The Real Scientific proof of GOD

Originally posted by jstanthrno1
If there is a 'God' responsible for creating the Universe and everything it... 'He' is far too powerful for the human mind to comprehend.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

God is responsible for creating everything.... The same way you are responsible for creating each and every cell in your body.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Allah/God choses not to reveal himself in this time because it is just a test. He created the universe. How can you expect to outsmart an omnipotent/infinite intelligence?

If I created a fishbowl and placed a fish in it and I ask the fish to prove their was a creator, how would the fish go by to produce that proof?

We simply do not have the intelligence to produce the proof if it was meant to be produced. Maybe god created the universe in such a way that you cannot prove him. That is the beauty of God and his infinite power/intelligence/omnipotence/everlasting

I don't expect to outsmart God, for the simple fact that you cant outsmart something you are a part of,

By the way you can't create a fish, fishbowl or water so your logic fails there.

And we do have the intelligence to know God simply because we are part of God. To say that you are not would mean saying you are not part of the universe, which is well just plain wrong.

Originally posted by Redevilfan09
Have a look in genesis and tell me what you think of god. God could of been the survivors of a catastrophe, God could of been E.Ts, god could be something that we will never know, until god reveals itself. There was more than one god in the bible. They were physical beings from my point of view and unfortunetly these beings probably didn't know where they came from either, but they created us, or they are us. I'm putting my bet on a very intelligent life form being our gods.

That is not the God I am talking about, please see the definition of God in OP, The God of the bible or any religion could have been anything but that debate is not for this thread.

You may want to note that one of the oldest religions still practiced today is Hinduism, and in pure Hinduism God is actually known as "nirakar" meaning formless, and this is known as the most divine form of God. Then we get to the main "sakar" or formed form of God, of which both Shiva and Shakti are part. And you will note that Shakti literally translates to energy.

reply to post by kaleshchand


Ha ha ha ha ha. Thats the funniest load of crap I've ever heard. But that is your opinion. I'm not a christian so don't think I am judging you amigo. It just saddens me that so many people fell into the whole religion slavery scam. There is no God. But their is a creator. Demons, spirits, anything good or evil is in the presence now. But you have to travel to the 4th, 5th, and 6th to find them. The fallen ones, or angels to you humans, were the Anunnaki. They are aliens. NOT GODS. But superior intelligence. Millions of years of evolving for these beings.

We are not the only humanoid civilization as all beings in this vast universe strive and kill to survive. Humans are the virus. We destroy every planet we live on. You want peace? You must first destroy to rebuild. Or blah blah blah as you judges would say as no ones opinions matter but your own. Peace and love to you humans.

reply to post by kaleshchand


nothing failed. I put the fish in a bowl of water I created. Now ask the fish to prove I made its bowl and placed him in there. good luck

Originally posted by kaleshchand
You may want to note that one of the oldest religions still practiced today is Hinduism, and in pure Hinduism God is actually known as "nirakar" meaning formless, and this is known as the most divine form of God.

That's kinda the same idea as "Eyn Sof" in Jewish Kabbalah, I think.

Just thought I'd add that. Most 'mystical' traditions have the same idea.

Originally posted by mikesk8s247
reply to post by loves a conspiricy

 

What? How does what hes said, translate to the bible being lies? It proves the existence of GOD and does not falsify the bible. Someone just doesnt want the bible to be true because they may be guilty.. hmmmm

No no way I am saying bible or anything else is false, they are what they are, if we happen to be talking about different Gods, then we happen to be talking about different Gods.

By the way using this definition of God, it actually encompassess all other Gods. Therefore it is also called God of Gods.

God created everything and himself. God Is Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Sometimes audio and visuals help...



With Love,

Your Brother

This is why I appreciate ATS members...Every post has something different and insightful in its own way. I have struggled all my 45 years with being raised Christian, knowing that many beliefs were irrational and horribly outdated. I had the intelligence to ask questions, but I was not smart enough to answer.

Very interesting on every viewpoint, however frustrating it may be to find an answer that will probably never fully come.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Just felt the urge to post here to express my fondness for that video. It just illustrates everything so well. I've watched it on more than one occasion for the sole purpose of "re-inspiration" during my more frustrating periods as a math major (and just in general, too.. it's remarkably uplifting).

If any one of you here reading has decided to just scroll past it, I'd really have to insist taking the time to watch it. It has no words or concepts that are left vulnerable to (mis)interpretation, just pure truth

There is no way to prove that God exist, all you will get is some good rational arguments and some irrational arguments, and then you will get into arguments. Here below is the best explanation for those that would like to accept that yes God exist, and for those that don't want to accept that God exist. Nothing more can I don't think be said about it. God Himself will choose those that He wants, because He knows who is needing Him and who doesn't want Him, and He will not impose Himself on anyone unless they truly want Him.

Is There a God? No one can prove to you the existence of God, as in a mathematical proof. But you still will be able to be certain of His existence: There are many good, rational arguments. We will make them in a moment. But if you do not want to believe in God, you never will. There can be no scientific proof, simply because God is not physical or material, He is spiritual and infinite. Science is the observation of material phenomena in this universe, and then applying our reason and logic to understand and control them. By definition, God cannot exist as part of this universe, cannot be composed of matter, and cannot even exist in time. We will explain why later on this page. But even things in this world cannot really be proven with 100% certainty. Entire books have been written about how the U.S. space program has been faked by the government. All you have to do is set the standards of proof high enough, and absolutely nothing can be proven. Proof is a tricky subject. As the old Greeks like Euclid discovered, all proofs have to rely on at least several assumptions (which they called postulates) which cannot themselves be proven. So a person who demands hard proofs is doomed to failure. It is a doctrine of the Church that faith does not come to us through reason alone, but by the grace of God. If a person opposes even the possiblity of God's existence, then any arguments or evidence can be rationalized away. Since it is impossible to "prove" with absolute certainty, any amount of belief in God has to come from your own spirit, from within your own heart, because it is the spirit of God that we are trying to find. The paradox is, you will only find this faith if God gives you the grace to find it. A person of faith already knows why they believe. It is not for any selfish reason, or because they want to be "saved." It is because they know they are a true child of God, and that we naturally seek Him and know Him as only a child can know their true parents. It is a completion of our lonely existence. It is a feeling of coming home. And it is a certainty that goes far beyond all efforts at "proof." Our faith is a pure gift from God. It is the result of our having accepted the gift of His grace.

www.forpersonalhelp.com...

reply to post by kaleshchand


Great post, I fully agree. I don't like to call it "God," too many evil connotations on that word. I would rather say "Mother," but what I really should call it is "The Force."
The Force is everywhere, within us all, and in everything we have and know. It is hear to use at our digression, but the energy is both positive and negative, and one can use both to bend the laws of nature if one knows how. If everyone was in true touch with the Force, the world would be a better place.

reply to post by kaleshchand


So wouldn't it make more sense to say our ancestors worship the Universe because it was so strange and powerful to them? Sorry but if anything your just furthering proving that there is no all knowing being.

Has anyone ever read the book "Gods Debris" by the author of Dilbert, Scott Adams? Scott Adams has come up with his own idea of what or who God really is, and he even ties it into physics, probability, and light, free will, evolution, luck, and will power among others His ideas are VERY powerful. One question he brings up is: If God is omnipotent (knows everything there is to know, past, present, and future) then what there has to be one question he cant answer... what happens when he ceases to exist.?

He thinks about it in relatively the same way you are, that God IS the universe, and everthing in it is part of him.

I'm not going to get too into to because you can download Gods Debris FOR FREE online. I HIGHLY SUGGEST EVERYONE READ IT, VERY VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING!!

Heres a link to download it:
nowscape.com...

Thumbs up on this thread

Originally posted by kaleshchand
When reading this thread please keep an open mind but not so open your brain falls out. The scientific group will (in my opinion) be able to see where I am going with this thread. But T think I need to be ready to be flamed by the religious group.

There are people *including myself* who do not conform nor do they affiliate themselves with certain
stereotypical groups your generalizations portray. Groups are what divide people.

Originally posted by kaleshchandI will not post any links in this post, because everything I state will be well known scientific facts.

I hope you are well aware of what the differences are between FACT and widely accepted conjecture...

Originally posted by kaleshchandDefinition of God
Lets face it, we cant prove/disprove something that has an unlimited number of definitions. So for this thread God will be defined by "generally accepted" qualities of God. So what are the qualities of God?

1. God has no beginning or end. (i.e. God was never "born" and can never die)
   
2. God is everywhere.
   
3. God is all powerful.
   
4. God is all knowing.
   

So we are looking for "someone" or "something" with those qualities.

The supposition that you "know" what a God, or The One True God is defined as tells me and everyone else
that you know little to nothing about the Existence of a God/Gods since you haven't ANY empirical data/evidence needed to ascertain the exact traits a God would possess. -See widely accepted conjecture-

Originally posted by kaleshchandTo simplify God is all matter and energy that there is. From now on I will use the word universe to describe all matter and energy that there is.


The second quality. God is everywhere. The universe is everywhere, God is everywhere, simple.

The third quality. God is all powerful. What is more powerful than the universe? nothing, because the universe compromises of everything. So universe is all powerful. and so is God.

The fourth quality. God is all knowing. Since the universe is "everything" it will mean that only the universe can know about everything, thus it is all knowing, and so is God.

Conclusion, the Universe is God, where universe is defined as "All matter and energy that there is". This definition is here for future proofing, so that it will automatically include multiverses, parallel universes, or any other universes that are discovered.

Obviously the discovery of something does not mean that the theorized existence of that something could never have possibly existed. -Only that it wasn't discovered *yet* This brings up the heart of the matter.

WHAT exists? And what does not (which also has theories about its existence) ?

The beauty of belief...Until then? You aren't wrong, but you aren't right either.


The fact is: you cannot offer up a supposition based on unsubstantiated conjecture as: absolute fact.
While your personal truth IS indeed self evident?

It is NOT conclusive evidence that supports YOUR intuition.

I do believe there is a Creator.
Outside of that? I have issues with (solely) believing in the bible, religion and/or science.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
reply to post by kaleshchand

 

This is not scientific proof of anything. All you've done is redefine "universe" as "god" and then try to apply the qualities of omniscience and omnipotence to it.

Congratulations. You've given your case for panentheism. Please come back again when you have actual scientific proof and something beyond a redefining of terminologies.

This except it's more pantheism than panentheism. That is, he describes God is in all, as opposed to all is in God. Subtle but important distinction.

Also, the fact that the OP use e=mc^2 to conclude that energy = mass. Incorrect, and incorrect use of a formula. The idea is that the amount of energy is produced from 2 factors; the amount of mass, and the velocity of light squared. By your thinking, god = velocity of light squared. What is the velocity of light? We know it's 186,000 miles per second. But what is it? A velocity is not energy, or mass. It is simply a word to describe something; in this case, the speed and direction of an object (light).

Originally posted by Nobama
reply to post by kaleshchand

 

So wouldn't it make more sense to say our ancestors worship the Universe because it was so strange and powerful to them? Sorry but if anything your just furthering proving that there is no all knowing being.

I'd like to add to what you just said.

Just because HIS opinions hurt his perceived affirmation (via your point of view) does not mean
his theory is wrong.

People (like you) have this false sense of debunking theories solely based upon YOUR perception
that something is amiss. -This too offers zero evidence-

There are a lot of ways to respond to this thread, but the best way is to simply state that proof wasn't really provided.

Who classified God as having has no beginning or end (i.e. God was never "born" and can never die, God being everywhere, God being all powerful, and God is all knowing? You can't prove that an entity that isn't qualitative to somehow be scientifically proven to exist by recounting the laws of physics and other descriptions for the universe. All you did was recount the laws of physics and recount other descriptions for the universe. However, that doesn't prove in the least bit that God exists.

Further, you shouldn't have to prove that God scientifically exists to anybody. Religious beliefs, and a belief in god, are just that... beliefs. A believer doesn't somehow need to justify their belief or prove that what they believe is true for somebody else.

There will never be a day when we can prove God exists. There will never be a day when we can prove God doesnt exist, so in my own opinion arguing over something that is impossible to prove/disprove is a silly waste of time.