Did the Democrats Pull a Fast One By Failing to Pass 2011 Budget? Setup?

It is nearly useless to try to cut the 2011 budget. The physical year is nearly over. I say let the Senate have their compromise on this one. Cut the 2012 budget to the bone,all but the blind can see that there is a day of reckoning coming.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Absolutely.

With all the problems year after year with bill after bill, why is it that we can not have single line bills? Vote on one specific item at a time, that way we rid ourselves of the nasty little games that representatives play and even better perhaps get rid of that nasty pork everyone seems to hate (yet can't seem to get away from ) . It just solves all our problems.

reply to post by memarf1

They are not holding the country hostage to pass an agenda. The previous 2 years of outlandish spending has done that, not to mention the decrease in tax receipts due to the recession. The democrats would have us raise taxes to fill the gap, and that would be an excellent bandaid, but it wouldn't repair the broken arm.

There is currently no proposals to raise taxes in this budget that is holding it up. The only thing holding it up is Republicans trying to legislate through this budget.

The republicans have presented an excellent proposal

What proposal? Defunding Planned Parenthood and cutting funding to the EPA will not solve our problems either. Republicans wanted 33 billion in cuts...Democrats met that number. Then Republicans said, no no...we want 60 billion. They have now come down to 40 billion. And it is these TWO items that are holding it up. 7 billion...to push two Republican agenda items. They have wanted to get rid of Planned Parenthood forever...and they are using the threat of a government shutdown to try to do it.

If the soldiers don't get payed...blame the republicans for wanting to shut down planned parenthood...they are putting THAT ahead of the needs of the country.

right now since our president and the democrats wish to play politics I am happy that the republicans are stepping up and attempting to present solutions.

Again...please tell me what solutions? Obama and the democrats are not playing politics...they are not trying to sneak things into the budget that don't belong. They are not the ones that are trying to defund programs that they ideologically don't agree with.

The only ones that are playing politics is the republicans because they are holding out on these TWO items. They want teh Dems to bend on this...THEY are holding out...not the Dems.

Whats more, the democrats are playing the game and blaming the republicans for pushing for a government shut down.

I'll restate it....Republicans originally demanded 33 billion in spending cuts....THE DEMS MET THAT NUMBER. And now Republicans have broke that agreement and are asking for MORE.

Please tell me how Democrats are playing a game???

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Of course they are cutting items that reach toward their ideology, any logical person would cut those items. The problem isn't that, it is that the Democrats won't propose cuts to almost ANYTHING! You focus on a few items that are probably near to your heart, but these are only drops in an otherwise VERY LARGE BUCKET. The number of cuts necessary to balance the budget, or at least make it managable to within projected growth paths will be extensive and will include many programs that people want to keep funding for.

Furthermore, history has shown that defunding government funded programs like planned parenthood usually increases overall funding in the longer term. When a program is funded by the government people assume that that program doesn't need help and therefore don't donate to it. Defunding the things you like will be better for the tax payer and allow them the ability to fund any program they like as opposed to supplying pennies to those they both like and dislike. I don't know about you but I would far prefer to donate $10 to Red Cross than $1 to Red Cross, $1 to planned parenthood, $1 to Acorn, $1 to etc etc.

Cuts have to be made and they have to start somewhere. Small programs may have to be first, but thats just the reality of the issue. If Paul Ryan gets his proposal through then we are talking about a $580billion cut per year! That is an excellent proposal and we need to all read about that and get on board. We need to start calling our representatives and push for his program, its a real and visible cut, not the nickel and dime stuff they have been negotiating.

EDIT: No, the Republicans didn't originally demand 33 billion, they demanded 100 billion and have been getting a small piece of that every 2 or 3 weeks. Its unfortunate that they have begun to even fold on that. Yes, they may wish to defund EPA or Planned Parenthood, GOOD! I Love the earth, but private property protection and the courts are the way to save the environment, not the EPA(although I do like them, I see the amount of funding they get as far too much). Defund Planned Parenthood, YES! They do an excellent service but its nothing that the free local clinic down the road can't provide. Its nothing a hospital or family doctor cannot do. THEY ARE UNNECCESARY AND I WANT MY MONEY SPENT IN BETTER PLACES! THEY ARE A DEAD WEIGHT LOSS!

reply to post by memarf1

Of course they are cutting items that reach toward their ideology

Yes...they are playing politics. And they are holding the country hostage to do it.


You can't say that the Dems aren't willing to make cuts. Like I said before, Republicans originally wanted 33 billion in cuts. And Dems MET THAT NUMBER. The budget proposal as it stands right now has 33 billion in cuts in it.

But once Dems met that goal...the Republicans thought "Oh crap...they called our bluff"...because they didn't think the Dems would be willing to make those cuts...but they did. So instead of sticking to their agreement, they said "NO...now we want MORE". And to make sure the Dems can't meet their demands this time...they push for ridiculous items like 100% defund planned parenthood and defunding legislation.

You show me where the Dems are playing politics...they met the Republicans original goal of 33 billion...and now the Republicans have moved the goal posts. The Republicans WANT a shut down..they think it will make Obama look bad...and it is back firing.

It is ALL up to the Republicans now. Drop the ideological agenda...and pass the budget on your original agreement of 33 billion.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Quite the contrary, if the democrats would govern then the republicans would be happy not to have a shutdown. Howard Dean even stated that the Democrats want a shutdown recently on a talk show. The republicans also didn't move the goal posts, they originally stated they wanted $100billion, which even that is a drop in the bucket. If the dems are proposing things I would like to see that! As far as I have read, they have only asked for tax increases to fix the fiscal woes. So, you want me to drink up $33billion out of a $1.7TRILLION deficit?!?

Come on man, WE ARE BANKRUPT WITHOUT MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR REFORM!

$33billion, you must be kidding right? That is your attempt at humor? A joke, please tell me thats a joke!

reply to post by memarf1

$33billion, you must be kidding right? That is your attempt at humor? A joke, please tell me thats a joke!

Yes...they are at 33 billion in cuts...and despite what you claim...republicans DID agree to that number.

And now Republicans want 40 billion...an additional 7 billion in cuts. No joke...this is what is causing the hold up. The REPUBLICANS holding out for 7 billion.


Do you think holding out for an additional 7 billion is worth a government shutdown (based on ideology rather than real solutions)...after you just laughed at 33 billion dollars in cuts???

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Yes, the republicans agreed to the 33 billion as a TEMPORARY AGREEMENT! Otherwise there would not have been a 3 week delay on the shutdown, the agreement would have been permanent. They wanted $100 billion in total cuts at some point and are expecting that to occur within the year. So, yes, if the democrats choose to force a government shut down over the $7 billion in additional cuts that only take the republicans to 40% of the campaign promised $100 billion, then yes let the government shut down.

Its not about ideology its about proposed solutions. Apparently you didn't understand what I meant by the ideology statement I made before. Of course R's will propose cuts that run toward their ideology, it is in the core values and beliefs, and that is where they will propose cuts. If the D's would simply make similar demands then there could be some negotiation, however this isn't happening, at least not publicly.

It only seems like it is ideology b/c the only cuts being proposed are from the Republicans, the Democrats need to offer some solutions as well. It would be nice if everyone could have it all, unfortunately the US government does not take in $4trillion in tax revenue every year. I would like it if we could all be billionaires, but we all know that won't happen either. I wish Americans would just wake up and stop being such sheeple!

The Republicans offered ideas to solve the budget problem, those ideas were of course, and expectedly, to their ideals and beliefs. The Democrats are spinning it to seem like the Republicans are hijacking the budget, but they offer not real answers or even proposed cuts(at least not that I am aware of).

Go read Paul Ryan's proposal, its a good one, it goes to their core also but is a real and impactful solution. Then, stop being so blinded by the spin and for the love of God stop drinking the coolaid!

Are you telling us that Government loving liberals are intentionally impacting something they believe in???
...why that would also mean that government hating conservatives are trying desperately to maintain government...

Are you a pretzel salesman Jib?

In this case I think it fairly clear to see the roles and the motives, they are pretty simple. The GOP is taking a gamble in hopes that they can win further concessions, the DEMS are not budging.Your fantastic
imagination is amazing, next you should try a story about the GOP trying to destroy corporate person-hood or
the DEMS bludgeoning Social Security for fun

reply to post by memarf1

Yes, the republicans agreed to the 33 billion as a TEMPORARY AGREEMENT

An agreement is an agreement...and they have broken that agreement.

You can defend their actions all you want...but the Dems kept up their side of the agreement...now Republicans are asking for more.


Too bad...they aren't going to get it...and if the government shuts down it is on their shoulders for not sticking with the agreement. It is very simple...unless you are trying to defend the ones that have brokent the agreement...then it gets complicated.

"They failed the American people" .... that about says it all. This is just politics for politics. It doesn't have anything to do with taking care of the business of the country. The issue is they're playing politics, not getting the business of the country done. Not getting the business of the country done. How hard is it to figure out? Is there a right/wrong issue here that possibly might be missed? Nope. Just running for office, while in office, using the taxpayers to fund the party, which is the federal governments only job apparently. Yep, I see the change. I see the hope. The federal government is a big boot on our neck. The parties are there to keep it that way. No conspiracy theory here, just good old history just more of the same. Head in the sand.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


They didn't break any agreement! The agreement was this, the republicans will allow the government 3 weeks of continued running in order to reach further cuts and reform, and the democrats agreed to give up $33billion in spending. The original agreement expires tomorrow! The Democrats are choosing to continue this charade under the guise that its the republicans fault!

Furthermore, do you seriously not see that the government simply HAS NO MONEY! If they had money then this discussion wouldn't even be taking place. They will shut down b/c they HAVE NO MONEY! Tax receipts last year were about $2trillion, while spending was approximately $3.7trillion! GO READ ABOUT WHY THIS IS OCCURRING BEFORE YOU COME ON HERE AND TROLL FOR DISAGREEMENT!

I was thinking about this on the way home too. You keep saying that the ideologies of the republicans is what is leading them to ask for cuts on the specific programs they are cutting. So, my question to you is thus posed. Other than defense, or raising taxes, what ISN'T a program that costs the government money that isn't some form of entitlement and a child of the Democrats? Every program the government runs would be a possible cut, but every one would cause the democrats to accuse the republicans of being ideological and pushing an agenda.

So, here is my request, ignoring defense. Can you name a program that the republicans could cut that you wouldn't accuse them of ideological motives?

Which, by the way, we spend about $660billion on defense, so if the democrats want a compromise, I would imagine they could ask for $7billion in cuts to defense to get the other $7 billion that the republicans want and they might even have a chance to get it. The republicans won't offer that but of course its a bargaining chip, there is probably some number they have in mind that they may be willing to offer.

The problem is that the democrats are not asking for things and the things available for the republicans to ask for will always be cause for the accusal of ideological motives.

reply to post by memarf1


The bottom line is this...the Dems have already compromised and accepted cuts that they don't ideology agree with. They are finally drawing a line and saying no more.

Nice of you to leave defense spending out of the equation...7 billion would even make a dent in their budget. If the Republicans were REALLY serious about making cuts...they would hit defense FIRST. But they aren't.

If the REPUBLICANS want to continue this game...then THEY have to shut down the government.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I'm interested on why people are not focusing on the current issues that are holding up the budget. There are two items.

1) Republicans want to 100% defund Planned Parenthood.

2) Republicans want to remove funding from the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases

In short...the Republicans are trying to legislate through the budget by pushing their own specific agenda items.

This is NOT what the budget is for...if they want to repeal laws, they should do it through the normal process. They are using the threat of government shutdown to try to push their agenda...not because they are concerned about spending.

OK, This part I can agree with. They shouldn't play politics with the budget. A budget is a budget is a budget. Regardless of what my wife and I think is important to spend our "extra" money on, we both know that first comes the house and car payments and food for the family.

If you ask me, both sides are being ridiculous in thinking that any of this is important. So they cut 40B or 100B, we are still almost $2 Trillion in debt. The government should shutdown for shear lack of functionality and lack of any sense whatsoever. In my opinion, if they don't cut at least 500B, then what is the point?

Shut it down!

Take 30 days to ship home the troops and send people their last entitlement checks with a letter that reads, nice doing business with you, maybe we'll get it right next time. Shut down the whole losing operation, and let some people that actually care about the country step up and rebuild with a new government. Get rid of the cronies and crooks. Don't pay lawmakers a single dime beyond lost wages from their regular jobs. Don't give any incentives for dirty government.

Regardless of this budget, or that QE, or any bailout, they are all just stalling the inevitable. The government is bankrupt, and we need to let it fall, so that we can get to the business of fixing it.

Originally posted by jibeho
I seem to recall Obama mocking the tea party and the opposition to Obamacare in my short term memory bank.

The tea party should be mocked, and often.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

The fact is that the republicans COULD have avoided all of this if they didn't try to play politics with the budget themselves.

Do you not acknowledge that the Democratic party had the house, the senate and the Presidency, they had the numbers on their side, to vote and pass for anything. And they failed to do so?

And yet again, you attack Ron Paul, and he had nothing to do with this topic...once again your trolling efforts are outstanding...but you tend to lose what credibility you have...

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Honestly, if the Democrats passed a budget before the election, the repubs would whine and cry about how the nasty commie democrat party was trying to push through their agenda before the midterm elections. If they passed a budget after the election, the repubs would whine and cry about how the nasty commie democrat party wasn't listening to the voters. And now (surprise!) the repubs are whining and crying about how the nasty commie democrat party didn't pass a budget.

BOTH parties are owned by corporate America. But the hypocrisy of the repubs and their constant whining without coming up with any ideas (besides giving corporations and the super wealthy massive tax cuts) is sickening.

reply to post by kimar


As i previously posted, I simply asked if the Outkast would concede and atleast acknowledge that the Democrats had a full sweep of power, and did nothing. Make up the excuses all you want. But I do agree with your stance, that they, being the 2 parties are one in the same.

reply to post by Whereweheaded

Do you not acknowledge that the Democratic party had the house, the senate and the Presidency, they had the numbers on their side, to vote and pass for anything. And they failed to do so?

I acknowledge they had control of the house, senate, and the Presidency. I don't acknowledge that they could of passed anything they wanted. They didn't have a filibuster proof majority.

As I explained before, if the Dems would of tried to pass the budget back in October...the Republicans most likely would of blocked anything they proposed. This would of made the Dems look weak by not being able to pass the budget and the Republicans strong for standing up for more and more cuts.

So the Dems decided to wait until the republicans had some responsibility in the process. Now the Republicans can't claim that the only power they have is to block. They are now forced to compromise and negotiate. They agreed to 33 billion, thinking the Dems wouldn't meet that number...and the Dems did. And immediately the republicans bumped their number up to 60 billion...they got so much negative feedback from that move...they have dropped it down to 40 billion. And now they claim "it's only another 7 billion and the Dems aren't willing to work with us". But they fail to point out that the 7 billion is the complete de-funding and aboloshing of Planned Parenthood and the defunding of the Clean Air Act. They know that the Dems will never bend on these items...so they still have their excuse to shut down the government in an attempt to try to make Obama look bad. The problem is...that plan is back firing...no one is blaming Obama. Some are blaming Republican congress and some are blaming dem congress...Obama is coming out on top.

And yet again, you attack Ron Paul, and he had nothing to do with this topic...once again your trolling efforts are outstanding...but you tend to lose what credibility you have.

I brought up Ron Paul because there was a comment about the two parties...and I know a lot of people that make this claim are Ron Paul supporters...and yet he is a registered Republican.



I'm sorry you don't like my opinions...but I think you are better than crying "troll" about everything that you don't like.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


You state:

As I explained before, if the Dems would of tried to pass the budget back in October...the Republicans most likely would of blocked anything they proposed. This would of made the Dems look weak by not being able to pass the budget and the Republicans strong for standing up for more and more cuts.

You state here that they "Most Likely" would have been blocked. The fact is that we will never know because they never attempted to begin with. Additionally in October the Republicans would have been far more likely to say yes than the Tea Partiers that were likely going to win many seats at the time. Furthermore, they knew they would likely have even fewer votes in 2011, even if they had maintained a majority, so they knew the fight in 2011 would be harder than the fight they would have had then. Worse even, Charlie Rangel just admitted that the democrats simply didn't get to it! ITS THEIR JOB!

Now, lets talk about Planned Parenthood. Can you name a single service that some other agency in any town cannot fill?

Secondly, you didn't name anything other than defense, which I had obviously already conceded to you, so I'll give you another chance. Name a single item that they could propose that they wouldn't be accused of ideology or agenda.

Finally, the Democrats keep stating, "Don't let planned parenthood hold up the budget, its not that important", for which I would really like to say, IF ITS NOT THAT IMPORTANT THEN YOU DEMOCRATS STOP LETTING IT HOLD UP THE BUDGET! THE REPUBLICANS ARE JUST TRYING TO FULFILL THEIR PROMISE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!

Oh, I guess it wasn't finally, I forgot about the 33, 40, 60, and 100 billion part. You need to read about this. The $33billion was always just the beginning. The fact remains that the Tea Partiers promised cuts of $100billion and they are attempting to get that. They put forth the $33billion and got it, but that did not mean they didn't want the rest of the $100billion.

I'm hearing $73billion now, and thats pretty close to the $100billion they promised, but the Dems need to stop saying to drop the planned parenthood. Its an honorable program, but its not needed and the Dems need to stop mothering the American people.