An experiment for Conservatives

Here is an experiment for the conservatives who want to tell everyone that believe that Social Security and Medicare are "entitlement programs"

Go into a store, any store will do, pick a bunch of stuff that you want. Bring it to the counter, pay for it, then leave the store without it.

That's what Conservatives want everyone to do.

Each and every week, I pay for Social Security and Medicare, but for some reason, thinking that someday I may take this money that I have paid into the system, Conservatives think I am doing something wrong.

So, there it is, the experiment, go into any store of your choosing, pick out items you want, go and pay for those items, and leave them at the store, because that is what you are wanting everyone to do.

The other thing they want, is for us to give money to wall street.

So, there's an experiment for that too, go out, find a thief, bum, some other low life scum, give him your money, and ask him to go to the store for you. See how well that goes.

I don't understand the US system. In Australia I don't mind paying taxes for free health care - so many people need it, myself included. Is medicare over there the same as the medicare over here? In that you pay a bit of tax and get free healthcare whenever you need it? I'm glad of that, otherwise, when I was a starving student, I never would've gotten much needed medical attention whenever I got seriously injured (and believe me it happened a lot and still does).

Is social security a welfare system? I don't mind paying some tax to support those people who really need welfare, although the system is much abused over here, as I'm sure it is there too. I don't understand why people hate paying taxes so much, when so many people really benefit from it. Of course, necessary and useful taxes are one thing, and unfair taxes another.

reply to post by whatukno
I love this thread!




I have another experiment. Ask Sarah Palin where Russia is. And she can't have it written on her hand thats cheating!

Only if you
Go into said "store" pick out some items you want ( say condoms;lilith fair tickets; foam cowboy hats and a package of hotdogs); then choose any 4 other shoppers at random and make them pay for it?

reply to post by whatukno


If you know you are not going to get anything out of it, which is the case to day based on your age, why would you pay in? In your example, its like going into the store, buying a box of Mike & Ikes and finding out that the box is empty. Thats the way it is now.

You may not have a problem putting your money into a system that is going to give you a marginal return and thats fine. What is not fine is asking others who are willing to take the risk to manage their own retirement income. Should folks who go that route get something from the entitlement? No.

Its called an entitlement by the way because you will take out of it far more than you put in. Its called an entitlement because no matter how long you are retired, you will get the same amount of money for the rest of your life. If you put in money that over time was equal to X amount and you drew down that amount over the span of your retirement that would not be an entitlement.

Give my money to Wall Street? You better believe I'm going to give my money to Wall Street. Wall Street has made me a lot of money, over 30% return over the past 3 years.

reply to post by whatukno


I don't know how old you are but the chances are great that you will never see a dime of your contributions by the time you are ready to collect. I know I won't and I certainly don't have the answers either. One thing is certain. These programs will self destruct if measures are not taken soon to correct the ills of the system.

The answer is not raising taxes either. What will the tax rate be when Social Security is at a 1:1 ratio of worker and recipient? Will I have to put the needs of the recipient above the needs of me and my family.

We should have started a personal retirement savings program decades ago. That program has been a tremendous success in Chile.

We are headed for an iceberg of grand proportions if this nation stays on its current course. When SS and Medicare were created no one ever thought that our nation would be in the state that its in now. Hear that ear shattering sucking sound on our nations finances? I hear it and I also feel it. Immigration problems, people living way above the old age averages, fraud and more fraud all contribute to the guaranteed death of our entitlement structure.

What will happen with the tit runs dry? Just look to Europe to find that answer.

I thought this was a good one.


A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very Liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words; redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends, because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked , 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'

She replied, ' Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'

Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA, and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, 'Welcome to The Republican party.'



If anyone has a better explanation of the difference between Republican and Democrat I'm all ears.

If you ever wondered what side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
If a liberal Democrat doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.
If a liberal Democrat is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a liberal Democrat is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A liberal Democrat wonders who is going to take care of him.

If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.
If a liberal Democrat doesn't like a talk show host he demands the show be shut down.

If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.
A liberal Democrat non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.

If a conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh when they see the truth in print.
A liberal Democrat will delete it because he's "offended".

I must go to work now. People on welfare are counting on me to support them

reply to post by whatukno


If I'm lucky, I'll get slightly over a one percent return on my investment. Sorry, I'll keep my money.

reply to post by dolphinfan


You go ahead and put your money in Wall Street.

I don't see that kind of risk as worthy in this economy.

There are plenty of well-fed fat cats that don't need my money.

reply to post by skeet


Just one problem with this post: Not all "liberals" think alike.

Deny Ignorance.

It is a ponzee scheme, not a savings account. And because of this it will only work so long as the numbers contributed into it continue to rise year after year... But this wont happen because the baby boom stopped and therefore we cant keep up. Sad really.

Just a little something to chew on while cruising this thread.

Last year alone Medicare and Medicaid made $70 Billion in improper payments. Is that reasonable? I thinks that's money better spent somewhere else or not at all. That a lot of cash in one year. Play with those numbers as averages for the last 10 years and the next 10 years and your head will explode.

The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services—the federal health-care agency that is a key bureaucracy in implementing Obamacare—made at least $70.5 billion in “improper payments” last year.

These improper federal health-care payments amounted to more than the combined total of $68.3 billion spent by the entire Homeland Security and the State departments last year, which spent $44.5 billion and $23.8 billion respectively according to the White House Office of Management and Budget.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by whatukno


I don't want you to give your money to anyone you are not willingly wanting to enter a contract with. If you like social security, I have no problem with it; I do. I have no say in the matter; less I, A: Don't work or B: Work under the table.

It is a forced contract in which an individual has no say in regards if they want to be able to function within the United States of America.

I have no desire to take away what other want to engage in. But why such a backlash to a possible alternative to the Government Whatukno? Why do you have a problem with a subset of individuals that wish not to be part of that which they have no say in?

Here's a rough plan. Maintain the current Social Security plan but concurrently introduce legislation that 'allows' us (which they would have to do...yet that is freedom I guess) to place the money that we would normally put into Social Security into a private account. An account that I can play with, I can watch, I can see and have much more faith than the general fund in which our social security monies is being dumped into.

I would be more than glad to contribute 50% of my current holdings in Social Security if I could opt out of the bottomless pit. Keep it. My gift to the government and the people that are on the cusp and already drawing from the system that will be broke in years to come.

reply to post by The Sword


OK, the market is too risky for you. Reasonable decision.

I'll pay the fat cat. I pay him 20% of the gains he generates on my portfolio, all in including transaction fees, regardless of the size of the account. He generates me a $10 return, he gets $2 and I keep the $8. He loses money, he does not get paid. I'm good with that arrangement. Does he need the money? Of course not, he's rich. Unfortunately I don't have the skill nor the time to generate the level of return he can, so I'm quite happy to pay him.

Originally posted by skeet
I thought this was a good one.


A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very Liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words; redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch conservative Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends, because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked , 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'

She replied, ' Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'

Her wise father asked his daughter, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA, and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That's a crazy idea, how would that be fair! I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'

welcome to the republican party.

If a conservative is homosexual, he hides it and gets busted for gay sex affairs as so many republican politicians have done, while preaching homosexuality is bad and against their religion.
If a liberal Democrat is homosexual, he demands equality such as gay marriage, and that gays be treated as people instead of infidels to the bible.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he continues to deny reality and call for lower taxes to the top 2% of the nation who don't need it, voodoo economics, and discuss things like gay marriage and abortion instead of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. The real issues.
A liberal Democrat wonders how he's going to get out of this predicament and tries to raise money to do it like taxing the rich, the people who have the money.


The two party system is the problem not the solution and one isn't much better than the other. We need an independent to come in and clean things up. Except for foreign affairs. Thats controlled by the military industrial complex.

But I didn't agree with the post and you said you were all ears.


all the best,
Jacob
Mod Edit : Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

reply to post by whatukno


heres another experiment for everyone else who isnt a conservative

go into a store select a bunch of items and then when you go to pay for it and you fork over the cash someone else takes your items and leaves you with nothing.

only its not an experiment that is what social security is

reply to post by whatukno


The argument by many conservatives is not just to cut these programmes out, but also cut down taxes to a flat rate, so that money you paid towards medicare Whatukno would be cut down and refunded to you in the form of taxes anyway. But I agree, it is a silly move to cut social security and medicare and leave the folks at the complete mercy of big businesses (as if things in the healthcare industry were not bad enough).

But republicans won't do it. Reagan came in and left the welfare system with 1000's more dependent on it. Bush Jnr tried to privatize medicare but health insurers were not willing to take on the millions of americans uninsured and Bush was smart enough not to take the step of eliminating the programme anyway. Bush snr? Came in as one of the staunch Reaganites, his policies were very libertarian when he ran on his first campaign in 88', so what happened? He wound up increasing taxes and lost to another socialist from arkansas who was a strong campaigner for socialized healthcare.

So whats the point? The libertarian ideology is a joke, it is a fantasy that politicians like to throw around and use during their campaigns until they get into office. It is an unworkable system, hence why the rest of the western world has universal systems in place to protect folks. Social security and medicare ain't going anywhere buddy, not until we face another world war atleast.

Now I would certainly like to see tea party states like Texas and Alabama actually bar medicare, medicaid and social security, and I'd like to see folks like Governor Perry refuse federal money in protect to this "socialist" regime. I'd really like to see them do that, I'm sick of tea party secessionist threads bluffing their way on these forums. Walk the talk.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Clinton was NOT a socialist.

He was a Centrist Democrat.

God, get it right people.

Deny Ignorance.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Clinton was NOT a socialist.

He was a Centrist Democrat.

I am well aware Clinton is not a socialist. I use the term in a sarcastic manner as conservatives will throw the communist and socialist label at almost anybody who isn't right of the politicalsphere.

reply to post by DeepThoughtCriminal


So you believe that the government can do for you better than you can do for your self.

you are unable to take the money you make and save it or use it wisely to have it when you need it.

it is managed much better by those in charge?.

Mis management seams to be ok to many as long as they get what they want.

As for the OP's statement .

I am a conservative and do believe that SS and medicare are for the Elderly, sick and infirmed.

Yet it like most things has been destroyed by liberal spending habits. Pay for everything, take care of everybody. Socialize.