Rossi Cold Fusion Validated by Swedish Skeptic's Society!

reply to post by boncho


Boncho
Yes quite possible, actually. And I can back it with historical accounts.

hawkiye
So you post a couple historical accounts of some of these supposed legitimate scientific journals being duped yet you insist that if Rossi is not accepted by such dupes he is not credible LOL! You can't have it both ways! Also Essén and Kullander and others were not just reading papers they have seen and examined the devices and the took measurements enough to rule out other sources and trickery and confirm it is a low level nuclear reaction.
Boncho
Yes, grand conspiracy. That is the reason Rossi's papers got trashed....

hawkiye
So you expect us to believe these folks are credible after being duped so easily as you pointed out?

Boncho
You are arguing to me that I shouldn't be dismissive of a person convicted of fraud who was selling toxic waste to fake companies, who has a fake degree, who also has a dead person working at his company???

hawkiye
He was not convicted of fraud he was acquited. Again you attack character with a falsehood and refuse to deal with the results of the testing that has been conducted.

Boncho
Tesla, father of AC, sold a lot of his stuff, had working inventions. Nope, nothing like Rossi.

hawkiye
Really, so several prominent scientist confirm it works saw it demonstrated, measurements taken, examined it etc., rule out any trickery, write papers on it etc. and you don't consider it to be working... Sigh

And I don't need to reread the other thread I am the OP of it, and I said you brought up some valid concerns about Rossi's past. However now you are making statements like it's all proven when it is not. The point is I don't really care about his past, if this works his past doesn't matter. Now with the prominent scientist I have mentioned are confirming it does work and outputs at least ten times more then is input, ruling out trickery, and chemical sources you are just dismissing out of hand.

The main thing that is unknown is the catalyst used so what pray tell can you imagine the trick to be when several physicists much more qualified then you have ruled out any such thing, and examined and observed it first hand. Your continued insistence at this point that there is trickery going on shows either your judgement is clouded with supporting your position or you have another agenda, Its not like there is a bunch of unknown wires attached and the length of time it is able to run has ruled out chemical sources etc etc.

So since you think it is trickery maybe you can tell us what trick you think he is using?

reply to post by hawkiye

So you post a couple historical accounts of some of these supposed legitimate scientific journals being duped yet you insist that if Rossi is not accepted by such dupes he is not credible LOL! You can't have it both ways! Also Essén and Kullander and others were not just reading papers they have seen and examined the devices and the took measurements enough to rule out other sources and trickery and confirm it is a low level nuclear reaction.

Again, not sure where you are going with this. You are saying that because of a few bad apples, you are eliminating all scientists as credible.

So the some 1,000,000 million or so peer reviewed papers that are published each year are moot to you but:

a convicted con artist who caused millions of environmental damage in Italy, who has a fake diploma, who has a dead person listed working at his company, who sold energy objects that didn't function as they were supposed to (blamed on manufacturer), who created a blog but named it a scientific journal...

-this person created a machine, that no one is allowed to look inside or know how it works, and they couldn't because the only patent he filed was destined to be rejected, this person you trust over the entire scientific establishment.

Essén and Kullander could not do a proper evaluation without having all the variables. You have to be able to rule out certain things to make a definitive statement about something. They cannot do this in the way that Rossi is letting them look at his work. There are other lenr researchers that have been in contact with Rossi... How come he didn't let them check out his machine? Hmm....

He was not convicted of fraud he was acquited. Again you attack character with a falsehood and refuse to deal with the results of the testing that has been conducted

Italian translation

Subsequently, the company is put into a state of accusation and trial for various crimes. It is therefore ordered and initiated proceedings for compensation for the disposal costs, amounting to almost € 50 million, supported by the Lombardy Region and the state. In the autumn of 2001 is a transaction that made ​​grants to 300 companies and Petroldragon compensation of approximately EUR 5 million.
In 1995, Andrea Rossi is jailed for "conspiracy to tax fraud for a business of processing and trading of precious materials, causing a traffic of gold bullion between Switzerland and Italy.

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Rossi's website

ndrea Rossi was arrested, from prison could no longer do anything to save the company, in addition to this the huge media campaign permanently destroys the image is Andrea Rossi, the value of the companies brands, both plants and Omar Petroldragon, that until recently were assessed about 50 billion lire (growing exponentially) and gave work to 150 employees, was consequently reset.

1

He faced a lot of charges,, so it is possible that he was acquitted of some. But I do not know if it is all of them. His jail time would have had to been pre-trial custody in that case. Unless he was sentenced and was heard again on appeal. The first article seems to show he was sentenced.

If I could read Italian I would go through court documents relating to it. (If they are available).

Really, so several prominent scientist confirm it works saw it demonstrated, measurements taken, examined it etc., rule out any trickery, write papers on it etc. and you don't consider it to be working... Sigh

Where did they rule out trickery? I don't think you understand what a blind or double blind experiment is. Like I said before, this isn't a scientific paper because it would get rejected from any Journal worth half a grain.

One example of a blind analysis occurs in neutrino experiments, like the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory, where the experimenters wish to report the total number N of neutrinos seen. The experimenters have preexisting expectations about what this number should be, and these expectations must not be allowed to bias the analysis. Therefore, the experimenters are allowed to see an unknown fraction f of the dataset.

Analysts are allowed to work with all of the energy and decay data, but are forbidden from seeing the sign of the charge, and thus are unable to see the correlation (if any). At the end of the experiment, the correct charge signs are revealed; the analysis software is run once (with no subjective human intervention), and the resulting numbers are published.

The main thing that is unknown is the catalyst used so what pray tell can you imagine the trick to be when several physicists much more qualified then you have ruled out any such thing, and examined and observed it first hand.

How these two credible now? you already ruled out the entire scientific establishment by saying:

So you post a couple historical accounts of some of these supposed legitimate scientific journals being duped yet you insist that if Rossi is not accepted by such dupes he is not credible LOL!

If you actually look into it, these instances were devastating for the community because they take many steps to eliminate pathological and outright bunk science. It's not perfect, nor are humans in general.

Your continued insistence at this point that there is trickery going on shows either your judgement is clouded with supporting your position or you have another agenda, Its not like there is a bunch of unknown wires attached and the length of time it is able to run has ruled out chemical sources etc etc.

So since you think it is trickery maybe you can tell us what trick you think he is using?

Some of the lenr guys have said anything from weak alpha emitters, to ion exchange from the copper tubing, to energy sources being built into the lead casings.

The last one was interesting because supposedly the lead casings have no purpose, so a few people couldn't figure out why Rossi would put something so heavy into his apparatus.

If you think it is easy to explain trickery, than please find a David Copperfield video or any other magician and explain how they do everything in the show? It is an unrealistic question. I am in no way going to say I know how, if he were to be using trickery.


To sum this up. You think I believe this is outright bunk (not far from the truth), however, I won't say that it is impossible Rossi has something. Unfortunately, after doing due-diligence, I found enough red-flags that makes this highly suspect and implies a large chance that it will amount to nothing.

I looked at it as an investor. And if a legitimate new energy technology came out, know that I would be the first to invest into it. Take from that what you will. But your obvious wish to believe is stronger than your critical thought.

If this looked legit, my money would be backing Rossi and I would be singing his praises.


Don't bother thinking this is a debunk attempt. The information I post is for people think critically, and to counter all the BS claims that are coming along with this thing. I can't wait till October is out of the way so this can be done with...

It's real.

Transmutation of elements is possible.

And, energy does not carry with it a $price$. It can be created merely for the cost of the mechanism.

The future is bright. The old paradigm will fade away.

I actually find it a little sad that a website which was created in an effort to uncover false information, that in the same place so many people support bad methods of research. It is disappointing to say the least.

If one person/entity is lying to you and you build an emotional distaste of them, you choose to be susceptible to lies from the seeming opposition?

Originally posted by 30_seconds
It's real.

Transmutation of elements is possible.

And, energy does not carry with it a $price$. It can be created merely for the cost of the mechanism.

The future is bright. The old paradigm will fade away.

Transmutation is old news really. Nagasaki and Hiroshima got a first hand experience in its effects.

Nuclear transmutation is the conversion of one chemical element or isotope into another. In other words, atoms of one element can be changed into atoms of other element by 'transmutaion'. This occurs either through nuclear reactions (in which an outside particle reacts with a nucleus), or through radioactive decay (where no outside particle is needed).

Didn't some of the people who tested it, and or reviewed the E-cat admit that it is 'possible theoretically, but against commonly accepted theories of nuclear fission/fusion' ?

So if its 'theoretically possible' but against 'commonly accepted theories' then obviously theres conflicting theories here. And guess which one needs to be revised? *shock* The status quo.

reply to post by timmhaines

It is estimated that there is about 140 million tons of nickel available in identified deposits. Eighty-four million tons, or 60 percent of the total available nickel is in laterite deposits. A deposit in which rain and surface water leached nickel-rich rock and concentrated the nickel at or near the surface of the Earth is a laterite deposit. Nickel sulfide deposits contain the remaining forty percent (56 million tons).

www.eoearth.org...


Seems like there is plenty of nickle, i wonder how much raw nickle was used to make the powder.

corroboration ?

Storms on the situation of the Rossi and Focardi reactor: “They [Rossi and Focardi] found a way of amplifying the effect to a level that makes it attractive as an industrial source of energy and people in the cold fusion field have been working towards that, but they had not achieved that level of heat production, and so this was both a bit of a surprise and a bit shock, but a bit of a kick to get people moving a little more rapidly now. And it looks like the phenomenon will actually have an application.”

The article goes on and confirms that Rossi is being smart about not giving away the process just yet.

Originally posted by boncho

Transmutation is old news really. Nagasaki and Hiroshima got a first hand experience in its effects.

But none of the so-called claims of nuclear events at Nagasaki nor Hiroshima ever happened. You cannot prove that.

Originally posted by HunterKiller

Originally posted by boncho

Transmutation is old news really. Nagasaki and Hiroshima got a first hand experience in its effects.

But none of the so-called claims of nuclear events at Nagasaki nor Hiroshima ever happened. You cannot prove that.

Thank god for the inserted smiley, otherwise I was about to have a aneurysm.

Second.