BBC Reports : Cloud whitening is just one of a range of strategies known as "geoengineering"

Climate 'technical fix' may yield warming, not cooling
www.bbc.co.uk...

Whitening clouds by spraying them with seawater, proposed as a "technical fix" for climate change, could do more harm than good, according to research.

It has since been developed by a number of other researchers including University of Edinburgh wave energy pioneer Stephen Salter, joining a number of other "geoengineering" techniques that would attempt either to reduce solar radiation reaching earth or absorb carbon dioxide from the air.

The ships would continually spray fine jets of seawater droplets into the sky, where tiny salt crystals would act as nuclei around which water vapour would condense, producing clouds or thickening them where they already exist.

Here are some of the main quotes from the article. Another report on this from the UK's Royal Society about geoengineering can be found here news.bbc.co.uk...

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Granted these reports doesn't confirm anything in relation to the conspiracy that is "Chemtrails" but around here it seems some people that "debunk" them don't seem to understand that there IS talk with universities and societies about the possibility of manipulating the skies above us to possibly "Help Us".

Also the concept of using these ships to spray the salt water seems very interesting. Possibly a way for TPTB to conduct certain other geoengineering agendas but making the general public think that its totally normal. Once again doesn't say anything about "chemtrails" but just a few things to notes are :-

"Cloud whitening is just one of a range of strategies"
"joining a number of other "geoengineering" techniques"

link these 2 quotes with

"The ships would continually spray fine jets of seawater droplets into the sky"
"producing clouds or thickening them where they already exist."

equals my quote which I think the answer is

Possibly a way for TPTB to conduct certain other geoengineering agendas but making the general public think that its totally normal.

Discuss!!

reply to post by Drustew

Granted these reports doesn't confirm anything in relation to the conspiracy that is "Chemtrails" but around here it seems some people that "debunk" them don't seem to understand that there IS talk with universities and societies about the possibility of manipulating the skies above us to possibly "Help Us".

You are wrong there, they are fully aware of the science behind it, and the proposed use of these technologies, they just choose to ignore it because most "chemtrails" are normal contrails misidentified by people listening to Alex Jones and Coast to Coast AM nonsense.

cloud seeding is a tested method and it's been used for years and really doesn't have anything to do with the "chemtrails" the chemtrailers are talking about. It's basic science. Water droplets form high up around matter which lets them stick together and fall as rain (or create clouds). When the conditions are right, all you need to do is add some material for the water droplets to cling to. This can be done by planes and even artillery air bursts.

Some of the proposed applications follow a similar plan, but involved adding aluminum particles into the upper atmosphere to help generate extra cloud cover, and reflect some of the incoming solar energy.

Ignoring the entire global ecosystems we have yet to understand, it sounds plausible. But then you've got to take into account what adding all that particulate will actually do, it's not going to stay aloft for ever.

Some of the recent stuff about Germany and chemtrails is laughable, it's chaff, simple as that, radar reducing chaff.

I honestly don't think they are past even the cursory planning stages personally, but I'm also not so stunned as to ignore ample evidence that they are actively thinking about these applications. Governments usually don't spend money on patents and technology unless they can see a use for them. Even if that use is merely denying the "enemy" that technology.

I can't tell you the first time I heard about "chemtrails" but the next few days every single cloud was suspect. then i did something funny. I deleted my links to Alex Jones radio, and started reading information about contrails and atmospheric conditions. I've seen some video that appears to be a out of the norm contrail, but without extensive atmospheric condition information, there's no reason to call it anything but a contrail.

contrails can last all day under the right conditions, and usually these "chemtrail" reports happen during those exact conditions.

Sorry to ramble on, good post, hopefully it doesn't turn into the rest of these type of threads
====

Forgot to mention that from what I've read, material released low in the atmosphere helps reduce incoming energy, but that same material too high up in the atmosphere acts as an insulator keeping the heat on us. So it might be wise for the chemtrailers to try to identify relative altitudes of their questionable planes.

Thank you for your in depth reply on this subject good sir. I suppose the real word I should have used was geoengineering rather than "chemtrails". The main idea I was trying to get across was that these concepts are clearly out there and they are manipulating the skies above us. Dis-information as we know gets used a lot in relation to certain government ops and am just saying that this could be one.

I did listen to Alex Jones around a year ago but haven't went back to his rambling since so not sure what he's saying nowadays. But to me this just seems like there planting the seed of "dis-info" just in case they are/are going to manipulate the skies another way instead of just the situation shown above.

reply to post by Drustew


I'm curious, did you put this in skunk works or did one of the mods? It isn't highly speculative. This is a BBC report, and the topic is geoengineering.

There is a major disinfo campaign against the notion of "chemtrails". I have no reason to stick to this word. Let's just observe what's going on and call a spade a spade.

The clouds are obviously being manipulated. Various experiments are obviously being conducted. All you need is a little bit of common sense and powers of observation to see this is clearly taking place.

Originally posted by unityemissions

I'm curious, did you put this in skunk works or did one of the mods? It isn't highly speculative. This is a BBC report, and the topic is geoengineering.

It was myself that placed it here. Don't know why I don't really understand the term "Skunk Works" anyway but it just seems where all the geoengineering threads go.

reply to post by Drustew


Gotcha.

Just so that others know, here's how the disinfo usually plays out:

1st, they associate anything that isn't traditional cloud seeding with the term "chemtrails".

Next they associate chemtrails with extremes. They give you two choices to choose from. They box the average mind.

1st option:

Chemtrails exist, and are there for the purpose of killing us all

2nd option:

Chemtrails are nothing but contrails. They don't really exist


There is NO gray area. Their reasoning is meant to box simple minded people. It is insanely nonsensical.

Originally posted by Drustew
Granted these reports doesn't confirm anything in relation to the conspiracy that is "Chemtrails" but around here it seems some people that "debunk" them don't seem to understand that there IS talk with universities and societies about the possibility of manipulating the skies above us to possibly "Help Us".

Well that's a load of rubbish.

Chemtrail debunkers are perfectly aware of research into geo-engineering.

So are chemtrail proponents - some of them keep punting up paper after paper on the subject as if it was evidence of chemtrails having been going for het last 15 years, apparently completely oblivious to the actual content of het papers as research, studies, etc., looking into what MIGHT be done.

Very possibly some of this stuff will actually be done in the next 10-20 years.

But even then it still won't be evidence of chemtrails from the mid-1990's to now!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


You want evidence, look up.

Use common sense.

Not sure how old you are, but if you didn't realize the transition...your perception is....not so strong.

reply to post by Drustew

Granted these reports doesn't confirm anything in relation to the conspiracy that is "Chemtrails" but around here it seems some people that "debunk" them don't seem to understand that there IS talk with universities and societies about the possibility of manipulating the skies above us to possibly "Help Us".

Have you actually read any of the 1000's of "chemtrail" threads here on ATS?

From your statement it appears that would be negative.

"Debunkers" have been stating this all along, that there is in fact TALKING going on about geoengineering, but TALK is much different than IMPLEMENTATION.

But little things like that cannot phase the "chemtrail" agenda.

reply to post by unityemissions

You want evidence, look up.

Learning the basics of aviation and meteorology before performing this operation is detrimental to a comprehensive understanding at the physical observations being made.

Performing the task you suggest with the absence of studying the aformentioned areas of science is not reccomended as it can have severe side effects.

Side effects may include, but are not limited to:

Misidentification of known cloud types.

Paranoia

Difficulty sleeping

Thoughts of pesticide

Incorrectlly interpreting data

Irritability

Misidentifying aircraft

___________________________

If you still believe in "chemtrails" and have not yet tried RESEARCHIFY, ask your doctor today!

*studies show that Researchify, when used in conjunction with Common Sense can severely reduce the lack of understanding of aviation, meteorology and paranoia.

**If you experience a pretension lasting 4 or more hours, please seek help immediately, as a lack of understanding of aviation and meteorology can lead to shameless self promotion of disinformation aimed at lining the pockets of the people that fooled you.

Chemtrail nonsense aside it's interesting to note that the information detailed in the BBC article is almost 10 years old.

Cloud whitening was originally proposed back in 1990 by John Latham, now of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, US.

In a 2002 scientific paper, Dr Latham wrote: "... the overall result could be a reduction in cloud droplet concentration, with concomitant reductions in albedo and cloud longevity, ie a warming effect".

Why are they discussing this now?

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

You want evidence, look up.

I see contrails.

Use common sense.

I do - that's why I see contrails.

Not sure how old you are,

51 - now you are sure.

but if you didn't realize the transition...your perception is....not so strong.

Which transition are you talking about?

Haha!

If you can't see how many have been misinformed from the illogic, you're on your own.

It's 2011, kiddos, and the disinfo bots have been hard at work for close to a decade...at least.


Peace!

reply to post by unityemissions


I'd have thought you would be eager to show how I am wrong - resorting to "If you don't know I'm not going to tell you" seems a bit childish

I shall take from it that you you can't actually answer the questions.

Here's another BBC article - whitening clouds may warm the earth, not cool it

Maybe some more research is needed??

reply to post by Drustew

Granted these reports doesn't confirm anything in relation to the conspiracy that is "Chemtrails" but around here it seems some people that "debunk" them don't seem to understand that there IS talk with universities and societies about the possibility of manipulating the skies above us to possibly "Help Us".

Also the concept of using these ships to spray the salt water seems very interesting. Possibly a way for TPTB to conduct certain other geoengineering agendas but making the general public think that its totally normal. Once again doesn't say anything about "chemtrails" but just a few things to notes are :-

"Cloud whitening is just one of a range of strategies"
"joining a number of other "geoengineering" techniques"

Not a secret, and not effective. Most hypothetetical "geoengineering" schemes fail under scrutiny or do not meet the risk/benefit analysis tests to justify their implementation. Not one has been proven to be safe and effective at mitigating or "curing" the problem they seek to address.

I have posted elsewhere in these regards that several theoretical responses to "global warming" have been studied and tested in public.

Many of these were documented in a "Discovery Channel" (I think) television series.

All of them failed for various reasons. Most of them actually increased the release of CO2 into the atmosphere during the tests (a fact conveniently overlooked by the producers).

For those whose lives and agendas are driven by the AGW hypothesis, there are piles of money, lots of publicity and an ever-growing body of receptive acolytes to keep them going.

deny ignorance
jw

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


You're free to feel whatever you want.

How am I to prove you wrong?

Get a grip, kid.

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

How am I to prove you wrong?

Presumably by semonstrating the illogic you say I've been misinformed by.

you said:

If you can't see how many have been misinformed from the illogic, you're on your own

So I am assuming you have not been misinformed by the illogic, so you can tell me how it is that I have been.

Seems simple enough - you up for it?

Get a grip, kid.

State you case gramps

Try this one on for size, terra-forming, They are manipulating our enviroment with no public hearings or debate about what they are actually doing. Any time we let them get away with this it sets a precedence that they can use in a Court of law to justify their actions.

Do you really want people like this making decisions that affect your life while keeping you ignorant of their actions?