Stone Age Gender Bender: Was 5,000-Year-Old Skeleton Gay?

Originally posted by hp1229
Overall I feel that if there were benefits, societies around the world would have accepted it looooooooooong time ago rather than embracing as a new age idea. It all has everything to do with Vote Bank Politics in my opinion.

I think it has more to do with some folks basing their 21st century Western lives upon 3000 year old middle-eastern folk tales. Pass me another slice of that Easter Ham, will ya?

reply to post by hp1229

One cannot trust the scientific community completely as they're also infiltrated with political propogandists. Overall I feel that if there were benefits, societies around the world would have accepted it looooooooooong time ago rather than embracing as a new age idea.

I guess that is what we are trying to say here in this thread. Homosexuality is not some new age thing and was most likely far more accepted a loooooong time ago than it is today. The reason it is less accepted today has everything to do with religion -- religions that didn't exist way back when.

As far as scientific study goes, I agree with you. It is often politically or economically biased and done to suit somebody's agenda or other -- not always, but often enough. So then why not go with the heart? My heart tells me that my gay friends are OK, and that they have been good parents; although most of them have grown kids already. My conscience tells me I am OK and that I have some purpose for being here, a single, gay senior citizen who never had any kids. A lot of what we know we know from living and don't need a scientist, or preacher, to explain it or misrepresent it to us.

peace out

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by hp1229

 

Here's a little something to think about (I don't have a lot of time to post, so this is all I'll be able to add. It's just a link on wikipedia, a brief history of same-sex unions in history).

en.wikipedia.org...

True but somehow I am not too sure about Wikipedia and its brief information piece.

While I do not deny that homosexuality existed in ancient greece and other civilizations, I just dont think that it was a same sex marriage. More or Less it probably existed as a sexual and lifestyle preference.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by hp1229

 

One cannot trust the scientific community completely as they're also infiltrated with political propogandists. Overall I feel that if there were benefits, societies around the world would have accepted it looooooooooong time ago rather than embracing as a new age idea.

I guess that is what we are trying to say here in this thread. Homosexuality is not some new age thing and was most likely far more accepted a loooooong time ago than it is today. The reason it is less accepted today has everything to do with religion -- religions that didn't exist way back when.

As far as scientific study goes, I agree with you. It is often politically or economically biased and done to suit somebody's agenda or other -- not always, but often enough. So then why not go with the heart? My heart tells me that my gay friends are OK, and that they have been good parents; although most of them have grown kids already. My conscience tells me I am OK and that I have some purpose for being here, a single, gay senior citizen who never had any kids. A lot of what we know we know from living and don't need a scientist, or preacher, to explain it or misrepresent it to us.

peace out

I agree homosexuality is not a new age thing.

My only arguement is that GAY MARRIAGE is.

reply to post by hp1229


Well, yes, as it applies to the modern concept of marriage, but gay marriage has existed as long as regular marriage has. We live in a society that has a very different concept of many things based on our social evolution. What I wish people would do is realize that social norms can and should change in order to better fit a global perception.

Originally posted by hp1229
While I do not deny that homosexuality existed in ancient greece and other civilizations, I just dont think that it was a same sex marriage. More or Less it probably existed as a sexual and lifestyle preference.

Two ways in which 'preference' applies to homosexuality:
One, that one decides to act straight in fear of bias/bullying/small-minded reproof, and
Two, that one is bisexual.

In my opinion, to refer to 'choice', one must either be ignorant or, themselves, bisexual because to anybody else...gay or straight...choice is not an issue.

This thread is not about gay marriage, though. It is about anthropology and the immense range of the human condition...regardless of millennia-old Middle Eastern folk tales.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by hp1229

 

Well, yes, as it applies to the modern concept of marriage, but gay marriage has existed as long as regular marriage has. We live in a society that has a very different concept of many things based on our social evolution. What I wish people would do is realize that social norms can and should change in order to better fit a global perception.

How long ago did they exist?

Can you site to any links?

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by hp1229
While I do not deny that homosexuality existed in ancient greece and other civilizations, I just dont think that it was a same sex marriage. More or Less it probably existed as a sexual and lifestyle preference.

Two ways in which 'preference' applies to homosexuality:
One, that one decides to act straight in fear of bias/bullying/small-minded reproof, and
Two, that one is bisexual.

In my opinion, to refer to 'choice', one must either be ignorant or, themselves, bisexual because to anybody else...gay or straight...choice is not an issue.

This thread is not about gay marriage, though. It is about anthropology and the immense range of the human condition...regardless of millennia-old Middle Eastern folk tales.

Not really. The Romans and Greeks were involved with multiple orgies involving men and women. This is the choice of the libido. There was no bias/bullying/small-minded reproof. There open bisexual and homosexual men/women but definitely I do not think that there were Gay Marriage or Couples.

I do agree that this thread is not about gay marriage but I am merely responding to others responses and the thread seems to deviate towards the subject. I do agree that it is about the immense POSSIBLE range of the human conditon regardless of the millenia-old middle eastern folk tales.

Originally posted by hp1229
The Romans and Greeks were involved with multiple orgies involving men and women. This is the choice of the libido. There was no bias/bullying/small-minded reproof.

I donno about your libido, but I don't care what language they're speaking...I don't care to get into sexual situations with other men...and that goes a lot deeper than 'choice'.

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by hp1229

 

Well, yes, as it applies to the modern concept of marriage, but gay marriage has existed as long as regular marriage has. We live in a society that has a very different concept of many things based on our social evolution. What I wish people would do is realize that social norms can and should change in order to better fit a global perception.

How long ago did they exist?

Can you site to any links?

Afraid not. There appear to be records of homosexuality extending all the way back into Ancient Egypt, though some people dispute whether or not the two men were actually intimate or if they were just bonded while still having wives.

The problem is that history has been altered constantly by the "winners" or people who conquered. If anything present contradicts their beliefs, then it is considered heresy and is destroyed. Remember that thousands of texts were destroyed three times at the Library at Alexandria.

Before recorded history (what we have left of it), we can only make guesses, but since the present is created by the past, and homosexual tendencies seem to be something prevalent in the animal kingdom, even to the point of life-mates among some species, I believe it is safe to say that homosexuality is a natural effect of sexuality which has prevailed for as long as it matters for anyone.

Originally posted by Varemia
Originally posted by hp1229
Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by hp1229

 

homosexual tendencies seem to be something prevalent in the animal kingdom, even to the point of life-mates among some species

Which animal species in particular do you know or have witnessed? (Besides humans). I have seen dogs go at it when they get horny or atleast when one of them is horny as a DOG. Heck they even do it with legs and whatever they can grab onto. But I wouldn't call that a lifelong relationship with another male dog.
Any specific links or readings ?

reply to post by hp1229


Read this. It may bring to light some interesting information for you:

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by hp1229

 

Read this. It may bring to light some interesting information for you:

en.wikipedia.org...

I read it and not everything is conclusive.

It seems more biased and vague generalizations.

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by hp1229

 

Read this. It may bring to light some interesting information for you:

en.wikipedia.org...

I read it and not everything is conclusive.

It seems more biased and vague generalizations.

The point is that the behaviors have been witnessed which are so prominent in humans. We are just like other creatures, really. It is only our social and intellectual nature that separates us.

Originally posted by hdutton
I guess this is just another example of my ignorance but:

1) How can you tell if someone was gay by their bones?

2) After someone has been dead for several thousand years who cares?

So well put! Let's face it, there could be loads of reasonable explanations as to why this caveman was buried like this.

So many people on here seem to want to believe so desperately that this story is true and this man was 'special and revered' by his fellow peers. Of course there were gay cavemen, homosexuality is just some sort of genetic variance that happens to a small percentile of the population.

But, to put it in modern terms, being gay myself I always wished that Batman and Robin were both real and gay. Are they? Well according to their creators they are not. It still don't stop me from dreaming they are and reading all sorts of innuendo into their interactions that may or may not be reality. So at the end of the day I am projecting my own thoughts, hopes and desires onto a reality that does not support them.

And this is the point with this so called gay caveman. We can all dream and hope and come up with theories. But the truth may be very different and it died out with his people thousands of years ago.

Originally posted by Varemia
Originally posted by hp1229
Originally posted by Varemia

It is only our social and intellectual nature that separates us.

BINGO. If we have the awareness of us being different then certainly we do know the consequences of a such a society and its boundaries.

Originally posted by hp1229

It is only our social and intellectual nature that separates us.

BINGO. If we have the awareness of us being different then certainly we do know the consequences of a such a society and its boundaries.

I don't see what you mean. Could you explain what your point is?

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by hp1229

It is only our social and intellectual nature that separates us.

BINGO. If we have the awareness of us being different then certainly we do know the consequences of a such a society and its boundaries.

I don't see what you mean. Could you explain what your point is?

By this I mean that if HUMANS are smart enough to differentiate between right and wrong and forsee the future then we can certainly forsee the side effects or consequences of a all GAY society (Same Gender Marriage) lets say 1000 years from now.

Originally posted by hp1229
...if HUMANS are smart enough to differentiate between right and wrong and forsee the future then we can certainly forsee the side effects or consequences of a all GAY society (Same Gender Marriage) lets say 1000 years from now.

How do you anticipate 'a all gay society' coming about? An infestation of gay-cooties, sorta like a zombie invasion? That is just silly...futher, it give homophobia a bad name.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by hp1229
...if HUMANS are smart enough to differentiate between right and wrong and forsee the future then we can certainly forsee the side effects or consequences of a all GAY society (Same Gender Marriage) lets say 1000 years from now.

How do you anticipate 'a all gay society' coming about? An infestation of gay-cooties, sorta like a zombie invasion? That is just silly...futher, it give homophobia a bad name.

Never mind.

You wouldn't understand.

It is not silly but your thought process is silly. It is not homophobia. I dont give a rat's butt if 2 guys blow and suck each other all day every moment of the day. I am simply trying to explain that we as humans are intelligent than certainly we are also intelligent enough to forsee the side effects of a openly gay society.