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The esoteric is still exoteric!

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posted on Apr, 16 2011 @ 11:48 PM
reply to post by Rhebefree

I sent you a U2U message, may it find you well.

posted on Apr, 22 2011 @ 05:12 PM
I havent had internet access lately
but I finally got some credit, and I wanted to thank everyone for their contribution, I started off simply speculating on whether all our philosophies were being used or manipulated, I didnt expect the thread to become a spiritual and mental journey in itself!!
Everything people have posted has given me a lot of things to think about so I am gratefull to you all.
Hope everyone has a brilliant Easter!

posted on Apr, 24 2011 @ 11:15 PM
reply to post by Rhebefree

LOL, I don't think any of us saw it going in that direction. On a side note, I don't watch television, mine has not been plugged in for two years. Now, on occassion, I will be visiting someone or someone at my house will watch it. This weekend on (I think it was the History Channel) television there was a show about the gnostic gosiples. Well worth watching. It talked about how the gnostic gospels (Judas Escariot, Mary Magdeline...) were written hundreds of years later and were nor real; however, it then goes on to say how different (presumably positively) the world would be if they had been accepted. This hasn't changed in 2,000 years and is one of the things I have against the gnostics, they try and trick their way in to the Christian church.

The conversation on this thread by those supporting gnostic principles I have no problem with. I do have a problem with saying that it is in agreement with christianity because it is not. They are not saying anything new, have been disproven too many to count (those who seek to infilitrate christianity) and continue to do the same things.

posted on Apr, 25 2011 @ 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Rhebefree
I'm hardly going to go out of y way to try find out your real name and lodge and whatnot, that would be inappropriate and very creepy

Not what I meant. If the international banking elite are Masons, it is their records I expect someone to go after.

I never thought of it that way.... Even so if it werent for his ravings I would never had learned about the monetary system and how it works and 9/11 (even tho Im not American) and other various conspiracies so I gotta give him credit for what he does

I would classify 9/11 conspiracy theories as among these red herrings.

Yeah but atleast they, like me, have the building blocks to jump start further research

I rarely see that happening, though. Anyone who does do an unbiased job researching his inane rants comes away so disillusioned with the entire thing that they're worse off than before when it comes to effecting change.

Are you a supervisor guy? Or is that classified info?

Fine. I'll concede the theoretical possibility that there might be an organizational link. Once again, however, could and might are meaningless in the sense you'd have to use them in this instance.

enlighten me, go on you know you want to!

One of the site's favorite sources on Freemasonry is Bill Schnoebelen, and it takes the Taxil hoax for literal truth. Google those two.


Officially, yes.'s complicated.

Yes but which money men? See I thought masons were the money men!!

They have no allegiance but to themselves, and to each other only as necessary.

Yea but hardly anything remains true to its original gender based definitions anymore, guys can be stay at home mums

Actually, this one example has been terrible for society.

Fraternities should get with the times man, broaden their horizens, "evolve" ideas or whatever

Except for platitudes like this, I've never seen anyone give an actual benefit of changing the way things are. Single-sex social gatherings have taken place since the dawn of man, in nearly every culture. I don't think we evolved that way just because.

Not neccesarily, we could surprise you

I grew up on a farm, and I know exactly how clueless people really are about farming.

besides with big daddy corp. out of the way

The corporations do terrible things. They're also responsible for the people on the planet not living on arable land (the majority) not starving to death.

earth could heal and go back to its natural rythms and humanity would be free to revert back to their roots..... Sigh, please dont burst my bubble, its all I have left!!

I don't want to burst it, just shrink it a little. There's plenty of room for reform, particularly in food. If we regulated our food markets consistently and without special interests clogging up the works, we could feed another five billion people on the yield we're getting now, and make pretty good dents in poverty too.

Oh so you do accept low income workers too?

Ideally, yes. Masonic culture varies from country to country; in America it's largely the lower middle class (or at least was traditionally) with a few upper-class outliers. In countries more recently separated from the Crown and in Continental Europe, the dynamic swings a little more heavy-pocketed.

I dont know subliminal messages? Spell casting? I dont know, use your imagination!!

Our Junior Warden makes pretty good cookies...

? I think your missing some words there, but I see what you are saying,

It was a joke. Efficiency is not something Masons are known for.

but dont you have pre-reqs?

Yes, but they're more to do with character traits, which we try to verify with objectively traits (belief in a Supreme Being, no felonies, etc.) and personal interviews with a committee.

Well if you had lots of money and resources


and wanted to bring about a "forced" evolution and a new world where only men who believed in service to a "god" could run the show

Actually, America seems to have come to that opinion more and more as our influence has dwindled.

true I guess, I tend to prefer the absurd and forget sometimes that most people dont share this leaning

I have the opposite problem: I far too often see my perceptions as far more than just that.

possibly why I like this site so much, theres more people like me here than in my reality

I like that too.

Not the tendancy to form groups, throwing money at a problem that is caused by money or rather the pursuit of it

I see your point here. Masonic charities, like all charities, have no immunity to abuses of the public trust inherent in them. However, it's the least bad option.

When? When have we been free to live in this way, properly

There's the rub. Human nature always won.

I cannot think of a time when western society wasnt obsessed with the accumilation of wealth

Eastern society hasn't fared much better.

Fast cars, grocery stores, air conditioning?

I live in Florida. You shut your mouth about air conditioning.

Not to mention disease, pollution

Both previously present (although pollution wasn't the mega-behemoth it is today).

mutated food that leads to all kinds of imbalances within the human and ecological systems and on and on and on.....

Here's another red herring. Genetically-modified food is dangerous in its politics, not its science.

Scuse me but I think its time for the dreamers to emerge, the idealists, the non-joiners, those who fantasise about a world where every humans potential is free to take root and grow uninhibited by colour or rank or gender or social obligation, to rise up and stop allowing "reality" to shape this world, Realists have had their turn. Its our turn now.

The problem is that dreamers and realists look on each other with enmity. A favorite dreamer of mine put it this way about realists:

We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. --George Orwell

You'll have to forgive his bellicosity; he saw a lot of war, and his dreams were often of the cautionary sort. Still, though, it kind of illustrates my point: neither pure ambition nor pure realism can run the world. To put it in Masonic terms, you need architects: men who both understand how to keep a building up and that it needs adornment.

"I see the strongest and the smartest men who have ever lived,".... "and these men are pumping gas and waiting tables"

The first thing you learn when studying fine arts (and I did) is the myth in this statement. The best artists I met in my years in college (I studied screenwriting) also turned out to be the most successful in the "real world" because the real common denominator in both was focus and drive.

"You have a class of young strong men and women, and they want to give their lives to something. Advertising has these people chasing cars and clothes they dont need. Generations have been working in jobs they hate, just so they can buy what they really dont need"

I'm a proud member of the Less Revolution, as I call it. Just being happy with what you have and only buying what you need would get us off the roller coaster financially; it all starts when people want more than that.

posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 12:17 AM
reply to post by OnTheLevel213

Dear OnTheLevel213,

I really enjoyed reading your response. A nice mix of humor and reason. I have studied the masons and other similiar organizations for years. Most people outside of these organizations knew next to nothing. With the spread of information via the internet people became aware of the fact that their are organizations that have attempted at times to manipulate the outcome of history and certain Masons have done that as I am sure you would agree. Every organization has rogue units when it grows sufficiently big.

While I disagree with "secret societies" and fraternities as a rule, I don't believe, nor do I think there is evidence, supporting the assertion that they are evil or of bad intent. I do not believe the Masons would have ever grown as much as they did if their central message was evil. That would have come out long ago. Having said that, organizations that are not open about their beliefs tend to make people unsure. The first question people ask themselves is "What are these people really up to". When they discover what SOME of them have done, they become aware of what the organization is capable of.

One of my best friens is a Mason and he knows what I believe about these types of organizations where you are in or you are not a member and how they favor one another. They do in fact give preferances to members even in business, the construction industry is a good example. It seems slightly unfair and that is why I also do not agree with fraternities. Not all fraternities are like the Skull and Bones; but, they all believe in helping each other first rather than making decisions based on merit regarding non-members.

This thread has certainly revealed some things that people may have been unaware of. It has for me. I believe that people have a right to free association and to privacy; therefore, I would never support outlawing these types of organizations. I also support fully prosecuting any members of any group that misuse these rights unlawfully. There organizations cannot be used to mask crimes and I believe most Masons would agree with me. What I fear of Wikileaks and the explosion of information is that we may see a requirement that they be tranparent with their books and I think that would be a worse thing.

I guess what I am trying to say is that even though I am not in favor of such groups, I do believe in their right to exist and keep a degree of privacy to their communications. I disagree with gnosticism; but, I believe people are entitled to their beliefs, I don't know how anyone could be expected to agree with everyone or every belief. I hope you see this as supportive, be well.

By the way, I like the line from Shakespeare, one of my favorites, that and "the game is afoot".
edit on 26-4-2011 by AQuestion because: Compliment

posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 12:28 AM
I read all the books and topics/subjects that the OP has listed ....

It all has its time and place. Its cool and interesting for a little while then life goes on.....

But the One thing I found that you can easily be a window shopper to Esoteric knowledge. You pass by, you read it, you conceptualize your ideas about it, then move on......

However there are few souls who actually use all their own will power to pierce the viel. Those that do, find the driect experience of God and have no need for divisions such as race, gender, classes, types......

There is truly an esoteric experiential core to all this "book" stuff. Having glimpsed it myself ......all this long form reading about this and that really doesnt matter anymore to eyes which have glimpsed Infinity....

Give me the direct experience of the Absolute Truth anyday over merely reading about it

posted on Apr, 26 2011 @ 12:50 AM
reply to post by dominicus

Dear dominicus,

There are certainly many instances of those who have had profoundly moving spiritual experiences; but, they do not all leed to God. I am perplexed by the concept that we can force God to talk to us, that would be a pretty weak God. While there are those who either through '___' or yoga or other actions have been able to apparently interact with spirits or aliens or alternate realities or whatever, they might just try and fool you and you would have no way of knowing. Is their sentience beyond us, I believe the answer is yes. Can sentience cease, I believe the answer is no, like energy it can neither be created nor destroyed, because sentience does exist there can be no absolute zero and we can know absolutely that sentience exists.

If I become aware of things from others and did not figure it out on my own then there must be other sentient beings. If we on earth lie to one another then there is the distinct possibility that other sentient beings would lie to us in the "spirit realm". I believe that everytime someone communicated with God, it was he that started the conversation, that is not true for demons in the same way, we just have to be willing to communicate with spirits. I neither doubt your experience (don't know you) nor do I condemn your attempts, I merely say question the results and don't pressume that what people hear from spirits is the truth because of the intensity of the experience. Be well.

posted on May, 27 2011 @ 11:58 PM
After a long time away from my thread, with much more research and soul searching I have come to the conclusion that there is indeed a shadow group that has an (evil) gnostic inspired agenda and that it will be coming into fruition very soon. They are being guided by something.... Dark and entirely twisted.... If I can be sure of anything anymore it is this..... The question is what to do about it

posted on May, 28 2011 @ 06:59 AM

After a long time away from my thread, with much more research and soul searching I have come to the conclusion that there is indeed a shadow group that has an (evil) gnostic inspired agenda and that it will be coming into fruition very soon. They are being guided by something.... Dark and entirely twisted....

Everything is twisted, us included, is how we function, inverted, your body you left is your left your right is your right but it gets inverted at the top where your mind is in mirror image.

The bottom part of the spectrum when you are looking up and down. If anyone would fall would fall into matter, it's why it's called the fall, it's also represented by the woman in my opinion, the phisical as the end part of the lower endings, the flat line marked by the color red, the reciver ,"the car with the antena" where the other side is the standing line, the higher end of the spectrum, the transmiter" the remote control" We are in hell or near it, the so called Aquarius age that we are entering is suppose to take us out of this. It's about reciving from the higher end "The creator" but we often recive from other lower parts that are still upper than us and can manipulate, we are misguided.

This is not very accurate but it will have to do.

This image is in acordance with the tree of knowlege/life more or less.

We are on the low part of the spectrum, the red part, actually below the red part into the dark , this image is not very good but it shows something, as you go towards the end it becomes a flat line, go to the other end and vibrations are higher, to the higher end in stead of a flat line you got a standing line" as in tall"

This notion would be very good, a snake can be long, but can't be considered tall because it can never stand up, it never will, a human can stand tall after it has been lying down, to lie down is a lie, and not the truth.


Going too far and calling everything evil, like some do, material nature is a beauty, but "mother nature" can also be harsh without any explenation, also the nature of crime and killings, blood spill, corruption, lies and so on has to do with the phisical aspect , but not all of it is evil.

We are under the influence of the lower endings for now, it's about to change soon weather they like it or not.

posted on May, 28 2011 @ 08:23 PM
reply to post by Rhebefree

i agree, they are being spoon fed certain conspiracies and hidden truths right now. this is never a good thing and history will prove it to be only another part of the system of control.

the truth is within

posted on May, 29 2011 @ 08:23 AM

history will prove it to be only another part of the system of control.

the truth is within

I so agree with you, the truth will get out.

posted on May, 29 2011 @ 09:23 AM

Originally posted by indigothefish
reply to post by Rhebefree

i agree, they are being spoon fed certain conspiracies and hidden truths right now. this is never a good thing and history will prove it to be only another part of the system of control.

the truth is within

must be a horrible thing to be guided by your fear.

The truth IS within. That's what we've been trying to tell you all along. And who controls what is within?


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