Why I believe Creation is factually accurate – The Reality!

reply to post by uva3021



Atheists, As to whom they disagree with, Just like little children, if they cannot win the argument, they just start name calling...

To set a better example, let us take up the evolutionist's burden of evidence to see where it leads. Our first observation is that apparently all functions in a living organism are based largely upon the structures of its proteins. The trail of the first cell therefore leads us to the microbiological geometry of amino acids and a search for the probability of creating a protein by mindless chance as specified by evolution. Hubert Yockey published a monograph on the microbiology, information theory, and mathematics necessary to accomplish that feat. Accordingly, the probability of evolving one molecule of iso-1-cytochrome c, a small protein common in plants and animals, is an astounding one chance in 2.3 times ten billion vigintillion. The magnitude of this impossibility may be appreciated by realizing that ten billion vigintillion is one followed by 75 zeros. Or to put it in evolutionary terms, if a random mutation is provided every second from the alleged birth of the universe, then to date that protein molecule would be only 43% of the way to completion. Yockey concluded, "The origin of life by chance in a primeval soup is impossible in probability in the same way that a perpetual motion machine is impossible in probability."7

Richard Dawkins implicitly agreed with Yockey by stating, "Suppose we want to suggest, for instance, that life began when both DNA and its protein-based replication machinery spontaneously chanced to come into existence. We can allow ourselves the luxury of such an extravagant theory, provided that the odds against this coincidence occurring on a planet do not exceed 100 billion billion to one."8The 100 billion billion is 1020. So Dawkins' own criterion for impossible in probability, one chance in more than 1020, has been exceeded by 50 orders of magnitude for only one molecule of one small protein. Now that Professor Dawkins has joined the ranks of non-believers in evolution, politesse forbids inquiring whether he considers himself "ignorant, stupid, insane, or wicked."

www.icr.org...

reply to post by Faith2011


Oh really?
I guess that statement means you've never bothered to study actual science.

reply to post by Faith2011


So your argument boils down to sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "LALALALALA EVOLUTION IS A LIE" without providing anything more than copy/pastes from already debunked creationist sources?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and dominion, for You created all things; by Your will they were [brought into being] and were created. Revelation 4:11


Evolution is based in total deception....


Genesis 3:1 Fallen Lucifer, In the form of the serpent has been deceiving mankind from the beginning...The father of all Lies...And no wonder!

The phrase “god of this world” (or “god of this age”2 Corinthians 4:4) indicates that Satan is the major influence on the mind-set expressed by the ideals, opinions, goals, hopes and views of the majority of people. His areas of influence also encompass the world’s philosophies, education, and commerce. The thoughts, ideas, speculations and false religions of the world are under his control and have sprung from his lies and deceptions.

Similar titles are found elsewhere in Scripture concerning Satan. Satan is called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is called the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles, and many more attributed to Satan throughout Scripture, signify his capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

(You Need The Holy Spirit, To See And Hear Truth...Understanding Reality)

reply to post by Faith2011


And more preaching

How about you back up your claims with objective evidence for a change...'cause if you don't, all you accomplish is making us laugh

PS: Just FYI, the bible isn't objective proof. Figured I should tell you again so you can save yourself from having to copy/paste random bible quotes. It's only proof of what people believed 2,000 years ago, based on their (compared to today) limited knowledge of how the world works.

reply to post by MrXYZ



You have nothing but false hope's, In wishing there is no Creator! You can make believe all you want, It will not

change The Truth! GOD Almighty is Not on Trial...

Originally posted by Faith2011
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

You have nothing but false hope's, In wishing there is no Creator! You can make believe all you want, It will not

change The Truth! GOD Almighty is Not on Trial...

And more preaching

And I don't wish there was no creator...I just don't believe in him/her/it because there's ZERO evidence that proves his/her/its existence, just like I don't believe in unicorns or sun gods

Hi Crimsonhead –

By ‘God’ presumably you mean YHWH the post Exilic clan god of Yisro’el? You did know, didn‘t you, that the ‘old testament’ is rife with literature stolen (or more politely, ‘adapted’) from the myriad of non Yahwistic cults of the many Canaanite and Levantine gods that were amalgamated into a single deity (of sorts) by Ezra in the 5th century BCE?

Or by ‘God’ do you mean ELOHIM? Or do you mean EL Shaddai? Or do you mean the pagan god Ashur, (the god of the Assyrian invaders. Cc. 722 BCE) you know, the one with the 4 faces (one like unto an Eagle, one like a Son of Man, one like an Ox, and one like a Lion – sound familiar? If not, rRead Hezekiel chapter 1 and chapter 10 then)?

Or do you mean the Canaanite god El-Elyon? Or do you mean the Elamite ‘Eloah’ of Job’s poem? Or do you mean El-Berit? Or just plain old EL, the Bull god of the cannanites? These were all different preIsraelite and Levantine Canaanite clan gods that were merged into a single clan god by the time of Ezra (c. 440 BCE) just as before in Egypt the gods Amon and Re were joined into a single god to become you guessed it, Amon-Re.
When separate priestly cults of one clan-god joined (or were forced to join by politics / war !) other priestly cult centers of other gods in antiquity, that is what you get double barreled clan gods as a single deity

The same would be when 'Susan Smith' marries 'Tommy Jones' she wouldd then sometimes write her name out as Susan Smith-Jones – or when LUCENT is bought out by ALCATEL, they demanded that the new entity be called LUCENT-ALCATEL as part of the agreement, etc.)

But you seem to bandy about the name ‘god’ as if it has any meaning at all, so do be specific as to which ancient clan-god you refer in your posts.

By your generically using the term ‘God’ always to refer to say YHWH -would be like me discussing American History and always referring to, say, Grover Cleveland as The President, as if other presidents never ever existed before or after.

But there were many US Presidents, all with different names, and we must use their names in order to differentiate between them.

Names are very useful things...use them and use them carefully !

Before examining the canon of the Jews before Javneh in AD 90, try to understand that what later became ‘Christianity’ (or as scholars to-day say, ‘all the various Christianities’ that sprouted up in Asia and later in Europe) was a tiny Jewish Messianic Movement that was in full swing off expansioneven while the Dead Sea Scrolls were being copied (the caves were sealed in AD 68, barely 5 years after the death of Sha’oul of Tarsus in Cilicia, aka Paul) and that the original followers of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean Nazir (aka Iesous) were all Palestinian Jews who had direct contact with such Messianic groups, and shared much of their literature.

These original ‘Ebionim’ (poor ones) headed up by Yakkov bar Yosef (ha Tsaddiq or ‘James the Lord’s Brother, called the Righteous’) after the execution of his brother for armed sedition against the state during ‘The Insurrection’ (AD 36, at Pesach during the 100th anniversary of the Invasion of Judaea by the Romans in BCE 63), were also called Nazoreans because they chose their Meqqaberim (‘overseers’ Greek ‘Epi-skopoi’ i.e. bishops in English) from the blood line of the Daviddic Dynasty (Natzir - ‘the Branch of David’ see Zechariah 6:9 Behold the Man who is called The Nazir – he is the one who shall rebuild the Temple !’ - sound familiar? )

The Nazorean Ebionim were the original ‘Christian’ blood-liners, and had the ‘authority’ to bark orders to leadwers/founders of other splinter Messianic ‘Chirsitian’ groups, including Paul’s gentile churches in Asia Minor much to his chagrin (read the opening of Acts chapter 15 and the vitriol against the Nazorean disciples he penned in Galatians chapter 2) at least before Rome ground Judaea into powder in AD 70. After that most of the Nazoreans were killed off, and Paul’s anti Kosher anti Circumcision, Anti James anti Ebionite ‘Christian’ churches took over with their own peculiar theology of ‘salvatioin by faith alone’ (as opposed to salvation by Ma’aseh / Mitzvoth or ‘salvation by works’ as we see in the ‘Epistle of James’)

A close reading of the Dead Sea scrolls shows that the Nazoreans and Ebionites were so close as to almost be of the same group. One of the nicknames of the Qumran covenanters who wrote the scrolls was in fact the very word, haEvionim (‘the poor ones’) – so Nazorean (‘Jesus-James’) early Ebionite Christianity and the Scrolls were two groups very closely related (Paul was a few steps removed, having been born in what is to-day Turkey)

The fact that Shaul of Tarsus in Cilicia (aka Paul) and the writer of the book of Acts described the earliest Christians as ‘Followers of the Way’ should tell you something about the Messianic Ossim (Gk. Essenoi) and the Ebionite-Nazorean Christian community some of whose members certainly came from their number.

Therefore it is not very surprising then to discover that ‘Yohanon bar Zechariah’ (aka John the Baptist) preached his camel hair draped Messianic message ‘in the Wilderness of Judaea’ = the small area around Qumran (ancient ‘Secaccah’) the exact spot where the Dead Sea Scrolls were being copied, and that the message of the Qumran Zadokites (who went by 22 different titles, e.g. The Sons of Light, The Followers of the Way, ‘Ossim- Doers of the Law, the Pious Ones, etc.) found amongst the scrolls overlap Nazorean Ebionite Christian doctrine very closely at times (read the Epistle of James in the NT, which reads nearly like a Greek-translated Dead Sea Scroll in peculiar vocabulary, content, Weltanschauung, sentence length, phraseology, theology and ‘style of utterance’)

As for the Judaeans regarding ‘the scroll of the book of the Words of Henoch’ (i.e. I Henoch chapters 1-36 and also chapters 72-104) as ‘holy’ (i.e. ‘defiling the hands’ i.e. pre-canonical) we only have to look at their ‘pesherim’ (‘line by line commentaries on Scripture’) found among the Dead Sea scroll material –
Judaeans of the 1st century (both BC and CE) wrote these lengthy ‘commentaries’ on their holy scriptures in separate scrolls (‘pesherim’) but never on books they did NOT consider ‘defiling the hands’; so we have pesherim on the Psalms, pesherim on the Torah, pesherim on some of the prophets e.g. Habakkuk, , Nahum and all the three of the Isaiahs (chapters 1-39 (proto-Isaiah), 40-55 (deutero-Is) and chapters 56-66 (trito-Isaiah) were all three penned by different hands) etc.

Here is an example of the PESHER style: with the pesher portion written in [brackets]

e.g. As Moses wrote, ‘The Angels off Heaven shall fight with you, therefore have no fear of them…’
[Interpreted, this refers to all the Sons of the covenant of Light who shall fight all the sons of Darkness in the Last Days when all the Sons of Belial shall come to naught…’]

Sometimes in a given pesher in the scrolls, the actual word for ‘interpreted’ is left out at the beginning of the formula, thus pesher might begin with [‘now these are evildoers who shall fight against all the Followers of the Way in the Last Days,even they who follow after the lusts of their own hearts…]

And this is exactly what we see in the very dead sea scroll sounding text of Jude 1:14-16 quoting The Scroll of the Words of Henoch in the Last Days as canonical holy ‘defiling the hands’ authoritative scripture worthy of Pesher treatment–they never wrote pesherim on any text that was not – and just to show you the PESHER portion of the text, I have put it in Brackets below: (but it would help you see what I am talking about if you could read 1st century Koine Greek !)

QUOTE : Epistle of Jude vv. 14-16

Even Henoch the Seventh generation from Adam, wrote when he prophesied of these men ,

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, in order to execute judgment upon all sinful flesh and to reveal to the ungodly among them of all their wicked deeds which the sinners have committed, and of all their hard words which the ungodly evil doers have spoken against him.

[Now these are the Murmurers, the complainers and the walkers after their own lusts; their mouth speaks boastful words, having men's persons in admiration for the sake of gain…]

And what did scholars find lying among the pesherim of the prophets among the Dead Sea Scrolls?

Shock and Awe !

They found thousands of fragments of ‘pesherim’, many pesherim clearly written to comment on the Scroll of the Words of Henoch and also hundreds of fragments of ‘pesherim’ on the Testament of Moses (‘Book of Jubilees’) and many fragments ‘pesherim’ on the Testament of the 12 Patriarchs lying right beside fragments of ‘pesherim’ on the prophet Joel and Amos (all in the highly secretive Cave 4 at Qumran, the contents which are even now not completely published…)

All of which show beyond any reasonable doubt that that the Dead Sea Scroll Messianic Covenanters (Essenoi or Heb. ‘Ossim’ – ‘Doers’ of the Law aka ‘The Followers of the Way’ etc.) regarded The Words of Henoch and The Book of Jubilees (=Testament of Moses) and Testament of the 12 Patriarchs as ‘canonical’ in their own minds (there was never a more or less official worldwide Council of Jews on this subject of what exact books ‘defiled the hands’ before the Rabinnic Council of Javneh in AD 90 however).

So there IS proof after all (not as you claim 'ZERO PROOF' - you need to look at what is known as Evidence) that the Qumran Dead Sea Scroll sect as late as AD 68 regarded the later 'non canonical' (addditional books of the 'bible') as 'canonical' as worthy of Pesher treatment, just as the Coptic Nazorrean Ebionite Christians living in Alexandria (one of the earliest and MOST important of all the Christian movements beginning in the 1st century AD) as well as the Syriac Nazorean churches regarded Jubilees, Testament of the 12 and I Henoch as 'canonical' i.e. defiling the hands - despite the fact that Javneh Council rebbes rejected them.

Don't forget that they were not alone: the compilers of the 4th century CODEX SINAITICUS also included in their 'canonical bible' a few additional books from the OT Apocrypha-Pseudipigrapha as well e.g. 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, 1 & 4 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon and the Wisdom of Jesus Ben Sirach (=Ecclesiasticus) - all of which were dropped from the Protestant and Jewish canon (i.e. eventually..)

I’ll leave your jejune discussion re: of course Jesus had a bible, he’s god’s son !’ out for now since it does not warrant intelligent discussion – you seem to think that since you believe he is ‘god’s son’ (whatever that means) he must have had the same book you read to-day between two covers to work with –utterly illogical thinking and flies in the face of the facts that scholars have discovered in the wilderness of Judaea – scrolls of the Hebrew scriptures that were being copied out while ‘Jesus’ was still alive – and the versions of all those 800 books do not match very closely the much more select list of later versions that were voted in post Javneh ‘as those which defile the hands’ by any stretch !

Here’s your own reading list – so you too can catch up on things (all available on Amazon.com) just so you’ll know I’m not just making stuff up out of thin air—most are written for the ‘general reader’ except the 1st one which is more for scholarly types conversant in ancient and modern languages – there’s 500 more books for you to read, but this is a start…

THE EARLIEST TEXT OF THE HEBREW BIBLE (edited by Adrian Shenker, Society of Biblical Literature, Atlanta GA, 2003 - ISBN #1-58983-081-4)

RESCUING THE BIBLE FROM FUNDAMENTALISM (by Rev. John Shelby Spong, Bishop of Newark NJ, 1991) [published by Harper San Francisco, ISBN #0-06-067509]

THE ORTHODOX CORRUPTION OF SCRIPTURE (by Bart D. Ehrman, Oxford University Press, NY, 1993 ISBN # 0-19-508078-5] and also by Ehrman, JESUS INTERRUPTED, pub. Harper-Collins, 2009, ISBN 978-0-06-117393-6]

THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS and the JEWISH ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY (by Carsten Peter Thiede, 2001, pub. by Palgrave, NY ISBN - #0-312-29361-5]

Originally posted by Faith2011
(You Need The Holy Spirit, To See And Hear Truth...Understanding Reality)

Alright so I can't see or hear the truth because I don't have holy spirit. So how do I get some?

I'm sitting here with blinders and the only thing that can take them off is the holy spirit, but it isn't happening. So if I'm still being deceived who's fault is that?

reply to post by daskakik


For anyone to really understand Creation - Life - God! They must be born Spiritually / Connected To God in Spirit...

Then we can begin anew, And will be better able to See things From God's Perspective...It takes Time and is a daily process...No One Will Be Perfected, As Long As We Are In These Fleshly Bodies And Living in a Fallen World System. Through God's Saving Grace - Salvation by Faith Alone "HE" Can Transform our Fallen Nature and Prepare Us For New Life in HIS Kingdom... (Heaven)

"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again" (John 3:1-7).

One of The Best Examples... On Forgiveness and Salvation -

Luke 23:39-43

[39] One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

[40] But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? [41] We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

[42] Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

[43] Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

reply to post by Faith2011


Why do you continue preaching instead of really adding to the discussion?

reply to post by Faith2011

Sorry the reason for my post was to show that the lord has placed me in a catch 22. I can't see the truth because I don't believe but I don't believe because I can't see the truth. The verses you post don't mean anything to me.

Talked to some guys spreading the good word and I explained my position. They said that no one can convince anyone else only the holy spirit. It touches mens hearts and let's them know. That is similar to what you wrote. The thing that came to my mind was that according to that idea there is nothing I, you or anyone can do to prove the truth. Only the spirit can do this and if it hasn't touched my heart then who are you to say I or any atheist as being stubborn, foolish, naive or anything which would imply that there is anything that we can do about it?

I asked, who's to blame? I blame the holy spirit for being slow then again according to those who belive it's all part of the plan. Then why do you all fight so hard against it?

reply to post by daskakik


Well there is hope for you and anyone who is even thinking of the possibility of knowing God! In most case's a person could be on and off about how they feel, even if possible to believe in God. The bottom line, It is a personal
knowing within everyone...As I prayed, And asked for salvation. The next morning I opened the Bible and started reading, And I Knew It Was True! The Void of Emptiness Was Gone and I Had Peace. Everyone is different and
sometimes people have to hit rock-bottom. But, the good-news is people from all different back-rounds are connecting to The Reality of God Everyday! As long as were alive there's Hope, Even if someone has the slightest
interest to know, There is Hope!

reply to post by Faith2011

No there's no hope for me but I don't feel empty or a void. I am at peace.

I think that the faithful feel peace in believing that they know the truth and that they will be safe from damnation. I have come to accept that what a person believes makes no difference in what will come in this life or whatever awaits after it, it's on it's way just the same.

reply to post by daskakik


So what do you think will happen to you, when you die?

reply to post by Faith2011

You rot in the ground Faith2011

But it doesn't bother us because we descended from organisms where rotting in the ground was of no concern. Any organism that constantly ruminated on rotting inside the ground would surely have perished by now

reply to post by Faith2011


Honestly, I don't know. It may be that there is nothing else. Of course there could be something. If this something has an element of judgment I would hope that my actions would be judged as an individual and that I would not be held accountable for the actions of those that came before me. This would also mean that I would not need the sacrifice of the lamb of god.

If belief in your god is of importance then all I could say is that he should have done a better job at getting the message through. I mean according to some of your posts in this thread he actually appointed someone to lie to us and lead us away from him. Again, how can it be our fault when this master of lies leads us astray?

reply to post by Faith2011


Okay...so we've established that you think evolution is a deception...but where is your evidence that the mountains upon mountains upon mountains upon mountains of data, experimentation, and scientific publication that prove evolution is false?

reply to post by Faith2011


I don't care whether or not a 'creator' exists, I care whether or not what I believe conforms with the evidence. I don't want to conform evidence to my belief, which is what you're trying to do by ignoring the mountains of science that object to your beliefs.

reply to post by daskakik


We all need JESUS! Thanks for being Honest! I hope you make it To Heaven!

God put His own Son to death to take the punishment for believing sinners: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).