The esoteric is still exoteric!

reply to post by AQuestion


Yes, that made sense. And that is true, even though being apart from our S oul Mate can be very painful, that it can also provide an opportunity for growth.

On the other hand, it is sometimes better to decide to enter (a) mere karmic sexual relationship(s) related to the lesser evil of Nahemah as to learn from our mistakes, rather than ending up as victims of Lilith (the latter existing as the bigger evil).

And all of us have, myself included, to some degree gone through the tortuous, teeth-gnashing pain which results from the karma of Lilith and/or Nahemah.

Fortunately, bachelors can alleviate said pain by transmuting their libido/sexual force with things like Pranayama, Meditation, and Spiritual/Classical Music (especially Pranayama).

When it comes to deciding between Transmutation, Nahemah, or Lilith; Transmutation for bachelors being the best decision, until we find our Spouse.

Although of course everyone is free to make their own decisions. I'm just writing here in terms of Esoterism.

Originally posted by Tamahu

reply to post by AQuestion

 

On the other hand, it is sometimes better to decide to enter (a) mere karmic sexual relationship(s) related to the lesser evil of Nahemah as to learn from our mistakes, rather than ending up as victims of Lilith (the latter existing as the bigger evil).

And all of us have, myself included, gone through the tortuous, teeth-gnashing pain which results from the karma of Lilith and/or Nahemah.

Fortunately, bachelors can alleviate said pain by transmuting their libido/sexual force with things like Pranayama, Meditation, and Spiritual/Classical Music (especially Pranayama).

When it comes to deciding between Transmutation, Nahemah, or Lilith; Transmutation for bachelors being the best decision, until we find our Spouse.

Although of course everyone is free to make their own decisions. I'm just writing here in terms of Esoterism.

edit on 10-4-2011 by Tamahu because: added text

I believe in soul mates, sounds funny coming from a guy who lost his wife because of her infidelity. I have felt love, real love and it is quite nice. It only comes when you care completely for another; but, will do what is best for all and you both agree on that. It starts with admiration for inner being and then everything else follows, as it must. It is very rare in this world and I don't know why.

I think, my opinion, that we all meet the person we could be the soul mate of; but, you cannot stay with them until you are both ready. This is getting strangely on and off topic. I have some difficulty with the terms you use because I don't know them all; but, I think transmutation in the form of chastity is what you are referring to. Redirecting ones sexual urges in positive ways while looking for your soul mate. I do hope I understand. If I do then I would agree and have done so myself (although I was greatly tempted a few times). People who know me will ask my why I don't take advantage of my opportunities and I explain, I don't want to sleep with the wrong one again, it was too painful. If I know they are not the one, how can I?

In order to pass time, I write my blog (not a plug and not listed here) and do research for it. I much prefer the peace of writing to the anxiety of dating one not the one. I apologize for using me as an example, it is the one I know. Paul said that he thought chastity was best; but, that if one could not help themselves then they should marry. I think Paul was off a tad on this one, not the solution, the reason. Paul was concerned about controlling one's urges, I don't think that applies to a soul mate.

I am enjoying this discussion because it seems to be showing how close Christianity is to gnosticism and what the differences are. Thank you. As for Paul, he was still a man. Not everything he said was as a prophet, he prophesized but was not a profit. A profit only says what God tells him and is never wrong. Paul was an apostle and did not claim to be in constant contact with God or Jesus. I am not saying he was wrong, I am saying his logic may have not always been spot on.

Have a great night, my daughter is here. Be well.

reply to post by AQuestion


I did not intend to post again here tonight. My daughter that just got out of the hospital attended her mother's graduation tonight. As I said she was feeling better although she is very tired now. She saw her grandfather at the event and he told her to tell me that he wished me the best. It doesn't sound like much; but, I cut him off from our family ten years ago because of his wife (his new wife was nasty to his first wife's children).

He knew I had been done wrong, he understood failed marriages and the pain of killing them, of the miscarriage of things that are not to be. He is dying, it began after the separation of my ex-wife and I. I have not spoken to him since long before then. I only know he is dying because my daughter told me so a few months back. As men we understand that not every woman is our soul mate; but, we love as men and missing the mark hurts. A western description of an eastern philosophy I hope.

reply to post by Tamahu


I do not have time to go through all your links tonight but will read them tomorrow so that I can respond properly. I thank you for your contribution to my thread, even though I do not understand everything you say and link, it has given me a lot to chew over.
I will say this though, and if you have already covered it through your links or other posts then I apologize but some things take time for me to understand;
I dont get Karma
I dont get the concept of lucifer and god and satan
I dont get how sex can be considered enlightenment if matter is supossed to have been created by an evil god/satan
I dont get why we "have" to evolve
I dont understand esoterics "evolution"
I dont get the concept of god becoming god or us becoming god or how hell(s) fits into the whole karma thing
I dont get why religions, both inner and outer, have demonised nature (matter)

Essentially what does "Gnosis" boil down to? Because I dont understand any of it! (Maybe Im just not "evolved enough huh? Not correctly spiritualized yet?)

Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by Rhebefree
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Thankyou I will give it a squiz
I do think there is an occult agenda but I think its much more than that too, when you read all the quotes about the supposed ascension and awakening thats coming, the theme is always the same, it always talks about the spirit ascending, not the body, the spirit... sort of like the rapture that christians believe in but its not physical.... I dont know but the whole thing freaks me out!

I don't want to get too off track; but, the math thing is really simple. If I exist (or you exist) then the universe must exist is some format. Zero assumes that nothing can exist, that nothingness is a possibility. If I exist then zero (nothingness) cannot be a true answer to the universe. This is the starting point for the gnostics in a way. They end up promoting the belief that either we are god or that we become god and one. The idea is that in the end there is only one consciousness or self awareness. The "ascension" is their belief that we will become aware of this. I see it differently, I do not believe we become one, we retain our self identity if we choose to define ourselves by our beliefs rather than chasing cookies.

There is a great difference between rapture and ascension. Rapture does not return us to a non-place or oneness. We reunite with others who have chosen to be themselves in heaven. People who have had near death experiences often describe this reuniting. Assume, for the moment, that on this earth you get to make that choice. In order to make your true choice you have to be challenged. Many people tell me how they would fight for this or that and then when confronted they fold like paper cups.

A good example of choice is presented in Revelations. It says that in the great tribulation people will be given the choice of taking a mark, if they do not take it they will not be able to buy or sell. I am using this as an example and it does not require that one believe in the bible to understand the choice. There are many, even on this site, that do not believe in Revelations but do believe we are going to be required to have a chip in us in order to buy and sell (personally I don't see the chip as a "mark" but I still wouldn't take one). Would people accept such a chip, fact is many support it already and some have even taken the chips voluntarily. I have heard Christians say they wouldn't have a choice but to take the chip in order to feed their family.

The goal of gnosticism and all "occult" is pleasure. The goal of Christianity is to know God, not become him. The mystery religions are all about learning how we can control the world and become gods. To understand their beliefs a read of the Rosicrucian training manuals is very helpful. All the mystery schools work the same, you have to prove yourself "worthy" to learn more. We are all one but if they are good little slaves and followers then we get to be with the really cool kids. It is elitist. Be well.

I hope your daughter comes through her ordeal ok, I have family members and a good friend who has been through it, and I cannot imagine the pain... My best wishes


Spiritually I understand zero in terms of something God, well what I recognised as God then but am re-evaluating it all now (I dont know what I have had a "relationship" with all these years, everything I'm learning about the occult is throwing me for a spinner), once said to me;
"You misunderstand what I mean by Nothing (zero), it is the abscence of emptiness, the un-ending nameless, formless no thing- Nothing. It is,yet it is not. Just as I am part of you yet you are seperate from me"
Even though I am nolonger sure about the source of the information, it makes sense to me so I'll run with it for now!
Its hard because my gut tells me that this (voice?) is the God who has always loved me, who has always been there for me in my time of need, yet how can this God I love be the same God of those I believe to be, well quite frankly evil (That is TPTB, not everyday people, like me who are simply trying to understand whats true).....
I really dont know what to believe anymore, theres a verse in the new testament that talks about how a person filled with doubt is like a ship on the sea, ever thrashing this way and that, well I think that sums me up perfectly!

I enjoyed reading your posts, and I agree with most of what you are saying; "Neither up nor down but ever onwards" (another "word" from God), however I dont understand how much of what you say adds up with Christianity (you did say you are a Christian right? Or am I getting confuddled again? )

Anyho, thankyou for your input.

Originally posted by Rhebefree

Then what do you think we should be doing to get outve the mess we are in? If TPTB arent TPTB, then who do you think is in charge? Or do you think no-one is, that there is no conspiracy anywhere?

I certainly think the powers that be exist. They're just not really secretive about it; the only reason they're "in the shadows" is because no one reads campaign finance disclosures.

Why were masons so secretive until recently

Recently? The monitor I told you about dates to 1860.

Isnt the pope a mason?

I'm having a hard time not asking you if that's a serious question. Since I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt: no, not in the least. In fact, he went out of his way while with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to reaffirm the Church's anti-Masonic stance.

What I meant is that there is so much info out there, evidence it is said, that Christian isnt even Christian

This would be over the head of most Masons, whose theological opinions are square with every other churchgoer.

Except the way in which it is taught differs from how we are taught

But the content has not changed. There's nothing that magically turns you into a NWO zombie or whatever.

So we are told

You don't mind being told the opposite view.

Hey, very good! However we all contain the building blocks of commonsense and intuition, even if our enviroment shapes it somewhat, deep down its still there pure and unviolated and eager to have a say

I disagree somewhat, but I'm out of my depth if we start going into psychology.

Yes pack mentality, hive mind and all that

Hardly. People just tend to work better together.

Ok I'll bite, how about TPTB decide who are going to be your "leaders" and you all get to vote on one of them, which is exactly what they want!

Occam's Razor. Are the Grand Officers elected because they seem the most competent in their lodge service, or do the powers that be visit every lodge in every state looking for toadies for their nebulous agenda?

Yes, ok but that still doesnt take away from my point that people in secret societies could be tools for TPTB just as much as people who are simply just religous (regardless of whether you are taught to perceive things in an esoteric light or not)

Could is a pretty far-reaching word. It could be that one of us is having a conversation with Watson the Jeopardy! robot.

Yes and we will never believe you! You want to know why? Because you are part of the system!!!

Then you'd have very little reason to complain about us "clamming up" even if it were true.

Why? Isnt it a social climbing "betterment" group?(according to you)

We don't discuss politics or religion in lodge, and the rule usually extends to business as well. You'd think one of those three things would have to come up if you were planning on ruling the world.

His?

God has traditionally been defined as male. Though God transcends gender, it's kind of an automatic thing for me.

That I find interesting, are you taught that each mans god is the same god? The architect of the universe?

Once again, we're not taught anything about the nature of God or comparative religion.

I know atheists who are interested in religion, I'd imagine they could learn a lot in masonry if you are all encouraged to follow your different gods

They might "learn a lot", but at some point, their involvement would become at best cloying and at worst mocking. We don't want, "Okay, well, I don't believe any of this but I'm going to do my best to look like this is meaningful."

Masonry tells you that men are superior to his institutions fine but not to god, you must still serve god whoever he may be

That is the first genuinely Masonic lesson you've touched upon.

Of course I am! This is a conspiracy website! There are more loons than me running about than masons like you, so get used to it!!

My problem with this is that most conspiracy theorists claim a monopoly on critical thinking, and can be very condescending toward people who don't share their worldview. When that worldview is built on cherry-picking evidence and ignoring contradiction, their attitudes are nothing short of hypocritical.

Yes, many groups share that same rhetoric, yet little seems to change despite our myriad of groups and organisations and religions and philosophies, that only allow certain people, all devoted to the "betterment" of mankind. We dont need organisations, we need to get some guts!

"Never doubt the ability of individuals acting alone to change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that never has, so it has to be due, right?" Not Margaret Mead

True but many dont, even Ive been guilty of it every now and then, although I dont think Im any less intelligent for it just a bit too gung ho maybe)

It happens to the best of us, but it's hardly the author's fault that his mistakes are repeated as truth because someone else accepted his word as gospel, and it's hardly Masonry's fault that its members did what it told them not to.

If you dont think that masonry is a part of said boat, or if you even doubt that the boat even exists, then obviously we will never agree

Oh, the boat definitely exists. It just doesn't need Freemasonry; we're no good to them. All this ciritical thinking talk and prizing tradition doesn't get people to buy the latest, chase the newest, etc.

Oh and by the way, the Illuminati do exist

This is a position in contradiction of established history. I checked your links; none of them accurately describe the Illuminati that did exist, and the only believable reference to their "survival" is a knockoff group using the same name to preach completely different values.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by Rhebefree

Then what do you think we should be doing to get outve the mess we are in? If TPTB arent TPTB, then who do you think is in charge? Or do you think no-one is, that there is no conspiracy anywhere?

I certainly think the powers that be exist. They're just not really secretive about it; the only reason they're "in the shadows" is because no one reads campaign finance disclosures.

(So TPTB are bankers and politicians and whatnots? Arent many of them mason members? I really shouldnt be talking to you you know, your throwing my whole upper masons are TPTB minions out with the bath water and leaving me feeling a tad ridiculous!! Stop it!!)

Why were masons so secretive until recently

Recently? The monitor I told you about dates to 1860.

(I meant recent in terms of HISTORY, didnt I say that? Im certain I did..... )

Isnt the pope a mason?

I'm having a hard time not asking you if that's a serious question. Since I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt: no, not in the least. In fact, he went out of his way while with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to reaffirm the Church's anti-Masonic stance.

(It was a serious question, when I first discovered that there was an evil plot involving a shadow group it was through Alex Jones, and when I googled him to find out more about him it came up with that whole Bohemian Grove shindig, and I read that many prominent bankers, politicians, corporation leaders, and the POPE were there, and that they were all involved with masonry, so thats why I asked; Isnt the pope a mason? I know that when it started up the catholic church raged a war against them, among others, but times have changed I would not be surprised at all to learn that the Pope is in cahoots with the big wigs...... But I am starting to allow for the fact that masons may not be plotting to rule the world, that the fact that many people (mainly men I might add) who have shaped the world we live in today were either masons, members of a secret society or involved in some form of religion or another, is a coincidence, rather than a criterior...... As for the anti-masonic stance, when did our leaders, including our religous ones, start being honest with us? Because I forgot the memo)

What I meant is that there is so much info out there, evidence it is said, that Christian isnt even Christian

This would be over the head of most Masons, whose theological opinions are square with every other churchgoer.

(I find that really interesting, werent masons persecuted by the church when they first started up? And Im starting to think that its not masons throwing out propoganda anyway...... Sigh, back to the drawing boards!)

Except the way in which it is taught differs from how we are taught

But the content has not changed. There's nothing that magically turns you into a NWO zombie or whatever.

(Thats good, zombies are freaky)

So we are told

You don't mind being told the opposite view.

(Thats true, dam truth does hurt! In all honesty, the conversations in this thread have really made me question everything I thought I had decided, and now I'm back to "there is a group of evil dudes who want to dictate the future of humanity for their own benefit" but who are they? My first guess would be the bloodline families, so I need to find out if any of them are involved with masonry, if they are then you guys are back on the drawing boards!)

Hey, very good! However we all contain the building blocks of commonsense and intuition, even if our enviroment shapes it somewhat, deep down its still there pure and unviolated and eager to have a say

I disagree somewhat, but I'm out of my depth if we start going into psychology.

(Ok)

Yes pack mentality, hive mind and all that

Hardly. People just tend to work better together.

(Thats true, but it depends on what your working towards and why, you talk about a universal league of MEN for the benefit of man, was this the concept that brought the original masons together or has it just evolved to that, you know the way to remove suffering, atleast outward suffering, from the world is to the average conspiracy loon simple, remove the cause of suffering. If the third world is suffering because their water is being poisened by chemical dumps ingto their water supplies, just for one example, and those chemical dumps lead a poisenous trail back to mega corporations who dont give a bleep about any of us, all they bleeping care about is their bleeping bank accounts, then logically instead of running to our bibles and joining groups and praying or waiting for some fairy tale "christ" to come and save us and punish the sinners and all that jazz, we should be targetting the coporations and their owners, chasing them down the streets and lynching them... Instead, we join our groups we chase our religions, we pray for change, even make donations and go on missions to build orphanages and whatnot (dont get me wrong, donating to charity and helping communities is a good thing, but it does not end suffering does it) and nothing of consequence, on a global scale, gets done! If masons, and there are plenty of them, really are just trying to make the world a better place then why are they so silent about global issues? Why dont we see them in the news valiantly taking down TPTB? The same could be asked of the vatican and the world church organisations, the fact is that money makes this society go round so naturally those with the most should be setting an example for those who have only what they can afford from week to week, but they dont, they are silent, consequently those who want to be like them (because money speaks louder than commonsense) are silent also, and nothing of consequence gets done)

Ok I'll bite, how about TPTB decide who are going to be your "leaders" and you all get to vote on one of them, which is exactly what they want!

Occam's Razor. Are the Grand Officers elected because they seem the most competent in their lodge service, or do the powers that be visit every lodge in every state looking for toadies for their nebulous agenda?

(

the latter of course!)

Yes, ok but that still doesnt take away from my point that people in secret societies could be tools for TPTB just as much as people who are simply just religous (regardless of whether you are taught to perceive things in an esoteric light or not)

Could is a pretty far-reaching word. It could be that one of us is having a conversation with Watson the Jeopardy! robot.

(Yes could is a far-reaching word I should have said, "are probably", and who says one of us isnt Watson the jeopardy robot? I have never seen this program by the way, is it good?)

Yes and we will never believe you! You want to know why? Because you are part of the system!!!

Then you'd have very little reason to complain about us "clamming up" even if it were true.

(Ok ok, and I guess if I were completely honest with myself then I would have to admit that I too am part of the system, being a mother with no monetary or property assets, I dont see anyway I can provide for my child in this society without paying taxes (having a job sux) or being dependant on government handouts (this society sux)

Why? Isnt it a social climbing "betterment" group?(according to you)

We don't discuss politics or religion in lodge, and the rule usually extends to business as well. You'd think one of those three things would have to come up if you were planning on ruling the world.

(Not if masonry was just a front, a way to keep good men in line while you did the real dirty behind closed doors)

His?

God has traditionally been defined as male. Though God transcends gender, it's kind of an automatic thing for me.

That I find interesting, are you taught that each mans god is the same god? The architect of the universe?

Once again, we're not taught anything about the nature of God or comparative religion.

(so the whole architect of the universe concept did not originate with masons?)

I know atheists who are interested in religion, I'd imagine they could learn a lot in masonry if you are all encouraged to follow your different gods

They might "learn a lot", but at some point, their involvement would become at best cloying and at worst mocking. We don't want, "Okay, well, I don't believe any of this but I'm going to do my best to look like this is meaningful."

(but you said you are not taught, or disscuss, god stuff.... So whats the problem??)

Masonry tells you that men are superior to his institutions fine but not to god, you must still serve god whoever he may be

That is the first genuinely Masonic lesson you've touched upon.

(But I thought there are no lessons about God??)

Of course I am! This is a conspiracy website! There are more loons than me running about than masons like you, so get used to it!!

My problem with this is that most conspiracy theorists claim a monopoly on critical thinking, and can be very condescending toward people who don't share their worldview. When that worldview is built on cherry-picking evidence and ignoring contradiction, their attitudes are nothing short of hypocritical.

(I hope I havnt been condescending, I hate it when people do that to me, I havent have I? Its hard trying to get to the truth of things when there is so much "evidence" out there, whats that term? Hidden in plain sight? How can we be expected to not "cherry pick" even the religous do this with their own books, even scientists do this, which is why I think we need to stop reading everybody elses scriptures and start writing our own and start getting active in the world around us, rather than waiting for some far off day when we will finally be "enlightened" or "ready" or whatever other bull#### excuse we give ourselves for not taking action and digging at the root of suffering in this world)

Yes, many groups share that same rhetoric, yet little seems to change despite our myriad of groups and organisations and religions and philosophies, that only allow certain people, all devoted to the "betterment" of mankind. We dont need organisations, we need to get some guts!

"Never doubt the ability of individuals acting alone to change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that never has, so it has to be due, right?" Not Margaret Mead

(Yes, I see your point, we are all too gutless to stand alone against the tide, but what if we could stand together without being led? Without giving up our individuality for the hive? What if each of us could forge ahead, together without being together for the betterment of humanity, not in some future generation, but for the benefit of humanity in the here and now?)

True but many dont, even Ive been guilty of it every now and then, although I dont think Im any less intelligent for it just a bit too gung ho maybe)

It happens to the best of us, but it's hardly the author's fault that his mistakes are repeated as truth because someone else accepted his word as gospel, and it's hardly Masonry's fault that its members did what it told them not to.

(If the author is touting it as truth then yeah he does have some accountability, esspecially when there are people out there seeking the truth who only have limited resources and may not understand that some things may have been written to be read by only certain people or as a joke or as a distraction....... You see its these games that certain members of certain societies play that really make me angry!!! So these authors were told not to write their books?)

If you dont think that masonry is a part of said boat, or if you even doubt that the boat even exists, then obviously we will never agree

Oh, the boat definitely exists. It just doesn't need Freemasonry; we're no good to them. All this ciritical thinking talk and prizing tradition doesn't get people to buy the latest, chase the newest, etc.

(Fair enough)

Oh and by the way, the Illuminati do exist

This is a position in contradiction of established history. I checked your links; none of them accurately describe the Illuminati that did exist, and the only believable reference to their "survival" is a knockoff group using the same name to preach completely different values.

edit on 11-4-2011 by OnTheLevel213 because: fixed some spelling

( I was joking when I said that, I linked that "Illuminati website because it has some interesting information on it, but I dont take their claims that they are an actual group working behind the scenes all that seriously, although I do allow for the possibility, some things on it make me raise an eyebrow)

Wow, responding to your replies always takes ages! And reminds me why I never took to debating in school!!
Im just trying to make sense of it all, thats all any of us can do these days I guess;
work, pay taxes, donate some money here and there, try to figure things out without looking too deeply and never mind the billions of (insert example of ultimate suffering here) because its not your fault, all your required to do is work spend and to ease your consience by joining a religion or "social betterment" group. And this my new mason buddy, is why nothing of consequence gets done.
Gads Im depressed now! Think I'll go play with my daughter, she always knows how to make me smile!
Seeya, look forward to your next response

Originally posted by illuminazislayer
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4342064c39eb.jpg[/atsimg]
It is all in the symbolism....

edit on 8-4-2011 by illuminazislayer because: (no reason given)

This is absolutely 100% INCORRECT!

Clearly offered up by a judgmental non-initiate who has no idea what they are talking about. My guess is that you found this "explanation" online and it was created by another individual who has no idea what they are talking about. One reason why you should be careful of what you find on the internet. It's full of misinformation!

To the OP, think of it like this.... The mysteries and gnosis have many flavors and streams of understanding. Just like Christianity. You have Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Assembly of God, etc.. Many different flavors who each interpret their belief systems slightly different from the others. Gnosticism, Rosicrucianism, and the mysteries are much the same. There are many different groups who each interpret the wisdom in different ways. For the most part, you cannot isolate individual pieces of texts from one belief system and apply it to other, if similar, systems which you appear to be trying to do.

If you are trying to apply a general philosophy, I would suggest the following:

Most of these philosophies interpret a singular Divine creator from which everything else has emanated and been created. The philosophies all agree that there are "masters" who understand and exemplify an evolution meant to initiate a spiritual transmutation. The purpose of life is this spiritual transmutation.

Outside of this very general ideation, each of the flavors of philosophy will argue over details of how & why these things happen. This is what separates their ideology.

Hope that helps you in your quest for understanding.

Peace profound.

G.

reply to post by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

All of them has this absurd notion that humanity can't think of it's well being on it's own, so we should teach them our version of morality and impose our agendas on them.

Actually, Freemasonry doesn't have that notion at all.

Your other mason friend disagreed with you.

So, while my post was a sarcastic response, it was also an honest example of why people are dead wrong when they criticize organizations like Freemasonry, or religions. Those are powerful organizations in keeping people civil toward one another, and helping to keep order in our society. Link.

Without Freemasonry or religions world will plunge into chaos.

reply to post by CIAGypsy

The philosophies all agree that there are "masters" who understand and exemplify an evolution meant to initiate a spiritual transmutation. The purpose of life is this spiritual transmutation.

This is absolutely 100% INCORRECT!
No spiritual transmutation / evolution / ascension will ever happen, this dis-info is what religious cultists are spreading.

You Are Already Complete

evolvingbeings.com...

In the letting go of control and fear and every other thing that we’re holding onto, we come into the fullness of the moment. This is spiritual finding. No meditation, mindful movement class, retreat, yoga intensive, or whatever can give this to you. You could find it there, and maybe you did find an amazing moment like it in one of these activities. But you already have this awakening in you. So you can have it at 3am feeding a crying baby. You can have it getting yelled at by your boss at work. You can have it waiting for the train. You can have it sitting in rush hour traffic.Your spiritual awakening and your ability to find Truth is always in you 24-7.

Of course, when you come to this realization, your whole life changes…again. You may indeed go do “spiritual” things, but now, it’s because of choice. You no longer think that you’ll find something. You are doing it because it’s what you choose to do. This is a very powerful place.

You also will be able to see the spirituality in all things. In these moments, the arbitrary definition of such-and-such is spiritual and such-and-such is not spiritual will be revealed for the true absurdity it is. Because you’ll feel how interconnected everything is. You’ll feel the Truth and Beauty in all things.

For the dejected spiritual seeker, it may be hard to read some of these words. You’ve probably spent a lot of time and money in trying to achieve a spiritual experience. But the gift of the present moment is that you can always awaken right now.

Originally posted by illuminazislayer

You Are Already Complete

evolvingbeings.com...

In the letting go of control and fear and every other thing that we’re holding onto, we come into the fullness of the moment. This is spiritual finding. No meditation, mindful movement class, retreat, yoga intensive, or whatever can give this to you. You could find it there, and maybe you did find an amazing moment like it in one of these activities. But you already have this awakening in you. So you can have it at 3am feeding a crying baby. You can have it getting yelled at by your boss at work. You can have it waiting for the train. You can have it sitting in rush hour traffic.Your spiritual awakening and your ability to find Truth is always in you 24-7.

Of course, when you come to this realization, your whole life changes…again. You may indeed go do “spiritual” things, but now, it’s because of choice. You no longer think that you’ll find something. You are doing it because it’s what you choose to do. This is a very powerful place.

You also will be able to see the spirituality in all things. In these moments, the arbitrary definition of such-and-such is spiritual and such-and-such is not spiritual will be revealed for the true absurdity it is. Because you’ll feel how interconnected everything is. You’ll feel the Truth and Beauty in all things.

For the dejected spiritual seeker, it may be hard to read some of these words. You’ve probably spent a lot of time and money in trying to achieve a spiritual experience. But the gift of the present moment is that you can always awaken right now.

edit on 12-4-2011 by illuminazislayer because: No Gods (religious, masonic etc.) = No Masters = Total Freedom.

"Complete" is a relative term. Ironically, what you've posted in your off-site content is exactly what gnostics, rosicrucians, and hermeticists have been trying to teach for millenia. THIS:

.Your spiritual awakening and your ability to find Truth is always in you 24-7.

Is exactly correct. Not exactly sure why you think the "secret societies" who follow these philosophies are teaching anything other than this undeniable seed of truth. Oh...maybe its because you aren't an initiate and don't know WHAT they do or teach, you only assume???

When you go through your spiritual awakening, you are initiated into the mysteries of truth and wisdom. The only thing the Adepts & teachers of these philosophies actually DO to help you get there is to break down the dogma you've likely been fed your whole life to accept the quoted statement above. Everything that happens internally for you to accept the truth of your spiritual nature must happen through your own awareness. NO ONE...not any Adept, Group, or "bloodline" can do this for you. This "Great Work" is a process, but you already hold all the tools for your ascension.

Think of it this way.... No individual or person taught Christ or Buddha the knowledge and wisdom that made them masters. It was knowledge that came from within.

Originally posted by Rhebefree

Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by Rhebefree
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Spiritually I understand zero in terms of something God, well what I recognised as God then but am re-evaluating it all now (I dont know what I have had a "relationship" with all these years, everything I'm learning about the occult is throwing me for a spinner), once said to me;
"You misunderstand what I mean by Nothing (zero), it is the abscence of emptiness, the un-ending nameless, formless no thing- Nothing. It is,yet it is not. Just as I am part of you yet you are seperate from me"
Even though I am nolonger sure about the source of the information, it makes sense to me so I'll run with it for now!
Its hard because my gut tells me that this (voice?) is the God who has always loved me, who has always been there for me in my time of need, yet how can this God I love be the same God of those I believe to be, well quite frankly evil (That is TPTB, not everyday people, like me who are simply trying to understand whats true).....
I really dont know what to believe anymore, theres a verse in the new testament that talks about how a person filled with doubt is like a ship on the sea, ever thrashing this way and that, well I think that sums me up perfectly!

I enjoyed reading your posts, and I agree with most of what you are saying; "Neither up nor down but ever onwards" (another "word" from God), however I dont understand how much of what you say adds up with Christianity (you did say you are a Christian right? Or am I getting confuddled again?

)

Anyho, thankyou for your input.

Dear Rhebefree,

Thank you for your good wishes for my daughter, she is improving. Had to see a doctor last night and again today. The ex is a nurse and is helping her.

We must all go through periods of doubt so that we can determine what we believe and who we wish to be. It is okay to flounder a bit. I would like to start with the occult and then turn to "God" or "Christianity". Gnosticism and/or the occult is very old and has many schools. I have read many of their things from different schools; but, I don't see a need for the detail at this time. In the end they believe that the one we think of as God, the creator is evil and that another god (given many different names) is our friend and wants to help us grow and therefore brought us knowledge. The best of the gnostics are not evil people and believe we should all live better, other schools of this tend to be very self centered and it is all about personal spirtiual growth rather than all of us helping each other move forward. This is a gross oversimplification but sufficient for the moment I hope.

My discussion of zero is a philisophical reality check. If we exist there can be no absolute zero, existance cannot be denied. If a scientific term is better than know that energy can neither be created nor destoryed (that is Einstien). You know you experience this existance that is the beginning of understanding, understanding self. Do not be overly concerned about not understanding everything, Revelations says that in the last days even the elect would be deceived if that were possible, that means few will understand the truth.

The bible says that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. That is a fascinating statement. What was the word, it was God and what did God say his name was, I Am. Get it, I exist, I am a sentient being that can use words to organize myself, my thoughts and create this world. If we are not all sentience then God is, we are merely a part, a creation of Gods, individual sentient beings. That is the God you know, the God of Christianity, the creator. Think about what the bible says about Jesus, he did not think that being God was a thing to be sought and so he poured himself out and lived on this earth (sorry cannot remember the verse and chapter).

The question becomes very simple, it is a free will choice, to have relationship with God or to become God, the God of Christianity wants relationship with us; but, throughout history people seek to avoid a direct relationship with him because they feel guilty for not being perfect. They seek to attain the relationship by becoming perfect, that is the gnostic approach to rise and become worthy. We never become worthy we attain the relationship through grace if our intent is from the heart.

The garden of Eden is where man first sinned; but, what was the nature of the sin and why did Satan want us to sin. The sin was the loss of innocence. The children known as Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong so they could not sin, they also could not choose who they wanted to be. The bible says that someday humans will be over the angels. Think of Satan as the spoiled older child who is jealous of the younger child and wants all of the parents attention for himself. The knowledge of good and evil allows us to make decisions that define us, free will cannot exist very much in a child because they have no informed consent.

Because we must learn we must be challenged and the challenge must be very real to us that is the essence of this life. That this life can be annoying and hard is fact; but, after there is just relationship with God and other who choose to be in a relationship which can continually be better as we explore the possibilities. We can only reach up so high, to meet God he must reach down and breach the blinders that let us experience this life as real and limited in time.

People get upset with God because they want someone to give them the answers rather than have to work for it. That is why most people are sheep, they want shortcuts rather than to truly grow, they want someone to tell them the answers. Gnosticism in all its forms is about shortcuts, someone tells you the answer and "guides" you through understanding that is why I called it elitist (not an insult a recognition). Lucifer, to many gnostic schools, tells us the answers if we earn the right to know by our actions rather than by our heart.

To anyone who is Christian and has doubts or confusion I always give the same answer, work on faith and loving one another and the rest just comes naturally. The heart of God is love no matter what the name, if you have a heart of love then service to others is a natural byproduct, actions follow belief rather than belief coming from actions. It says we are to have the mind of Christ, that is one of love and sacrifice. Love is a choice, forgiveness is a choice and it is about all of us rather than being focused on ourselves.

Many people seek what they call "spiritual growth"; but, what does that really mean? For most it means knowing the truth, a short cut. This world was created for a reason and we should deal with it before we worry about the spirit world and loving one another is not something we do for a cookie (salvation) it is what we choose because it defines who we want to be, because we believe caring about one another is more important than what we get, if we truly have that in our heart then we have the mind of Christ.

Focus on love and love is the God you will know. When we only care about ourselves, eventually it is all we have. If you love God then the bible says you will be challenged even more, that is so that we can grow to the extent possible for us at this time, hopefully enough that we can be with God and remain ourselves.

Hope that made some sense, be well.

Originally posted by CIAGypsy
To the OP, think of it like this.... The mysteries and gnosis have many flavors and streams of understanding. Just like Christianity. You have Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Assembly of God, etc.. Many different flavors who each interpret their belief systems slightly different from the others. Gnosticism, Rosicrucianism, and the mysteries are much the same. There are many different groups who each interpret the wisdom in different ways. For the most part, you cannot isolate individual pieces of texts from one belief system and apply it to other, if similar, systems which you appear to be trying to do.

If you are trying to apply a general philosophy, I would suggest the following:

Most of these philosophies interpret a singular Divine creator from which everything else has emanated and been created. The philosophies all agree that there are "masters" who understand and exemplify an evolution meant to initiate a spiritual transmutation. The purpose of life is this spiritual transmutation.

Outside of this very general ideation, each of the flavors of philosophy will argue over details of how & why these things happen. This is what separates their ideology.

Hope that helps you in your quest for understanding.

Peace profound.

G.

Thankyou for your contribution, since posting this thread I have learned a lot, and the response from others here has been invaluable, that said I still dont understand why people believe the point to life is spiritual transmutation (Changing form, do you mean changing physical form or changing your spirits form?), what if the point is not to go up or down but on? What if we all have eternal life already and God just wants us to live the best eternal life we can live? Why must we complicate things?
I understand (now) that there are a vast array of occult "schools" and branches of "schools" just like in religion, what I dont understand why we feel we need them. If we have 24hr access to truth already within us, why do we need anybody else to "guide" us to those truths, or the truth that we already have truth.... You see what Im saying? If we were to raise our children with the knowledge that God loves us and that God has placed truth within us all, in order to make our own way in life, then they would have no need for religion would they? Infact they would never feel the need for anyone or anything to guide them to higher truths because they would understand that they already have the highest truth....... Everybody deserves to know the straight up truth without having to pay for it or scrambling around trying to attain some standard of perfection that would deem them "worthy" of receiving it, we are able to access some of these occult books now but only some people have the patience to sift through them, what about the average joe just trying to pay his taxes and provide for his family? Where does he find his truth when he does not have time to ponder his navel and his church tells him his relationship with God is dependant on how many rules he can follow??
And as soon I have figured things out, I am going to shout it from the rooftops! And I am going to tell everybody that they dont need "masters" to find the truth of things, only themselves, intuition, a smattering of love and commonsense, and what could possibly be a higher truth than this?

Dear Rhebefree,

Thank you for your good wishes for my daughter, she is improving. Had to see a doctor last night and again today. The ex is a nurse and is helping her.

We must all go through periods of doubt so that we can determine what we believe and who we wish to be. It is okay to flounder a bit. I would like to start with the occult and then turn to "God" or "Christianity". Gnosticism and/or the occult is very old and has many schools. I have read many of their things from different schools; but, I don't see a need for the detail at this time. In the end they believe that the one we think of as God, the creator is evil and that another god (given many different names) is our friend and wants to help us grow and therefore brought us knowledge. The best of the gnostics are not evil people and believe we should all live better, other schools of this tend to be very self centered and it is all about personal spirtiual growth rather than all of us helping each other move forward. This is a gross oversimplification but sufficient for the moment I hope.

My discussion of zero is a philisophical reality check. If we exist there can be no absolute zero, existance cannot be denied. If a scientific term is better than know that energy can neither be created nor destoryed (that is Einstien). You know you experience this existance that is the beginning of understanding, understanding self. Do not be overly concerned about not understanding everything, Revelations says that in the last days even the elect would be deceived if that were possible, that means few will understand the truth.

The bible says that in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. That is a fascinating statement. What was the word, it was God and what did God say his name was, I Am. Get it, I exist, I am a sentient being that can use words to organize myself, my thoughts and create this world. If we are not all sentience then God is, we are merely a part, a creation of Gods, individual sentient beings. That is the God you know, the God of Christianity, the creator. Think about what the bible says about Jesus, he did not think that being God was a thing to be sought and so he poured himself out and lived on this earth (sorry cannot remember the verse and chapter).

The question becomes very simple, it is a free will choice, to have relationship with God or to become God, the God of Christianity wants relationship with us; but, throughout history people seek to avoid a direct relationship with him because they feel guilty for not being perfect. They seek to attain the relationship by becoming perfect, that is the gnostic approach to rise and become worthy. We never become worthy we attain the relationship through grace if our intent is from the heart.

The garden of Eden is where man first sinned; but, what was the nature of the sin and why did Satan want us to sin. The sin was the loss of innocence. The children known as Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong so they could not sin, they also could not choose who they wanted to be. The bible says that someday humans will be over the angels. Think of Satan as the spoiled older child who is jealous of the younger child and wants all of the parents attention for himself. The knowledge of good and evil allows us to make decisions that define us, free will cannot exist very much in a child because they have no informed consent.

Because we must learn we must be challenged and the challenge must be very real to us that is the essence of this life. That this life can be annoying and hard is fact; but, after there is just relationship with God and other who choose to be in a relationship which can continually be better as we explore the possibilities. We can only reach up so high, to meet God he must reach down and breach the blinders that let us experience this life as real and limited in time.

People get upset with God because they want someone to give them the answers rather than have to work for it. That is why most people are sheep, they want shortcuts rather than to truly grow, they want someone to tell them the answers. Gnosticism in all its forms is about shortcuts, someone tells you the answer and "guides" you through understanding that is why I called it elitist (not an insult a recognition). Lucifer, to many gnostic schools, tells us the answers if we earn the right to know by our actions rather than by our heart.

To anyone who is Christian and has doubts or confusion I always give the same answer, work on faith and loving one another and the rest just comes naturally. The heart of God is love no matter what the name, if you have a heart of love then service to others is a natural byproduct, actions follow belief rather than belief coming from actions. It says we are to have the mind of Christ, that is one of love and sacrifice. Love is a choice, forgiveness is a choice and it is about all of us rather than being focused on ourselves.

Many people seek what they call "spiritual growth"; but, what does that really mean? For most it means knowing the truth, a short cut. This world was created for a reason and we should deal with it before we worry about the spirit world and loving one another is not something we do for a cookie (salvation) it is what we choose because it defines who we want to be, because we believe caring about one another is more important than what we get, if we truly have that in our heart then we have the mind of Christ.

Focus on love and love is the God you will know. When we only care about ourselves, eventually it is all we have. If you love God then the bible says you will be challenged even more, that is so that we can grow to the extent possible for us at this time, hopefully enough that we can be with God and remain ourselves.

Hope that made some sense, be well.

Thankyou for this post, the only thing holding me back from communing with "God" lately has been the fact that I really dont want to be played for a fool you know? Having a relationship with the creator is one thing, having a relationship with something posing as the creator is quite another! There is a movie I once watched..... 'The fourth kind' which followed the story of a psychologist who was investigating some strange occurances with her patients, it all had to do with what she thought were aliens, but anyway she would stay up late researching and her tape recorder would be running recording her thoughts, later she would go thraough the tapes and a voice not hers would be heard speaking in a foreign language, towards the end there was a scene where she tried to contact the aliens (through hypnosis) and something took over her body and started saying stuff through her, anyway long story short, the voice was saying stuff like "My creation to destroy" "I am God" "I the son, the father" and stuff along those lines. I dont know if the movie was true (they showed footage apparently from the true happenings) but it reinforced my growing suspision that their is a force out there posing as a God that wants us to worship it, that works through phenomena we refer to as UFO's and is spiritual or inter-dimensional in nature. I dont want to have a relationship with THAT!
I enjoy reading your posts, I found your interpretation of I AM interesting, have you heard of the Mechanical Translation of the Hebrew Bible? www.mechanical-translation.org... Its really interesting, you should check it out anyway they translate the word Ehyeh (a name for the most high I assume) as "I exist", so I got a kick out of reading "it was God and what did God say his name was, I Am. Get it, I exist"
I agree that most people want a shortcut, that can be said of most things in life not just spirituality we are a generation of convinience seekers, and perhaps that is why Adam and Eve took a bite of that apple; they wanted a fast track to wisdom (your interpretation of the garden of eden thing is interesting, if they didnt know right from wrong why were they punished?), but I still think that part of the problem is that we are conditioned by TPTB not to understand the truth when it comes knocking. I mean Im genuinely hungering after somethiing real but whats real anymore when we have all these religions and groups both esoteric and exoteric pulling the average reader this way and that way and encouraging people to veiw others as wrong or un-evolved or un-worthy or worse damned? If God has been watching me grow and attempting to interact with me all these years, how would I know, now that I have knowledge of other things whether he/she/it is the creator or something else? All I have to go on is intuition, and if all thats required to make a choice on what voice you will commune with then is intuition, what need do we have of institutionalised religion? For sure what if the word of God really is in us and the authority to interpret it does not fall to any clergy but to ourselves?
When I was a Christian I learned of a man (cant remember his name) who retreated into what he termed his prayer closet, he did not eat, he emerged after a time changed, healed and apparently able to heal others, at the time an elder of my church and my mentor at the time, told me not to take it too seriously, that his methods were dangerous. Well I think thats what I need to do, dangerous or not, retreat into a "Prayer closet" and seek the voice of truth, because if truth connot be found within my own heart, or if the creator would punish us with a seperation of "his" presence without giving us the means to re-connect directly, without the intervention of men and women who dont seem to understand that you dont need tithes and offerings or even converts in order to spread the message of "Love thy brother and sister", then this is a god I do not want to know about.
Also, have you ever wondered why there is such a focus in many of these religions on souls? "Winning" souls for the kingdom, "ascending" the spirit to meld with "God", attaining "Perfection" for the uplifting of the soul, and all that stuff.... Arent aliens said to come from the sky?
Lastly, I dont think the goal is to grow in order to be with God, I'd like to think that life is more about movement and the extending of life, about walking alongside the creator in order to keep creating and living and enjoying, I dont think life was ever meant to be complicated, but somewhere along the way we started listening to the wrong voice..........
Anyway, thankyou again, your insight has been very helpfull
Your daughter has a long road ahead of her but with a father like you I am sure she will come through just fine
(I know I only know of you what you have posted, but you come across as a very good and caring person which is why I assume you are also a very good and caring father )

reply to post by Rhebefree

Originally posted by Rhebefree
I dont know if the movie was true (they showed footage apparently from the true happenings) but it reinforced my growing suspision that their is a force out there posing as a God that wants us to worship it, that works through phenomena we refer to as UFO's and is spiritual or inter-dimensional in nature. I don't want to have a relationship with THAT!

Neither do I want to become a slave of inter-dimensional malevolent beings posing as our gods. But the people worshiping them in secret society lodges are deciding what is good for humanity. Satan, Lucifer, demons, jinns ET's etc. are the different names given to the same inter-dimensional beings, and the ruling elites are completely subservient to them. who is the "master" in the secret societies... watch the following video to know that.

Originally posted by Rhebefree

So TPTB are bankers and politicians and whatnots?

Yes.

Arent many of them mason members?

Probably not (I certainly haven't seen any Masons who were bank presidents, and I live in Jacksonville, more or less the banking capital of Florida).

I really shouldnt be talking to you you know, your throwing my whole upper masons are TPTB minions out with the bath water

It's times like these I wish I had a Fu Manchu to twist devilishly as I whispered "Good...good..."

I meant recent in terms of HISTORY, didnt I say that? Im certain I did.....

There hasn't really been any secrecy in the speculative days; I believe Masonic Light has an expose dated to 1717. In the operative days, Masons were secretive because genuine secrets of architecture were held, and having them in public hands would mean the end of their ability to earn a decent wage.

It was a serious question, when I first discovered that there was an evil plot involving a shadow group it was through Alex Jones

Your first mistake.

and when I googled him to find out more about him it came up with that whole Bohemian Grove shindig, and I read that many prominent bankers, politicians, corporation leaders, and the POPE were there

I'm willing to be wrong, but I'm pretty sure no Pope has ever been to the Grove.

and that they were all involved with masonry

Untrue.

I know that when it started up the catholic church raged a war against them

Not necessarily true. There have been harmonious times between the Catholic Church and Freemasonry, before it became organized and speculative, and thus a threat to the Church's theological monopoly.

but times have changed I would not be surprised at all to learn that the Pope is in cahoots with the big wigs......

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm starting to believe that the Pope is a figurehead in actual Vatican administration. It doesn't make sense to me that a bunch of career theologians and ministers are suddenly promoted to head of state with very little actual training.

As for the anti-masonic stance, when did our leaders, including our religous ones, start being honest with us? Because I forgot the memo

True, but that's not a license to be dishonest about them (which you haven't been, I concede).

I find that really interesting, werent masons persecuted by the church when they first started up?

By the Catholic Church, yes, but the average Mason is Protestant for obvious reasons.

Thats true, but it depends on what your working towards and why, you talk about a universal league of MEN for the benefit of man, was this the concept that brought the original masons together or has it just evolved to that

A little of both, honestly.

If masons, and there are plenty of them, really are just trying to make the world a better place then why are they so silent about global issues? Why dont we see them in the news valiantly taking down TPTB?

Freemasonry has no way of implementing such a thing, and because "changing the world" in such a manner is far more complicated than you imagine here.

The same could be asked of the vatican and the world church organisations, the fact is that money makes this society go round so naturally those with the most should be setting an example for those who have only what they can afford from week to week

You mean, say, donating $2 million a day?

Yes could is a far-reaching word I should have said, "are probably"

Explain how.

Not if masonry was just a front, a way to keep good men in line while you did the real dirty behind closed doors

How would such a "front" operate? Why use Freemasonry and not the million things that are more popular and profitable?

so the whole architect of the universe concept did not originate with masons?

Actually, the origins of the term are Christian.

but you said you are not taught, or disscuss, god stuff.... So whats the problem??

I told you the extent of the involvement of God in Masonry. That's still too far for the honest participation of an atheist.

But I thought there are no lessons about God??

I think we're in disagreement as to what constitutes a lesson about God. I don't think "serve God" constitutes a lesson.

I hope I havnt been condescending, I hate it when people do that to me, I havent have I?

No, you're pretty innocent of it. My remark was toward the average opinion of the conspiracy theorist.

Its hard trying to get to the truth of things when there is so much "evidence" out there, whats that term? Hidden in plain sight? How can we be expected to not "cherry pick"

Look around here for a while and tell me what the opinion of the general public is.

Yes, I see your point, we are all too gutless to stand alone against the tide, but what if we could stand together without being led? Without giving up our individuality for the hive? What if each of us could forge ahead, together without being together for the betterment of humanity, not in some future generation, but for the benefit of humanity in the here and now?

I don't see the point in waiting for humanity to fundamentally change itself instead of using our social urges for the better.

If the author is touting it as truth then yeah he does have some accountability

I never meant to imply otherwise. But when a person slaps, "hey, don't take everything here at face value" in the preface to a book, you can't really hold them accountable for when people do it (if, again, they are at all).

esspecially when there are people out there seeking the truth who only have limited resources and may not understand that some things may have been written to be read by only certain people or as a joke or as a distraction....... You see its these games that certain members of certain societies play that really make me angry!!!

Once again, you describe something that isn't Masonry.

So these authors were told not to write their books?

Who in the world would tell them that?

Wow, responding to your replies always takes ages! And reminds me why I never took to debating in school!!

So does typing them. That's why I'm not particularly active.

Im just trying to make sense of it all, thats all any of us can do these days I guess;
work, pay taxes, donate some money here and there, try to figure things out without looking too deeply and never mind the billions of (insert example of ultimate suffering here) because its not your fault, all your required to do is work spend and to ease your consience by joining a religion or "social betterment" group. And this my new mason buddy, is why nothing of consequence gets done.

I'll leave you to tell that to the millions of people helped by Masonic charities.

Originally posted by illuminazislayer

Your other mason friend disagreed with you.

Wait, then you said:

you can take control of your mind and your soul.

Well, are we mind-controlled NWO slaves or aren't we? If we can come up with two fundamentally different answers to the same question, your mind control theories don't appear to hold much water.

Originally posted by Rhebefree
Thankyou for your contribution, since posting this thread I have learned a lot, and the response from others here has been invaluable, that said I still dont understand why people believe the point to life is spiritual transmutation (Changing form, do you mean changing physical form or changing your spirits form?), what if the point is not to go up or down but on? What if we all have eternal life already and God just wants us to live the best eternal life we can live? Why must we complicate things?

Your question here is the essence of ANY review or acceptance of spiritual belief.

Whether you are speaking about world religions or the "mysteries," most followers agree that humanity is not in its perfect divine state and an "evolution" of the soul (or body/mind, depending on the philosophy) must take place. The reasons for the "necessity" of this evolution differ depending on which school of thought you follow. If it is the Christian view, they argue that, due to original sin, man is tarnished and must live a life of x,y,z to attain absolution from that sin and ascend into heaven. If you are a gnostic, it means that man is the material "contamination" (for lack of a better simplified word) of the divine and we must elevate our vibration to ascend to higher divine frequencies. Along these same lines, Kabbalists believe that man was created through an involution of thought by a divine creator which is, in essence "the fall of man," and that through a process of thought evolution, man shall ascend back to "oneness" with the creator.

Of course, with all of these simplified explanations, there are a lot of details and varied explanations as to the "why" and "how." Again, they differ based upon ideology. But they all share the same basis that humanity is in an imperfect state in some fashion and must undergo a transformation to get back to a perfect state. There is nothing special about Gnosticism/Rosicrucianism/Hermeticism/Kabbalah/Buddhism versus mainstream religion in this fashion.

Originally posted by Rhebefree
I understand (now) that there are a vast array of occult "schools" and branches of "schools" just like in religion, what I dont understand why we feel we need them.

Don't confuse spirituality with religion. They are two different things. Spirituality beliefs are the process you under go internally to come to an understanding of your immaterial self. Religion is a dogma that states you must adhere to a specific set of behavioral, political, and spiritual beliefs in order to "go somewhere."

Originally posted by Rhebefree
If we have 24hr access to truth already within us, why do we need anybody else to "guide" us to those truths, or the truth that we already have truth.... You see what Im saying?

Technically, you don't. But look at it this way, how long would it take you to break down a mathematical proof for a Calculus related problem if you have never been taught basic mathematics? Or worse, if someone taught you "basic math" but only a particular ...or even improper....way?

The teachers who help to "guide you" through the mysteries are just that...only guides. It is you...the initiate....who must do the heavy lifing and internal work to understand, make relevance of, and reach enlightment of the wisdom you receive. God talks to people in different ways. Even the Bible says so. Jesus spoke in parables to the masses because he knew they were not at a level where they could understand in terms like he spoke to his disciples. Ultimately, they are bound for the same destination....but they may tread separate paths to reach that destination.

Originally posted by Rhebefree
Everybody deserves to know the straight up truth without having to pay for it or scrambling around trying to attain some standard of perfection that would deem them "worthy" of receiving it,

There are two comments I'd like to make to this statement:

1. The most value comes from things you work for. This is the same with the wisdom you receive. Jesus stated "cast not your pearls before swine." This means that if the group or individual you are trying to enlighten is not psychologically, mentally, or spiritually ready for the message, then no amount of effort on your part is going to matter and it is a wasted effort. It is through personal work that an individual makes themselves open and ready to receive wisdom. This leads to the statement "when the student is ready, the teacher shall appear." Call it divine providence. When you are ready (psychologically, mentally, and spiritually) to receive wisdom from our maker, He will put a mechanism in your path, be it a person or experience, from which you will learn what is necessary.

2. Remember too that man is fallable. We are far from perfect beings. There are those who corrupt wisdom by trying to profit off of it. This happens in every religion....not just the "mysteries."

Originally posted by Rhebefree
And as soon I have figured things out, I am going to shout it from the rooftops! And I am going to tell everybody that they dont need "masters" to find the truth of things, only themselves, intuition, a smattering of love and commonsense, and what could possibly be a higher truth than this?

You are welcome to do whatever you wish. No one would certainly try to stop you. Why do you think all of this information is freely available on the internet?? However, please see Statement #1 above. You can try all you like, but if your audience is not in the right place within their spiritual evolution, your words may be fruitless.

reply to post by CIAGypsy


I don't really have anything to add to this, except to say it's one of the best posts I've read here in quite a while.

This process is an incredible evolutionary elap.