Ron Paul: The Ten Principles of a Free Society

How about sticking to the topic?

1. Rights belong to individuals, not groups; they derive from our nature and can neither be granted nor taken away by government.

What does this say then about the rights of corporations which have recently been granted full-fledged rights of a private citizen? Would RP scale back the recent SCOTUS ruling that corporations (including unions) can engage in 'rights of free speech' the same as living, breathing humans? I sure hope so.

2. All peaceful, voluntary economic and social associations are permitted; consent is the basis of the social and economic order.

I'm sure the intent was to agree that "peaceful assembly" should always be allowed but what exactly is 'voluntary economic association'?

We forget one of the reasons we have the government is to provide certain services, such as consumer protection. If a shady organization can trick Grandma Milly into paying with her life savings for electricity (ala Enron) or for a egregious cell phone contract (ala Worldcom) isn't this still considered a 'voluntary' economic association, as she would have no doubt signed some such contract? We have all manner of shady and crooked institutions that create a legal nightmare in which they can legally hold-up a citizen, all because they signed a contract and made it a voluntary economic association - it's one of the roles of the government to enable us to protect ourselves from such scamming.

3. Justly acquired property is privately owned by individuals and voluntary groups, and this ownership cannot be arbitrarily voided by governments.

'Eminent domain' has been one of the government's tools to strip landowners of their property all for the sake of 'development'. Local community governments have been the worst abusers of this act. I wonder how RP feels about NY lawmakers (like Peter King) who want to strip the owners of the property where they wish to build a mosque several blocks away from ground zero. Obviously such an action would be 'arbitrary'.

4. Government may not redistribute private wealth or grant special privileges to any individual or group.
Except taxation is itself the biggest form of wealth redistribution. It's inherent that to form a society there will be some form of wealth redistribution via taxation.

5. Individuals are responsible for their own actions; government cannot and should not protect us from ourselves.

Is he talking about the individual or "ourselves" as a society? Should the government intervene in the case of a suicide? Or assisted-suicide? Those who mental health is in question? What about the brain-dead like Maria Schiavo, whom certain lawmakers were trying to forcibly keep alive in spite of the wishes of her husband?

6. Government may not claim the monopoly over a people's money and government's must never engage in official counterfeiting, even in the name of macroeconomic stability.

No ambiguity here about what motivated this tenet - the FED.

7. Aggressive wars, even when called preventative, and even when they pertain only to trade relations, are forbidden.

Too vague, too generalized, what about wars to prevent genocide?

10. Government must obey the law that it expects other people to obey and thereby must never use force to mold behavior, manipulate social outcomes, manage the economy, or tell other countries how to behave.
I think he's telling the government to sit down, shut up, and behave itself, and gawddamn right he should!

I applaud RP for offering such basic tenets as it shows he's committed to our freedoms, but we always need to remember how complex society itself is, and the reason government has grown complex is to keep apace with these subtleties.

What RP failed to address in any of this is the government's role in "trust-busting" and anti-monopolistic legislation. From the mid/late 19th C. up to the 1920's we saw the rise of the robber barons, who engaged in monopolies to accumulate greater and greater wealth until they could drive out competition and even skew the democratic process, something that should be clear to all is again occurring. The government has to play a role in busting up such unfair practices.

Originally posted by BlackOps719

Thirty years of service to our nation.

Never once voting for a tax increase against the American worker.

Never once voting yes for a Congressional pay increase.

Never flip flopping on issues of importance, even in the face of severe scorn and ridicule.

What you see with this man is something entirely unique to the modern political spectrum, a man who cannot be bought and paid for. He has honor, integrity and the courage to stand up against the criminals.

Dr Paul has been warning us all for a decade now about the huge economic catastrophe that was awaiting this nation, and everyone laughed or ignored him and went on spending like it was black friday at Kmart.

Now look who is laughing.

.

Awesome post sir. Spot on.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Excellent piece of work MA~! S&F. But, as i look at the flags, with only 9 (including mine) its a sign of the times that the TPTB have done an excellent job in their single mind goal for the American's, to dumb them down and make them NOT want to care about their country or their liberty; for we did, this subject of freedom wouldn't hardly be discussed at any length!

Just like my latest thread, 8 flags, on a thread that CLEARLY shows Obama and we all KNOW he did send troops to Libya W/O the Congress's approval; regardless whether or not it's fox, CBS, ABC or NBC or CNN news media!!

8 flags...............welp.. welcome to the new Imperialistic presidency... or worse!

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


I'd say he could solve all those loose ends if he gets into office. He isn't stupid. He's been in the game for 30 years. He is a veteran.

I gave you a star because you are making a contribution to this thread. That's good.

reply to post by whatukno


Everyone gets it. You don't like Ron Paul. What you are doing now borders on spamming/trolling the thread with repetitive content. Please stop.

reply to post by whatukno


So he's a cult leader because he truthful fair and equitable about most things other than nuclear energy?

Sorry but Jim Jones never had 3 million followers and Paul isn't talking about armaggedon so that was a pretty pathetic analogy.

The people that like Paul are not followers as I would follow no
man are leaders. These free men are the actual 1% that should be running things not the modern day kings dictators and slavemasters we have now!

Only fools believe that this vapid 2 party fascist farce we have now can be changed through voting.
Only fools believe that this is the best we can do and best its ever been.
Fools live in their own microcosm of branding celebrity worship and ignore the consequences of their cooperation with the pure evil that runs this system.

And only a fool cannot see that evil for what it is.

As long as their telling the truth I don't care if its Paul Hitler or Jim Jones preach on broths! Cause I've already heard enough lies to last a lifetime.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


[[snip]]
On topic, Ron Paul is at the moment the only candidate that has any clue of whats going on. With a profound knowledge of the monetary policy( system ), foreign policy, and the Constitution, we could only hope that he gains even more momentum than he has, and leads this country out of this financial mess, not to mention, possibly clear up our name as the US....leets face, we aren't liked to much by the world right now~

Originally posted by Komodo
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Excellent piece of work MA~! S&F. But, as i look at the flags, with only 9 (including mine) its a sign of the times that the TPTB have done an excellent job in their single mind goal for the American's, to dumb them down and make them NOT want to care about their country or their liberty; for we did, this subject of freedom wouldn't hardly be discussed at any length!

Just like my latest thread, 8 flags, on a thread that CLEARLY shows Obama and we all KNOW he did send troops to Libya W/O the Congress's approval; regardless whether or not it's fox, CBS, ABC or NBC or CNN news media!!

8 flags...............welp.. welcome to the new Imperialistic presidency... or worse!

well 2 years in, what freedoms has Obama the imperialist denied you? c'mon list them... show me the laws that he passed that took away your freedom.

Im going to say this again , just in case it was missed , and to expand on it somewhat.
I really do believe that Ron Paul has a very good chance of taking the republican nomination in 2012. Last time he ran he set a record with the speed that he was able to raise money for his campaign. This time he will raise even more.
The mood of the country is behind him now to a large extent , and as things worsen , and gas prices rise he may even win the election.
Obama has given him plenty of ammunition with his absurd comments and speeches and Ron will use this to good effect.
Ron Paul 2012 !

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by BlackOps719

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by stephinrazin

 

Yea I have something against Cult leaders. Just ask the people who followed Jim Jones how following a cult leader turned out.

That's what Ron Paul is, a Cult Leader, if he told you all to drink poisoned Kool Aid you all would probably be so happy to do so because your Cult Leader told you to.

edit on 4/7/2011 by whatukno because: (no reason given)

You rattle on about cult leaders and such, yet you warmly lick the boots of the great messiah Obama like he is Jesus incarnate and can do no wrong.


You are the worst flavor of brainwashed liberal hypocrite and your routine is tired and old.

the only people that call Obama a messiah are the republicans. lets see...tell a lie, assign it to someone else, then dispute it...sounds like FOX NEWS to me.

Sounds like someone has bought into the MSM machine and believes what CNN,MSNBC,CBS,WSJ,NYT, etc, is fair and balanced?

You know what else is horrible about Ron Paul?
Ron Paul returns over $140,000 from his office budget to the U.S. Treasury

Taking another step forward in 2011, the Texas congressman and darling of the more libertarian, Tea Party wing of the Republican Party is continuing to walk the walk, returning a whopping $140,000 in unused office funds to the U.S. Treasury for the purpose of paying down the national debt. The sum is nearly 10% of his office funds and a 40% increase over the $100,000 he returned last year.

caivn.org...

reply to post by jimmyx

no minimum wage...corporations and the wealthy will pay just enough to get people to work for them. 1 dollar an hour? 2 dollars an hour? if someone is starving, they will work for any amount.

Get rid of the income tax like Paul wants, let me opt out of social security as well, then bring some buying power back to the dollar, and throw on a few other shakes of Paul dreams, and I might be able to do it...and you also have to remember what powers a president actually has, and that he is tempered by Congress as well, who have to answer to their constituents. Please also take into account that Ron Paul has shown himself to be very reasonable, even to the point of "dealing with the devil" to not make US suffer (control our overseas spending so we actually have money to maintain social safety nets, so on and so forth), and I don't think you'll have to worry about him even trying to do anything that will have unintended consequences along the lines of all american living in poverty - even if congress would let him get away with it.

Then again, I would like to see a fair comparison of US citizens' prosperity and income, inflation-adjusted, between today and prior to the introduction of the minimum wage in 1938...

if a wealthy person buys up all the property around your property, he can say that you cannot cross over his private property to get to your property, and the government cannot grant access rights

I'm sure the courts would find that you have a right to access your property and deal accordingly.

if your 85 year old mother has alzheimers and cannot function, you have to quit your 2 dollar an hour job and take care of her. i guess you both don't eat.

Not following this one, actually? Non-issue anyway as I covered the $2/hour thing initially.

if your landlord doesn't like you or you make him angry, he can immediately throw you out on the street.

What does the federal government have to do with that anyway?

if a corporation makes a deadly product, they do not have to tell anybody, nor can the government say anything or do anythiing. government can't interfere with private capital

There are still the courts, remember? As well as state law to deal with, in addition to lost business as a result of less regulations that only large companies can meet allowing more small businesses to compete, thus offering safer and cheaper services.

all mental patients and disabled will have to depend on wealthy people to voluntarily donate money so they can live or they will have to recieve donated money from that 2 dollar an hour worker.

The US actually used to be a much more charitable population (and is NOT altogether uncharitable now, anyway) before everyone felt they didn't need to worry about it because: a) I pay my taxes, so I've already done my part, and b) we don't get to have as much money for this as we should since the government keeps taking so much of it anyway.
Then again, and I'm probably just unaware, what does the federal government really do for these anyway? Also, please see prior mention of what power a president actually has & congressional tempering.

employers will be able to work people 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, with no time off. and that includes children...remember government cannot interfere with private capital.

Is that how it always was before government mandates (when the US was, in fact, the most prosperous nation on earth with a much healthier populace and higer net worth per citizen)?

Everyone, please let me know if I'm just missing something on my thoughts - I am here to learn and still a newling as comes to some of these topics, so I'd appreciate feedback and clarity if I'm astray on any of this.

Be well, friend.

Originally posted by the owlbear
Okay, all, I do like some of what the good doctor has said, but I cannot support him. He has complained about corporate and banking sectors having too much pull, yet preaches a laissez faire economic policy that would dissolve what little restraints remain.

They have too much pull because of lobbying
Increase regulators will only create more lobbying targets

Originally posted by the owlbear
How can losing minimum wage requirements and safety regulations be good for the average worker? Again, the man at the top wins.

How does either getting rid of income tax or lowering it to 10% means the man at the top wins?
The biggest problem the country and the world faces is the military industrial complex.
He is for a strong national defense but against militarism and policing the world.
How is that making the man on top win??

Originally posted by the owlbear
Just imagine, your pay goes down to $4 an hour your hours increase and vacation dissolves, you get a choice take it or leave it. Unfortunately, the businesses are all in collusion and decide to only pay the same rate since there are no laws against it now.

Labor Unions were around way before there was any minimum wages my friend

Secondly, liberals may continue to seek out social injustices and then demand regulations prohibiting it, but at the end of the day it's not a big "what the hell" when you see people with little or no skills being paid very poorly.

And if people didn't accept so many assembly line jobs maybe we would have much better products to buy, but no because of income tax and all these wars and corruption the people couldn't afford better products.

Conservatives don't want povertry, neither do liberals, but liberals often think with their hearts and not their brains.

From what I have seen of Paul.
he is a true and good person.
who speaks a lot of good.
I just hope it is true.
and not a sham to get him in power.
and then find out he will not do as he said.
and yes I would worship him!

For those perpetuating some kind of religious inclination, Ron Paul has no nail marks on his hands nor his feet so is seen as what his is...a man.

Being a mere man, he is not perfect and has his share of flaws. At the same time, his share of flaws pale in comparison to the standard politician shoved down our throats these days.

Let's compare his ten principles of a Free Society to the ten planks of the Communist Manifesto and see which planks are being implemented in what is supposed to be the most free nation on Earth!?

Communist Manifesto

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

So you must decide which you prefer for yourself and your posterity. For myself and mine, I'll take Ron Paul's over the CM any day of the week. Unfortunately the CM has become so ingrained in our current political structure that I fear eradication of such will be quite painful.

Please follow the link I provided for further descriptions of how each plank of the CM has or is being implemented. I merely posted them as text for provoking thought.

Ten principles. Different in content to the Georgia Guidestones obviously.

Other than the first tenet of the GG, I think they're a lot more sensible than Paul's plan. Bold statement, I know.

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

what a bunch of crap...we wouldn't even have an america if we followed those ten principles. that is a dictatorship to me...

This is possibly the single most ignorant statement I have heard here....and I have heard some doozys.

Can you please explain how 10 princables of freedom = dictatorship?