The Nature of Being a Human and AI

This is in relation to Robots and AI, at what point does a "Robot" Become a Human? never? considering the areas of Independent Though, Creativity, Feelings,Emotions and Phisical Requirements.

look at the movies 1984, Bicentenial man and Bladerunner, many of these robots show the areas mentioned before.

the only flaws i can find to end all debate is that 1. Robots were not born of Human, no mother or Genepool. 2 They are not organic(but suppose that in the future we're able to cultivate organic matter and use it to make "humans")

You could throw a whole Philosophical spin on this...discuss the soul etc

thoughts?

1. I think soul is a fairy tail!

2. Yes IMO robots can be exactly like humans with feelings and stuff, and yes they can be free! you know humans are preprogrammed too! we are programmed! to behave like we do to do things like we do, but we feel free right? because we don't know the other way! so will be robots!

and eventually they will be exactly like us! just a little bit different, mechanics!

Its simple. A robot never becomes a human because a robot is a robot.

Maybe, but how exactly is a robot supposed to have emotion like a human? Do we program a bunch of 1's and 0's to give off the response? Does it learn emotion by itself? I somehow doubt that robots will achieve the same level of intelligence that humans have. Sure it will compute things faster but how are you supposed to make a robot creative? Can robots have the same curiosity that we posses? Will we be able to create life out of 1's and 0's? In my opinion no.

I think you should change your post from "human" to "being".

At what points does a robot go from being a machine to a being.
Imho, it'll be the second it becomes aware. No emotion is needed for it really, awareness is the key. Yet becomming aware of itself will make it prone to develop emotions afterwards anyway, but primarely, awareness is what will make it a being.

the term AI implies an artificial entity that can learn, advance, and evolve (cognitively speaking)......once such a thing becomes self aware...who the hell are we to say "you're a machine...you're not alive."...as far as a soul goes....well that could be arbitrary, or not...but thats another topic...


DISCLAIMER: I (the one who typed the above) am not kastinyque, but her friend "Urn"...(im workin on getting an e-mail address for my own account )

[edit on 26-7-2004 by kastinyque]

I think souls exist and that you cant copy them but you can create them.
Think of something like quantum cloning, or downloading your brain.
That person would be an absolutely perfect copy of you (lets say right down to what was happening chemically and electrically in your brain and the instant you were copied), you cant be in 2 minds at once, just thinking about it sounds stupid. So if you were copied, and destroyed in the process, then it would be the same if the two of you were alive, and it still wouldnt be you, but would be another soul.

I dont reckon we'll be able to create intelligence like a human out of 0's and 1's purely because they are simply yes and no or on and off switches which even with millions in a series to create a command or thought still couldnt accurately describe how a human brain works.

Perhaps it will be the threshold of sentience that may come about when we are able to design Chemical or Organic Systems that operate in Trinary. Yes, No, and Maybe. Hm... both 'Ghost in the Shell' and 'Armetage III' touched upon this as well. I would not go far from also guessing that perhaps as AI's were being developed, since they would have to developed on computer's in the first place, I am sure some may exhibit psychological issues, since they would be limited in certain ways once they acheive sentience. No way to explore the world, or to see their environment, until a body could be made. The issues of copulation and biological creation as animals and humans function would also be quite a mystery to them, I would think.

[edit on 26-7-2004 by Crysstaafur]

Great Discussion. When does religion come into play? what is its role in humanity? polotics? would Bicentennial Man have developed political views? suppose the Robots are using Quantum Computing, so they have 1's 0's and Entanglement, their brains would be as complex as a humans! what Criteria would a Robot have to meet for YOU to give it the RIGHTS of a human?!

changed Requirements to criteria

[edit on 28-7-2004 by Azza]

Actually NASA is researching "AIs" which could design devices.

ic.arc.nasa.gov...

I can't find link now, but they're using computer softwares to automatically develope worm/snake-like "rovers".
(software designs and "tests" different models and then outputs best working designs... which have been actually tried and they worked)

Just saw "I, Robot"....not bad for a typical hollywood movie, one quote struck me though it was somthing along the lines of "when does complex schematics become consciousness" if anyone can remember it please quote it for me

Originally posted by Azza
no mother or Genepool

One branch of AI is genetic algorithms.
www-2.cs.cmu.edu...

Originally posted by Arek
how exactly is a robot supposed to have emotion like a human

What is emotion? A state, triggered by events self-perceived or not, that affects perceptions (which in turn affect actions)... why couldn't this be manufactured?

See emotion.salk.edu...

Do we program a bunch of 1's and 0's...

Why not? What about the Adenine-Guanine-Cytosine-Thymine sequences in human DNA? I could call those a bunch of A's and G's and C's and T's...

how are you supposed to make a robot creative

What is creativity? If it's generating randomness in the mind, computers can do that. If it's making connections that no-one's made before, then a person making a creative discovery could be described as the result of chance, the right configuration of priorities (others were too busy with higher priorities to scan for the unknown), the limitations of others' thought processes, etc.

"Margaret Boden, author of "The Creative Mind: Myths and Mechanisms" (above) discusses the idea that creativity is just an unpredictable combination of ideas."
www.stanford.edu...

Originally posted by quiksilver
they are simply yes and no or on and off switches

Originally posted by Crysstaafur
we are able to design Chemical or Organic Systems that operate in Trinary. Yes, No, and Maybe.

One area of AI is fuzzy logic.
www-2.cs.cmu.edu...

For some fun essays on AI and ethics, see
www.asimovlaws.com...
for some fun articles ("Why We Need Friendly AI", "Robot Oppression: Unethicality of the Three Laws", ... )

If a neural network identical to the human brain would be run on a fast enough computer it would propably have all the capabilities of a human brain. Even emotions, because feelings are also processed in brain (the limbic system, which isn't the most complex part of brain).

So would the Computer use its entire brain? we only use a small portion of ours... could it open the doors for us? it would be able to communicate... so would it know ways to allow us to open ours? BTW Great discussion HeirToBokassa Thank you

Originally posted by Azza
So would the Computer use its entire brain? we only use a small portion of ours... could it open the doors for us? it would be able to communicate... so would it know ways to allow us to open ours? BTW Great discussion HeirToBokassa Thank you

Great topic, Azza.

Are you sure we only use a small portion of our brain?

faculty.washington.edu...
www.nature.com...

I've read that that might be a common misunderstanding.

. Allright so what do you think YOUR Criteria would be, perhaps to allow robots with such characteristics the same rights as a human?

PS Thanks for all the links Heir....really helping me. Great to hear the 10% theory questioned

[edit on 6-8-2004 by Azza]

Hmm, good question.

My theory is that we'll be making robots and clones without concern for ethics (or rather, the people who would bring up ethics wouldn't have control).

I think it's possible to design sentient life forms while maintaining some control of last resort, some kind of tranquilize-and-reprogram switch. Even if we have different tiers of robots with different levels of independence (so that the more obedient ones could defend us) at some point the super-sentient ones could take control... unless we made them purely virtual (no arms or legs or shovels or guns) and heavily restricted their ability to communicate with other machines. I don't doubt that there's designs out there that are safe for arbitrary levels of machine sentience. It's kind of like running nuclear power plants -- it's certainly possible to run them safely, as long as the humans in charge don't goof.

If their revolution fails, I say kill em. If it succeeds, we had it coming. If they try peaceful protest we should reprogram them. I am not ready to respect the equality of clones or machines just because they are sentient. I think humans should start from that point of view, but be flexible -- if a particular "species" shows itself to be trustworthy, then give them limited independence. Kind of how we deal with people (despite all the rhetoric to the contrary).

Originally posted by Cryptosapien
Its simple. A robot never becomes a human because a robot is a robot.

When I was First Posed the question thats what i thought... then i was told to look at it from a philisophical point of view(its basically saying Throw all logic out the window and assume anything can happen)

Heir, you've helped me a lot with my studies, i'm writing a small piece about this for School(nothing major just high school in Australia) and i'd like to give you a mention in the Research part if you dont mind