear are either ignorant, or just plain stupid. there's no going back, and as far as I'm concerned, every Israeli in Israel has a right to be there. The problem is, there is no "border" it's continually growing and that is a problem.

At this point i'm not even sure a 2 state solution would work. but I honestly believe if they just drew up the borders and stopped with the illegal expansions, most of their enemies wouldn't have a leg to stand on. they have no right to encroach and occupy land belonging to other countries. simple as that. I don't care what biblical claims they think they have to the land, this is 2011, get over it. Israel is there, and if they don't learn to work with their neighbors, it will be in a constant state of unrest.

Israel, and their actions, are the greatest obstacle to peace in the middle east.

reply to post by illusive man


No I didn't.

The Muslim governments that surround Israel are Jihadist or anti-Jew in general.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamic organization with satellite organization operating all over the world. Including Al Qaeda..

it's not my fault if people can't effing read.

reply to post by projectvxn

it's not my fault if people can't effing read.

Yeah, apparently you are one of them.

Not just by Muslim nations, but by citizens and organizations in Western nations. And in some cases, governments themselves.

Since you can't drop this, care to enlighten us as to which western governments are jihadists? And I use the term Jihadist because you are sure that's what you used, ignoring the quotes of you saying muslims, but that's fine, I'll forgive that mistake for you



===

If anyone is wondering, this is a perfect example of how these discussions get derailed. Make note of it so you can avoid it in the future.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


More proof you can't read.

This is what i said:

The Muslim governments that surround Israel are Jihadist or anti-Jew in general.

The Muslim Brotherhood is a radical Islamic organization with satellite organization operating all over the world. Including Al Qaeda..

Did I say in ANY post that Western governments at all are Jihadists? No I did not.

If anyone is wondering, this is a perfect example of how these discussions get derailed. Make note of it so you can avoid it in the future.

Is it really?

A question to anyone that Resides in Israel or supports Israel Blindly on faith

I gave my reasons for supporting Israel.

Immediately thereafter you go for crap like this:

But hey, it's all propaganda right? Those darn antisemites in the UN/ NATO/red cross. Oh and the videos of them raining white phosphorus down on children, well, that camera is obviously antisemitic.

And this crap:

Ahh I see how it is. We can use examples from the fringe minority to paint all Muslims as evil, but heaven forbid you do that with Israel right?

I seriously could post hundreds of videos showing Israelis expressing their racism and hatred for all non Jews. Seriously the ultra-orthodox sects in Israel openly state any non jew (this includes converts) are goyim and are cattle to be slaughtered by Jews, the only real humans. It's ok to rape and murder a child, as long as it's not Jewish.

But see, that would defeat the purpose right? Because it would be antisemitic to post those videos right?

The black panthers wanted to kill "whitey" so I guess all black people are evil right?

You post garbage like this and you want to accuse me of derailing?

reply to post by projectvxn


Sigh

Never mind that I isolated the terms "Islamist" and "Jihadist"

So you isolated Islamist and Jihadist? where exactly?

Did I say in ANY post that Western governments at all are Jihadists? No I did not.

Not just by Muslim nations, but by citizens and organizations in Western nations. And in some cases, governments themselves.

Ok, so you said only Jihadists, but then you said Muslims and western governments ?

interesting indeed. Keep digging, it's rather entertaining




Just for the record, not all Arabs are Muslim, not all Muslims are extremists, and not all Extremists are jihadists. In case you were confused on that matter.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters



The context of what i said

But they are severely outnumbered and it is the only country in the Middle East whose existence is regularly threatened. Not just by Muslim nations, but by citizens and organizations in Western nations. And in some cases, governments themselves.

Governments in Western nations HAVE made very telling moves against Israel. Especially through UN actions.

Apparently you took that to mean that I was implying that Western nations are Jihadist. If that's the case, I recommend that you clear the smoke and put down the Phish album before posting again.

So Jihadists aren't Muslim then? how about The Islamic Republic of Iran? They want Israel destroyed(the government does anyway)...They're not Muslim? They're not 12ers who believe that the destruction of Israel would bring back the Mahdi?

reply to post by projectvxn

Governments in Western nations HAVE made very telling moves against Israel. Especially through UN actions. Apparently you took that to mean that I was implying that Western nations are Jihadist.

No, I took it exactly as you wrote it, keep on with personal attacks it really highlights your point.

So the UN is anti-israel is that what you are saying, because the world community expects them to act like the rest of us with respect to international law?

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Respect for international Law?



The UN is a corrupt pseudo world government who wants to control the destinies of all people of the world. International Law is a joke.

reply to post by projectvxn

So Jihadists aren't Muslim then? how about The Islamic Republic of Iran? They want Israel destroyed(the government does anyway)...They're not Muslim? They're not 12ers who believe that the destruction of Israel would bring back the Mahdi?

Dear god you can't be serious. I said not all muslims are jihadists, and you claim I can't read? i'm done with you, you simply won't allow this discussion and are resorting to pretty pathetic methods to keep it derailed. Well done, you win.

Everyone in the world hates Israel.

Sanctions against Israel

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Uh huh.


Before you storm off crying you should know one thing.

I don't really care what you think is derailment. The premise of this thread is to ascertain what reasons supporters of Israel have for supporting Israel.

Do I think Israel is perfect and squeaky clean ? Hell no. But if given a choice I will stand with those who do not want to impose Shari'a on the world, who don't want to put women in trash bags and call it good, who don't want to behead people for drawing a cartoon.

I recognize that this does not mean every Muslim. But this is a prevailing mentality in the Middle East. Apparently you didn't see the polls on how Muslims in Egypt and throughout the ME view apostasy. Much of the ME is gripped with a 7th Century ideology and the control mechanisms that prevent any kind of meaningful peace.

So long as people like the ones in those videos I posted are allowed to exist and control the Muslim world there will be no peace.