The Real Scientific proof of GOD

Ever heard of the old saying 'you judge people by your own standards', well God is a idea which humans have, that we need a creator, moral guidance, person to blame, like we need leaders, kings/queens, boss's etc, we are used to order, with a hierarchy

but we are just very lucky mammals on a rock near a star in a galaxy, which there are billions of

truth is

ask this question, why do we need a god, or a creator

who says there had to be a leader, a intelligence (man made word for thinking and problem solving)

what if things are just the way they are.

and its always been that way

but lets be honest, we love and strive to find answers, its what makes us

lets keep looking to the stars with wonder and searching for knowledge, but lets take out the man made idea of we need a creator, let us understand we are what we are, good and bad

the god of old was what man needed to explain the madness around him, what do you think people 2000 years ago thought when they saw the sun, moon, stars, lighting, disease, fire, injustice, they looked in wonder and had to find reason, but God is not the answer IMHO

quote from 2001 Space Oddessy

Of all the creatures who had yet walked on Earth, the man-apes were the first to look
steadfastly at the Moon. And though he could not remember it, when he was very young Moon-Watcher would sometimes reach out and try to touch that ghostly face rising above the hills.
He had never succeeded, and now he was old enough to understand why. For first, of course, he
must find a high enough tree to climb.

enjoy the world, and be thankful we can learn of its beauty in are time on this planet

OP I think your in the right direction but your not going to find direct evidence God using Physics. ( Other than the Guy who started the Big Bang). Our understanding is still too green. So we check for his interactions and that's traditionally it's is more on the spiritual level, so got to use Sociology, Philosophy, etc...

Why did all society's evolve with an concept of God?
What would society be like if we had no concept of God?
How important is Faith?
Would we even have Science with out Faith?


I would also add since God has no beginning or end. His perception of time is non -liner. So past and future is all present to his perception. It also makes him consistent in his views i.e. he is not going to change his mind.

reply to post by bobbobulau

Originally posted by bobbobulau
OP I think your in the right direction but your not going to find direct evidence God using Physics. ( Other than the Guy who started the Big Bang). Our understanding is still too green.

We have more than enough understanding of physics to notice points in time where the laws of physics have been inexplicably violated...aka miracles.

So we check for his interactions and that's traditionally it's is more on the spiritual level, so got to use Sociology, Philosophy, etc...

Except for...creating the universe, directly intervening...

And what does philosophy have to do with spirituality?
And sociology is a method of understanding societies using scientific methodology...so that's not really a spiritual thing either.

Why did all society's evolve with an concept of God?

They didn't. Most that we're aware of did, but we've found at least one isolate culture that has no such conception.

What would society be like if we had no concept of God?

Concept? Well, we'd have vastly different fiction...but that's an odd question to ask. I don't believe in unicorns but I happen to have the concept.

How important is Faith?

Not.

Would we even have Science with out Faith?

Yes.

I would also add since God has no beginning or end. His perception of time is non -liner.

Assertion from speculation...

So past and future is all present to his perception. It also makes him consistent in his views i.e. he is not going to change his mind.

Then it is a logically contradictory being. It is the architect of all things yet is unable to assert free will.

reply to post by kaleshchand


Proof of God? Get out! brb

reply to post by kaleshchand


I admire your attempt to satisfy the Atheists (who are inclined in disbelief), but it won't satisfy the believers. You can't claim the creation is the creator, as the creation and the creator are separate.

I think the OP was very well thought out, and it made sense to me that God was energy, therefore always was and will be. (where God came from was something I struggled to understand very much as a child)

With that in mind, it makes sense that the BIG BANG actually existed, it had to be brought about by some force of energy as well.

I must say what Faith posted on theomatics was very enlightening,and that is something I will definatley try to read up more on, though she laid it out so well in her post, I almost feel like I understand the concept of it well enough already. (thankyou for that post)

The whole concept and study of theomatics also supports ,in my mind, the theory of the OP

(but then again my mind is very limited in its scope of understanding, although it is refreshed to read something
that actually makes sense to it)

Alot of good posts in this thread,need to go back and read some again,and some I missed.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

We have more than enough understanding of physics to notice points in time where the laws of physics have been inexplicably violated...aka miracles.

Who said that miracles couldn’t be explained by Science. They may have not been able at the time they occurred due to the lack of human knowledge. After all God created the Universe so he is familiar with it’s capabilities. Also what makes a miracle is the timing. Understand the purpose of the miracle.

xcept for...creating the universe, directly intervening...

Ya, but we aren’t technically capable to do it. Unless you have some data to explain who started the Big Bang? I don't think it’s not gonging to happen just not any time soon.

And what does philosophy have to do with spirituality?

I think there have been a few philosophers who thought about the principles of right and wrong. Many weren’t religious and provide a separate doctrine from religion, thus providing credence to religious belief with out being influenced by religion.

And sociology is a method of understanding societies using scientific methodology...so that's not really a spiritual thing either.

Correct, my suggestion was to use different scientific discipline to prove the existence of God. I believe we could find evidence of him though his interaction and his effects on society.

They didn't. Most that we're aware of did, but we've found at least one isolate culture that has no such conception.

Just curios what culture was this?

Concept? Well, we'd have vastly different fiction...but that's an odd question to ask. I don't believe in unicorns but I happen to have the concept.

Did the concept of unicorns help shape the society you live in for the better?
Did it influence the Woman’s Rights or the Civil Rights movements?
Did it proved the foundations of justice or law?
Are you influenced by society or do you live in a bubble?

How important is Faith?

Not.

Would we even have Science with out Faith?

Yes.

Explain why would a Scientist do all his research and publish it, if he didn’t have Faith in his concept? It’s not like the scientific community is open to new ideas. Where Einstein, Newton, etc.. ideas accepted from the scientific community on face value?

Sorry, Faith is one of the most important aspects to humanity. With out it how would we develop the ability to look beyond our immediate environment?

Assertion from speculation...

Possibly but don’t mean it’s incorrect

“Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure’” (Isaiah 46:9–10).

“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
(Revelation 22: 13)

Then it is a logically contradictory being. It is the architect of all things yet is unable to assert free will.

Just because you don’t change your mind doesn’t mean you don’t have free will. Free Will is making a choice on your own accord.

reply to post by neOrevolutionist


That doesn't seem to answer the question at all.

The question on why God tests us if he is so loving and kind. Your response did not answer the question,just gave more examples of where he tested in the bible??

i still have yet to see the "scientific proof of god"

/thread

there is many Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

from Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543) to Max Planck (1858-1947) and others after him

Planck made many contributions to physics, but is best known for quantum theory, which revolutionized our understanding of the atomic and sub-atomic worlds. In his 1937 lecture "Religion and Naturwissenschaft," Planck expressed the view that God is everywhere present, and held that "the holiness of the unintelligible Godhead is conveyed by the holiness of symbols." Atheists, he thought, attach too much importance to what are merely symbols. Planck was a churchwarden from 1920 until his death, and believed in an almighty, all-knowing, beneficent God (though not necessarily a personal one). Both science and religion wage a "tireless battle against skepticism and dogmatism, against unbelief and superstition" with the goal "toward God!"

reply to post by russguy123


But none of them presented objective evidence in support of the claim deities exist. They stated an OPINION.

Also, you listing those scientists as if it's some sort of proof is a common flawed way to argument a position...it's called "argument from authority"

reply to post by russguy123


...so?

All sorts of famous people either did or did not believe in any deity. There are a lot of people on either side. It does us nothing to randomly pull great names out of a hat to support our position. Great minds believed in your deity, what of it? Great minds also didn't believe in it.

Originally posted by kaleshchand

God is all powerful.

God is all powerful?
God cannot create a wall he cannot jump over!
The Universe cannot jump in the first place.
God is infinitely more capable that the Universe of being God.

Peace,
SeraphNB

reply to post by bobbobulau

Who said that miracles couldn’t be explained by Science. They may have not been able at the time they occurred due to the lack of human knowledge. After all God created the Universe so he is familiar with it’s capabilities. Also what makes a miracle is the timing. Understand the purpose of the miracle.

Miracles by their own definition can not be explained by science. Also, you assume people 2,000 years ag were not intelligent. Granted, they don't possess the knowledge we have today; but, they were far from unintelligent.

Please provide evidence that God created the Universe. Scripture is not a form of evidence. You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible.

Ya, but we aren’t technically capable to do it. Unless you have some data to explain who started the Big Bang? I don't think it’s not gonging to happen just not any time soon.

You assume a Creator is responsible for the Big Bang. That is fine by me but there is no evidence that the Big Bang was created by a "who". It's more plausible that it just occurred naturally, or that it always has been. Remember, matter and energy can never be created nor destroyed.

Correct, my suggestion was to use different scientific discipline to prove the existence of God. I believe we could find evidence of him though his interaction and his effects on society.

Awesome, how do you suppose we go about testing a supernatural being thru naturalistic means? Your methods would be Nobel worthy, and the first.

Did the concept of unicorns help shape the society you live in for the better?
Did it influence the Woman’s Rights or the Civil Rights movements?
Did it proved the foundations of justice or law?
Are you influenced by society or do you live in a bubble?

Did the concept of God help shape the society we live in for the better? Yes, it has also brought segregation amongst believers and non-believers (us vs them mentality), countless wars, high school drama, and the suppression of knowledge. The burning of the library at Alexandria is a key point amongst many.

According to the Bible woman are to remain silent and humble towards their husbands, and men in general. I find it absurd that you would inject that line of questioning. Men can subject their woman to whatever he pleases; not very civil if you ask me.

Sure the Bible provided justice and law. If you consider stoning children, having women marry their rapists, slavery, killing homosexuals, being condemned to death for adultery, if you have a dream that goes against God you are to be killed, kill everyone of a different religion, and the list goes on. Most laws are punishable by death.

I'd say everyone is influenced by society, not by God, or gods.

Explain why would a Scientist do all his research and publish it, if he didn’t have Faith in his concept? It’s not like the scientific community is open to new ideas. Where Einstein, Newton, etc.. ideas accepted from the scientific community on face value?

I think you misunderstand the word faith. Faith is defined as belief in something that lacks evidence. If you don't like that answer then look to the Bible for it's definition. It's the same one we use.

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Sorry, Faith is one of the most important aspects to humanity. With out it how would we develop the ability to look beyond our immediate environment?

Faith is for the gullible.

“Remember the former things of old, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure’” (Isaiah 46:9–10).

It's always been interesting to me that God would profess multiple times he is the only God. Why would he have to? If he has to tell his creations to not worship other gods, it's reasonable to conclude there are in fact other gods out there and he wants all the attention.

Just because you don’t change your mind doesn’t mean you don’t have free will. Free Will is making a choice on your own accord.

Free will is an illusion in the Bible. There are plenty of references that point to God having a pre-destined set of plans already mapped out. I mean, it's God's WIll, right?

Romans 9:11-13 - (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

However, God gives you a choice.

Deuteronomy 30:19 - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

Which is it? Quite the contradiction there. I wish God would make up my mind.

reply to post by novastrike81


That Romans quote was from Jacob talking about his sons, last I check, he wasn't considered a prophet of God, unlike Moses. And that's not even covering the fact that the point you were trying to illustrate WASN'T IN THE QUOTE.

Not contradictory.

Originally posted by Cuppy
reply to post by novastrike81

 

That Romans quote was from Jacob talking about his sons, last I check, he wasn't considered a prophet of God, unlike Moses. And that's not even covering the fact that the point you were trying to illustrate WASN'T IN THE QUOTE.

Not contradictory.

Your apologetic attempt to dismiss that quote was weak at best. First, Jacob didn't have a son named Jacob. This passage is saying God has the right to save who he wants to save and damn whomever he feels like it. Most of us call this favoritism. Unless you want to spin it off to mean whatever you like as most Christians do; which is where your quote is leading to.

Originally posted by novastrike81

Your apologetic attempt to dismiss that quote was weak at best. First, Jacob didn't have a son named Jacob. This passage is saying God has the right to save who he wants to save and damn whomever he feels like it. Most of us call this favoritism. Unless you want to spin it off to mean whatever you like as most Christians do; which is where your quote is leading to.

Where the hell did you get apologetic? I got it wrong, it was Isaac talking. And I would say that your interpretation is a stretched attempt to bring Christians down at best.

I have no idea what that passage means but it doesn't call for favoritism, man.

Originally posted by Cuppy

Originally posted by novastrike81

Your apologetic attempt to dismiss that quote was weak at best. First, Jacob didn't have a son named Jacob. This passage is saying God has the right to save who he wants to save and damn whomever he feels like it. Most of us call this favoritism. Unless you want to spin it off to mean whatever you like as most Christians do; which is where your quote is leading to.

Where the hell did you get apologetic? I got it wrong, it was Isaac talking. And I would say that your interpretation is a stretched attempt to bring Christians down at best.

I have no idea what that passage means but it doesn't call for favoritism, man.

It was Paul talking. Have you read the Bible, I'm just curious. It's not meant to be a personal attack; it just degrades the learning process and creates unnecessary conflict. I'm showing you what the Bible says. If you think I'm being mean then fine. It says that God loves Jacob and hates Esau.

I also realize there is different interpretations of this passage as well. It just shows that even Christians can't agree on what the Bible should mean. You can stretch a lot of passages to mean what you want.

Originally posted by novastrike81
It was Paul talking. Have you read the Bible, I'm just curious. It's not meant to be a personal attack; it just degrades the learning process and creates unnecessary conflict. I'm showing you what the Bible says. If you think I'm being mean then fine. It says that God loves Jacob and hates Esau.

I also realize there is different interpretations of this passage as well. It just shows that even Christians can't agree on what the Bible should mean. You can stretch a lot of passages to mean what you want.

I would hate Esau too, he and his family completely disregarded God's teaching and (if I'm not mistaken), went on to become the Horebites. Or something along those lines.

reply to post by Cuppy


I understand your position and it makes sense that God would hate Esau based on his actions during his lifetime. However, Romans 9:11 clearly points out that "Even before they had been born or done anything goood or bad..." Both Jacob and Esau had done nothing wrong prior to being born, yet God had already chosen who to love and who to hate.

I can't think of any other way to spin it.