God can not judge us. Life is defined by equations

I have this theory I'm struggling to put into a simple understandable way. I will try explain it and hopefully others can see it too.

Everything that we are now, everything that defines us is based on our past experiences. Put simply, Mum + Dad= Child. That child would be born into a race, culture, language etc, all pre-defined by the parents genetic code and lifeline and whatever that child "encountered" or picked up in upbringing.

If that child grew to be a murderer and at the time the murder is a "choice". I want to express that the choice is not actually a choice but is a result of the pre existing equation that led up to that result.

Human decision is based on pre encounters throughout life. For every decision there is an equation that led to that choice.
The decision is determined by the equation and therefore is not a decision but is a result.

A murderer is created from pre encounters that led up to that result.
Whether a person is christian, athiest, agnostic is not choice. It is determined by the pre encounters that led up to that result.

There is no choice, there is only equation = result.

It might seem like life is complex and it really is because there are soo many things out there that will result in the outcome of something else. Things constantly colliding, merging, becoming something new but whatever results is going to be determined by whatever causes/encounters led up to that result.

So put in the simplest way, lets say a human life starts at zero. Then as it rises up and it picks up language(A), manner(B), Education(Y,II,F,Er,W) constantly becoming more diverse the more things it encounters. Now look at any stage in that humans life and the result is................ Determined by the equation. You can not change the equation, life is in a single time line is linear. What we think we can choose or become we can not. If you want to be an athlete, it's because an equation led up to that desire. Whether the result is achieved or not is based on positions.

Therefore, god can not judge a person for what they become. We have no control over the outcome, every choice, every thought, every result is defined by equations. Basically, we have a history that can be tracked back to zero.

That's why evolution is fact. Whether we were created by aliens or not, what equations led to the result of aliens creating us? Or what equation led to life on earth. Big Bang + element colliding with elements creating new complexities colliding with other factors all spiralling towards life resulting on earth. Bacteria becoming bugs or animals, apes leading to humans, etc.

The more things in the equation, the more diverse the result will be..Get what I mean?

Edit: And before anyone argues creation. Look at quantum science. How they created something that moves and doesn't move at the same time. So track life back to zero where there is nothing, but something at the same time. A+B=C. Then C+A=@, while at the same time C+B=%. Everything constantly multiplying with itself, constantly merging becoming something new and adding to itself. Constantly becoming more complex. A computer program can probably easily replicate this theory. So you can see how easily life can be understood.

reply to post by nightrun

wow really nice concept. Put "I am that I am" in an equation........something equals something, which is everything which is ??nothing.....in the end. In the bible Gods says I am that I am ..........mathematically speaking that is x=y
This thread has me thinking way too deeply this late but it is a great thread and one I hope others participate in. NICE ideas and they stimulate thought.........we may learn something here.

A rebellious people want to believe a lie. Isaiah’s message to his nation was that their continued rebellion against God would be the ruin of the nation. Sin would not only destroy their personal lives, it would destroy their country. Sin brings judgment — always. Isaiah was warning them about what was going to happen if they did not turn from their sin and turn back to God, but the people did not want to hear it. They did not want to hear about God’s judgment, they wanted to hear about God’s love and blessing. They wanted Isaiah to build up their self-esteem. They wanted a positive gospel. And even though Isaiah was telling them the truth, they preferred to believe a lie. Why would people prefer disaster to the truth? Because this is the essence of rebellion: I am going to do it my way even if it kills me.

But even though the rebellious want to believe a lie, they also want to dodge the consequences. Here is Isaiah’s second point: A rebellious people want to escape responsibility. The people of Isaiah’s day did not want to follow God, but they also did not want there to be any consequences for their rebellious behavior. It reminds us of the world of movies and television. James Bond, Rambo, and all the other action heroes can do all kinds of outrageous things and no physical harm happens to them. Movie characters can also have countless sexual liaisons and never get a sexually transmitted disease. They can use drugs and drink constantly and never be affected. It is the surreal world where no one has to accept the consequences of their behavior. We want to have our sin, and enjoy it too. This was the case with the people of Israel and Judah. They rebelled against the Holy One of Israel. They trampled God’s laws and had the gall to blame God when the enemy trampled their cities. They wanted to do as they pleased, but they did not want to accept responsibility for their actions.

Evolution, although it is an unproved and improvable theory – particularly when it gets into the origin of life – has falsely been taught in our schools as established fact. On the other hand, intelligent design in nature and in the universe has been recognized throughout history and by most if not all of our greatest minds in history. It is quite obvious in nature to anyone who approaches it with a little common sense. Nevertheless evolutionists continually fight having nature's intelligent design taught in our schools, and have been very successful in their opposition. The reason they fight it is because design indicates a designer; and evolutionists want us to believe that everything that has occurred in our universe and life itself came about by accident. These people truly live in a world of make-believe.

Originally posted by nightrun

God can not judge us.

This statement is amusing. Assuming God is what people profess, then we do not define what God can or can not do.

People are created.

Creator sets the tone.

Peace

What is, is. When I watch others speak their mind, I can see the grain of truth within each statement, no matter how mundane or advanced it is, and see the rest of it being distorted by the ego/subconscious/the blocks we all have.

In this case though, you seem to also realize a bit of that therefore the grain of truth is a bit bigger then the rest. It's hard to explain the free-will situation. I don't think we have it no, but you can work up to it, such as from being average joe to a somebody. There's a lesson in everything and a 'divine' plan. Even from what people view as a sadistic killer to someone helping another person.

What happens happens and cannot be undone no matter how badly the mind wants a different situation then it. The mind is it be cherished at the same time to tap into the subconscious but discipline is required to keep the ego in check, ergo primal instincts.

reply to post by nightrun


GOD Created Equations . GOD = 1

Originally posted by nightrun
I have this theory I'm struggling to put into a simple understandable way. I will try explain it and hopefully others can see it too.

Everything that we are now, everything that defines us is based on our past experiences. Put simply, Mum + Dad= Child. That child would be born into a race, culture, language etc, all pre-defined by the parents genetic code and lifeline and whatever that child "encountered" or picked up in upbringing.

If that child grew to be a murderer and at the time the murder is a "choice". I want to express that the choice is not actually a choice but is a result of the pre existing equation that led up to that result.

Human decision is based on pre encounters throughout life. For every decision there is an equation that led to that choice.
The decision is determined by the equation and therefore is not a decision but is a result.

A murderer is created from pre encounters that led up to that result.
Whether a person is christian, athiest, agnostic is not choice. It is determined by the pre encounters that led up to that result.

There is no choice, there is only equation = result.

It might seem like life is complex and it really is because there are soo many things out there that will result in the outcome of something else. Things constantly colliding, merging, becoming something new but whatever results is going to be determined by whatever causes/encounters led up to that result.

So put in the simplest way, lets say a human life starts at zero. Then as it rises up and it picks up language(A), manner(B), Education(Y,II,F,Er,W) constantly becoming more diverse the more things it encounters. Now look at any stage in that humans life and the result is................ Determined by the equation. You can not change the equation, life is in a single time line is linear. What we think we can choose or become we can not. If you want to be an athlete, it's because an equation led up to that desire. Whether the result is achieved or not is based on positions.

Therefore, god can not judge a person for what they become. We have no control over the outcome, every choice, every thought, every result is defined by equations. Basically, we have a history that can be tracked back to zero.

That's why evolution is fact. Whether we were created by aliens or not, what equations led to the result of aliens creating us? Or what equation led to life on earth. Big Bang + element colliding with elements creating new complexities colliding with other factors all spiralling towards life resulting on earth. Bacteria becoming bugs or animals, apes leading to humans, etc.

The more things in the equation, the more diverse the result will be..Get what I mean?

Edit: And before anyone argues creation. Look at quantum science. How they created something that moves and doesn't move at the same time. So track life back to zero where there is nothing, but something at the same time. A+B=C. Then C+A=@, while at the same time C+B=%. Everything constantly multiplying with itself, constantly merging becoming something new and adding to itself. Constantly becoming more complex. A computer program can probably easily replicate this theory. So you can see how easily life can be understood.

edit on 7/4/2011 by nightrun because: Added more

Is the short version of what your saying ,
1. that your past or rather what happens to you in your past, ultimately determines your future and how you will behave?

2. that because of something that happened to you, you should not be held accountable for your own actions?

If the above is indeed the short version, let's deal with #1 many people have had tragic and horrible things happen to them, but they still became good and decent people who never harms anyone, so how does this fit?
Then you also have cases of people who grew up in wonderful,and loving homes who have had no hardships to speak of, but still end up as monsters.

#2 I don't think you would feel the same way about it, about someone who grew up poor and went to bed every night hungry,then have nothing but hardships their whole adult life, then one day they decide they have had enough of going without,you come home and find that everything that you have worked hard for has been stolen by them, let's say they are caught, it goes to court, they tell you of their tragic life and your gonna say, that's ok ,right?

reply to post by nightrun


Your thinking is flawed because the universe is ruled by laws that govern both the positive and negitive..
Because God implemented the equations for the argument you have chosen to provide us, I would think you should have also been able to come to the conclusion that only God would have the answers to the test.
So in the end only he can judge you...

Originally posted by infojunkie2
Is the short version of what your saying ,
1. that your past or rather what happens to you in your past, ultimately determines your future and how you will behave?

2. that because of something that happened to you, you should not be held accountable for your own actions?

Yes to both. As to the rest of your response, what I'm saying is everything basically has a history/eqution. Whether you are rich or poor, murderer or hero, it's defined by an equation. A very complex equation but it's simple to understand the concept.

Basically, what causes led up to a person being the way they are. Can they be held accountable? Yes, by others humans of course. By god? No. So why is this?
Society the way it is structured right now, creates it's own monsters. People are products of society. My argument not only explains current human beings, but also explains that equations and interactions also explain everything back as far as we can track. It's the same concept as physics, that nature has an equation. Everything does.

Gods laws can not apply to man because man is a product of equation. Societies laws apply to man because we would not function as a society otherwise. If people didn't pull together and create laws then this kind of society would fall apart. Ya know? Basically money breeds greed and criminals. Is it anyones fault that we were born into a society that has been in development for the past few millions years?

Is any of this a choice? Are animals judged? Is it a sin that there are meat eating animals that prey on other life forms? Or is it that there are equations and reasons that that action occurs?

Originally posted by 5StarOracle
reply to post by nightrun

 

Your thinking is flawed because the universe is ruled by laws that govern both the positive and negitive..
Because God implemented the equations for the argument you have chosen to provide us, I would think you should have also been able to come to the conclusion that only God would have the answers to the test.
So in the end only he can judge you...

but.. Laws fall under the same concept. There's equations that make those laws. If you were to say god created all those laws, at what stage are people saying this happened? Did he create a beginning, was the equation always in motion, or did he place human life right in the middle of a soup bowl? Because it seems very odd to me to suggest that human life matters more than all the other complexities of this universe. This 1 planet, of all the planets, humans be judged for the accidents and chaos they are born into.

But no matter which way you look at it, even if there was a god and he set all this into motion. All actions are explainable by equations. If you had the right perceptions and understandings you would be able to backtrack a person whole lifetime. But in order to do that you would need to be able to locate all the facts, ALL facts, because every single molecule makes a difference. But the result will always be what it will be.

Right and wrong is only perception. Perception is only function. Function is only from mechanisms. All spirals down and down through equations.

Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by nightrun

God can not judge us.

This statement is amusing. Assuming God is what people profess, then we do not define what God can or can not do.

People are created.

Creator sets the tone.

Peace

This is very interesting because if god himself does not understand why a person is the way they are, then what does that mean for god? How can I possibly have a better understanding than god does?

Breaking that whole comment down though:

Assuming God is what people profess, then we do not define what God can or can not do.

Results are created.

Equation sets the tone.

It's pretty obvious that humans created the perceptions of god. Whether he is there or not, everything about him was defined by humans. If he played any hand during human life, he is solely to blame for the outcome of every single human being and every action resulting from them. But, if he put everything in motion and human life resulted as well as millions of other life forms (which we are surrounded by), then great. But ultimately, it does not matter whether god exists or not.

I've always likened it to a cake or cart

If you or I build a cart and we build it improperly so that the cart overturns in a ditch, who's at fault -- you or the cart ?

You are, obviously. You have total responsibility for the failure of that cart to match your expectations

If you or I bake a cake and for whatever reason (poor ingredients, improperly set oven, etc.) that cake is a failure, who's fault is that failure -- your's or the cake's ? Your fault, obviously. The cake will only be as good as you make it

It's the same with humanity. We're links on a chain. Everything we are is determined by our DNA and this becomes more obvious daily as DNA research discovers such things as the ' Warrior Gene' as announced the other day. That gene determins aggression etc. in all its forms and is responsible for most of the ghastly crimes ever to occur

Years ago, I accepted without question that ' Nurture' was the predominant force in our development, i.e., the way we're raised, the things which happen to us, etc.

I wanted to believe that - wanted to believe that babies were born as almost blank slates and that even those negative inherited traits could be ameliorated via good parenting, good education, good environment, etc.

Now, being very much older and having observed both Nature and Nurture in action AND having seen the imprint they did or did not leave on the growing and then end product, I state that beyond all doubt, Nature is by far the stronger influence

Everything we are, from the colour of our eyes to our predisposition to depression or our talent for drawing, is determined at the moment of conception -- is inherited from the millions of ancestors we each have

At the moment of conception, it's a lucky-dip similar to the Lottery balls bouncing in the perspex sphere before one makes it down the tube with the potential to change one or more people's lives

That's why two brothers can be as unalike as chalk and cheese

It's why families who provide superior education and training, opportunities etc., nevertheless produce criminals and killers

Had another sperm won the race to fertilize the egg, or had our mothers conceived at a different hour, different night -- we would be entirely different to the way we are now

Each of our ancestral chains contains millions of individuals and it is they, and not the sort of bedtime stories we heard or the school we attended, which determined who and what we are. The blueprint is set in our flesh and bones and brains, at the moment of conception. The best Nurture can do is smooth off the edges a bit

You can call it an equation or whatever you like, but in the end we return to one thing --- God, if he exists and has any interest at all -- cannot judge us, cannot sentence us to an eternity of hellfire

No, God -- if he/she is a god worth bothering about -- can only apologise wholeheartedly to us, and applaud us, and reward us for enduring our sentence on Earth. Because if God claims to be our creator, then it is God alone who is responsible for the way we are

This won't appeal to those who choose to believe the writings of men thousands of years ago and who needed to create a Boogey-Man-In-The-Sky to keep the natives in line with horror tales of judgement and punishments


.

Originally posted by nightrun

Originally posted by infojunkie2
Is the short version of what your saying ,
1. that your past or rather what happens to you in your past, ultimately determines your future and how you will behave?

2. that because of something that happened to you, you should not be held accountable for your own actions?

Yes to both. As to the rest of your response, what I'm saying is everything basically has a history/eqution. Whether you are rich or poor, murderer or hero, it's defined by an equation. A very complex equation but it's simple to understand the concept.

Basically, what causes led up to a person being the way they are. Can they be held accountable? Yes, by others humans of course. By god? No. So why is this?
Society the way it is structured right now, creates it's own monsters. People are products of society. My argument not only explains current human beings, but also explains that equations and interactions also explain everything back as far as we can track. It's the same concept as physics, that nature has an equation. Everything does.

Gods laws can not apply to man because man is a product of equation. Societies laws apply to man because we would not function as a society otherwise. If people didn't pull together and create laws then this kind of society would fall apart. Ya know? Basically money breeds greed and criminals. Is it anyones fault that we were born into a society that has been in development for the past few millions years?

Is any of this a choice? Are animals judged? Is it a sin that there are meat eating animals that prey on other life forms? Or is it that there are equations and reasons that that action occurs?

Good luck with that when you meet your maker, as far as animals go,although they can be trained by humans,they live by instinct,knowing neither right or wrong.

Originally posted by Dock9
I've always likened it to a cake or cart

If you or I build a cart and we build it improperly so that the cart overturns in a ditch, who's at fault -- you or the cart ?

You are, obviously. You have total responsibility for the failure of that cart to match your expectations

But you see, if we succeed or fail depends entirely on what we are made from, what we resulted from. Like what specific school you went to, what you were taught, what you remembered, what abilities your genetic code gave you. It's all in the equation that leads up to that point. The entire experience.

Like, imagine rolling a sticky ball in a straight line and it picks up things along the way. By itself, it can not alter the course it's travelling, the things it picks up or bumps into alters the course. Whether it hits a twig or rolls down a hill. Ultimately the ball has no choice in it's path. Everything it encountered set it's path and it's path was linear from the moment it was set in motion to everything that came before the ball.

Originally posted by infojunkie2

Good luck with that when you meet your maker, as far as animals go,although they can be trained by humans,they live by instinct,knowing neither right or wrong.

How do animals have instinct. What equations and encounters led to that ability? It's not something they always had, it's something they acquired along the way.

Humans training animals leads to a whole variety of new results. When you really cut through all the chaos, the complexity, the whole concept is very easy to understand.

Nihilistic theory will get you no where, OP, but your arrogance will drag you down (as it did with Lucifer and some ancient civilizations).

Man's worst folly is when he believes he's greater than the infinity that ultimately created him.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
Nihilistic theory will get you no where, OP, but your arrogance will drag you down (as it did with Lucifer and some ancient civilizations).

Man's worst folly is when he believes he's greater than the infinity that ultimately created him.

lol nooo, I'm not arrogant for trying to explain life. For questioning existence. It's a theory, something I'm working on. . I know I've shot down some replies using my own understanding vs their's but I'm debating quite deeply with myself whether choice is an illusion or not. Like if I had to make a choice about something and the result was unexpected, can the unexpected result be explained by an equation.. But I'm thinking that you can't just pull something unexpected from nowhere. Like you can't pull yellow from combining red and blue alone.. Ya kno?

Something to think about..

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by nightrun

 

GOD Created Equations . GOD = 1

Dad+Mom = 3 billion pairs of nucleotide with millions of chemical base changes, you are born into a infinite set of conditions, a byproduct of your times in which = 1 you.

Thus
If God = 1 you are God, that would mean a current world population of 6.91 billion God's.
almost to the magic number 7......

reply to post by nightrun


Well this is the classic deterministic universe (cause and effect)/free will argument. Every action occurs due to some previous action and even your thoughts and therefore your actions are simply determined. You don't choose.

You don't even need to add God into the equation. The issue is already complicated enough. Look at the legal system itself. If a person has no free will then what right does a judge have to judge a murderer or a rapist? What right does a jury have to judge a murderer or a rapist? If God has no right to judge them, then certainly no man or women does either.

What are we supposed to do, let criminals run wild and do whatever they want? Who is to judge them? They had no choice!

It couldn't of happened any other way if the universe is purely 100% equation. If someone stole your car could you get mad at them? They couldn't help it, they had no choice right? Would the justice system change from a punishment system into more therapeutic rehabilitation system?

People don't like to talk about it. The number one reason is because the issue of the legal system gets brought up first before the judgement of God does and people don't want to let go of their revenge. And revenge is the key issue. SOMEONE MUST PAY!

When someone molests your kids or hacks into your bank account or clubs a baby seal over the head, people want revenge. They don't want the criminal fixed or rehabilitated. They want the criminal to pay! However, if the criminal can't control his actions because he has no real choice, then it wasn't really his fault. So, you can't really be mad at him. But if we forgive him, we'd actually be doing what the Bible told us to do? Oh the horror! Can't have that.

Our entire legal system has the concept of revenge and retribution and pay back for those who have done wrong built right into as one its main pillars. Because we all want it! I won't lie, even I have.

Once you bring up that nothing is anyone's fault anymore then everything changes. When we can no longer be angry with criminals, no longer seek revenge, but instead we would be expected to help them because they're not doing anything wrong. They're actually suffering under their own circumstances. They just can't control it. They need therapy, rehabilitation, care, and attention to be a better member of society.

Well nobody wants to hear that. When someone is a victim they want revenge!

So, that's where the conversation always ends and we say, NOPE! HE'S GOT FREE WILL! HE DIDN'T HAVE TO STEAL MY CAR! HE COULD HAVE MADE A BETTER CHOICE! But could he have?

So, what right does God have to judge us? Well look at how we judge each other. What right do we have to judge each other? Certainly if there is a God, when he looks down he must be saying, well if that's the way you wish to be treated then that is the way I will treat you. For if you people wish to be judged, then I will judge you!

Maybe before we start talking about God we should work on the way we judge each other first. It would probably solve so many problems that God wouldn't even have to judge us. For in the Bible it tells us not to judge others.

Perhaps if we get rid of our judgment and start helping each other, then perhaps God will do the same in turn. For what would he have to judge? That we helped each other too much? Cared for one another too much? If that were the case then I wouldn't be afraid to be judged!

But if everything is truly deterministic and there is a god then it doesn't matter if said god has a right to judge anyone anyway. It won't make a difference. Everything was already predetermined from the start and you're going to get judged anyway.

Because if I'm just a robot and don't have freewill, who's to say God is any different? Does God really have a choice if he judges us or not? Maybe he's unchanging and deterministic like the universe! Couldn't talk him out of it if we wanted to, and even if we could, well maybe that was predetermined too? Who's to say?