reply to post by daskakik
Also, you have no idea what the writers of the texts you quote are really talking about but you act as if you do, for example the stretching of
the heavens like a fine guaze was probably referring to clouds, which makes sense since this is something that people see all the time and they in
fact look like gauze. The problem is that then it isn't knowledge that had to be given by a higher being, so you then make the leap to dark matter
because then it helps your argument.
Of course I do, really, but let’s analyze the texts in contention and see what the writer meant:
Here’s the text:
“There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the
heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell,” (Isaiah 40:22)
On this text we see two established facts:
1) The earth is round or in a shape of a circle or a globe.
2) That the heavens are stretched like“fine gauze”.
But you say that item 2:
“was probably referring to clouds, which makes sense since this is something that people see all the time and they
in fact look like gauze”
The obvious answer is no - because if you look at clouds they resemble or look more like puff of smoke or fluffy cotton balls or just a plane cotton.
Besides they are formed not “stretched”.
Now let’s look at the universe again.
Look again at the image below. Is the universe expanding or “stretching”? But stretching like what?
Q: If scientists had already confirmed that the universe is expanding, is it a stretch of imagination then if I say that the Universe is
Here’s a closer look at the “stretching” / expanding Universe. Does it resemble a stretched “fine gauze”?
Note this quote from Scientific American Journal:
… From the types of anomalies we see, we can glean a few basic facts about them. Dark matter seems to be a sea of invisible particles that fills
space unevenly; dark energy is spread out uniformly and acts as if it is woven into the fabric of space itself. Scientists have yet to repeat
Galle’s accomplishment of pointing an instrument at the sky and glimpsing the unseen players definitively, but tantalizing inklings, such as blips
in particle detectors, continue to accumulate.
Does this article seem strange to you that the writer used the terminology / expression “woven into the fabric of space itself” to define
scientific matters? As if the universe is a fabric?
How about the writer of the Bible? Rather than use a course fabric terminology, the writer used “fine gauze” fabric terminology to describe the
starry heavens. Does it agree with what scientists had observed? I say, most definitely.
Think about this too, on a clear night if you look at the heavens the thousands of stars do, indeed, form a lacy web stretched over the black velvet
background of space. In fact even the enormous galaxy known as the Via Lactea, or Milky Way, in which our solar system is located, has a filmy
gauzelike appearance from earth’s viewpoint.
Below is a view of “Via Lactea” from earth:
A closer look:
Q: Do you think the prophet Isaiah was referring to something like this as “stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze
”? Or was he
referring to clouds? Which one makes more sense?
Now is it coincidence, a wild guess, a borrowed idea that the Bible writer wrote it this way? That is, “One who is stretching out the heavens just
as a fine gauze
I say no – because the prophet Isaiah was stating the observable facts and the facts given to him.
Here’s a SKY Survey of our Milky Galaxy:
Here’s a closer look of our galaxy - 360 view of just our Milky Way Galaxy which is a part of a local group of about 50 galaxies in a local group of
clusters in the Virgo Supercluster.
So without a doubt the Bible writer knew what he wrote when he saw the Heavens - the starry filled heavens. It’s only now that we’re confirming
this to be so in “finer” detail - a truly remarkable achievement in our time.
You also have not answered how the "beginning" in your myth makes it true while other myths with a beginning are wrong.
Genesis 1:1 is not a myth – as proven by scientific facts, that the “heavens” the universe and the earth had a beginning.
And as already explained the material world came into existence by converting energy into matter. But the source of that energy – science has no
answer (because it can’t admit it). Genesis 1:1 simply states that God was that source of that energy as he is the Creator.
Again, the source of “dynamic energy”:
“Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? . . . Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not
one of them is missing.”—Isa. 40:26.
The source of that “dynamic energy” is ALWAYS EXISTING – Jehovah God (YHWH)! Our minds can’t fathom it but it’s not a valid reason to ignore
it because there are things that we readily accept even though they are beyond our imagination.
As a side note, notice this statement by a scientist 56 years ago:
Professor John R. Brobeck of the University of Pennsylvania stated:
“A scientist is no longer able to say honestly something is impossible. He can only say it is improbable. But he may be able to say something
is impossible to explain in terms of our present knowledge. Science cannot say that all properties of matter and all forms of energy are now known. .
. . [For a miracle] one thing that needs to be added is a source of energy unknown to us in our biological and physiological sciences. In our
Scriptures this source of energy is identified as the power of God.” (Time, July 4, 1955)
What about now in our 21st Century is this more emphatic? The evidence is unmistakable.
In fact there was a thread created here talking about impossible things but I was not able to find it. It was an interview of Dr. Michio Kaku. He said
if my memory is correct that there are things that we believe are impossible but we are getting closer and closer in achieving them.
Anyway here’s a quote from one of his books:
"the God of Miracles is, in some sense, beyond what we know as science. This is not to say that miracles cannot happen, only that they are outside
what is commonly called science." [p. 331] Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps, and the Tenth Dimension - Dr.
But as for “other myths with a beginning” can you please show me an example of it? This way we can do a comparison?
next u said:
A while ago I got into it with someone about the true meaning of the 14 Amendment to the Constitution of the US. This is a text written 143
years ago in english and people still can't agree on what it is really saying. It is no surprise that disagreements would exist when it comes to texts
2000 years old and in different languages. This is why I don't take your or sigismundus version as gospel but this is all I need to see to know that
if god exists and this was his plan then he doesn't seem omni anything.
Of course, there’s no surprise there – in fact if you give someone a simple owner’s manual on how to take care of or operate a machine. People
will interpret it in different ways. It’s the same thing with the Bible.
But who’s to say which interpretation is correct?
On an owner’s manual – who’s the best and most qualified person to explain it? Is it the person who created the machine or the secretary who
typed in the manual? It’s the person who created the machine. Correct?
What about the “14 Amendment to the Constitution of the US”? It’s the people who put it there. Correct?
But since we don’t’ have access to the people responsible for it, so how do we know which interpretation is the correct one?
The easy answer is in the intention – if the result is GOOD and brings TRUE benefit to ALL persons (using it) then it’s the correct
interpretation. On the other hand if the result is chaos, confusion, misery, violation of the stated rules and even injury / death to any person
(using it) then obviously the interpretation is wrong. Do you agree? You can apply this principle to any discipline – including the Bible.
The advantage that we have though with the Bible is that it's Author – is Living! We can always approach him any time through prayer. This is also
the REASON why the Bible – the Word Of God is INFALLIBLE, because the Owner, the Creator, the Author is Living. Whatever is written in there
especially with regards to the future will be fulfilled. It will come true. He has furnished a guaranty past, present and future.
Another important thing remember also is that the Bible interprets itself. That is, we can understand the meaning of a text by looking at other text
(in the Bible) to arrive at the correct meaning. In other words it originates with God.
“For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s
will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.” (2 Peter 1:20-21)
SO makes sense?
This is just one of the many reasons why my faith and my confidence on Jehovah God (YHWH), his son Jesus Christ and his word the Bible are well
founded for again it confirms the fact that Creation is the Reality!
Now I’m glad that you’re in the choir (so to speak) but I wish that you have the same faith that I have if not more than I have on the Creator and
his word. For it will open up to you more possibilities and realities.
Next post I’ll show some fantastic inventions / creations – see if you can identify the true creator.
edit on 28-4-2011 by edmc^2 because: puff of smoke added