Originally posted by Rhebefree
It was my assumption that all Masons regardless of what God they start off with, are encouraged if not required to read, and learn, this stuff as they
progress through the different levels, is this assumption wrong?
Masons are, of course, encouraged to learn whatever they can. In terms of this material, however, they are not required nor particularly encouraged.
It has no place in Masonic ritual and does not feature in discussion within the lodge.
I read about occult authors who were masons or who have influenced secret societies and I try to read their books and their saying stuff like;
"When mortals shall have become sufficiently spiritualised, there will be no more need of forcing them into a correct comprehension of ancient
Wisdom" and;
"To make the point clear once for all: that which the clergy of every dogmatic religion — pre-eminently the Christian — points out as Satan, the
enemy of God, is in reality, the highest divine Spirit" and; "symbols and rituals are merely blinds fabricated by the wise to perpetuate ideas
incomprehensible to the average individual. He also realized that few Masons of today know or appreciate the mystic meaning concealed within these
rituals."
These are not Masonic concepts in the least; if a Mason said them, he is voicing his opinion. Most Masons are themselves Christian, as Masonry is
largely a western phenomenon.
And if Masonry does not have the different degrees and initiations that we are given to understand it does have what is meant by these authors
in reference to degrees and initiation.... Understanding? So a "higher" degree denotes a higher level of understanding the mysteries?
In the blue lodge, a higher degree denotes passing an oral exam on whether you remember the previous degree. Outside of the blue lodge, a "higher"
degree denotes membership in a certain organization. No degree higher than the 3rd means anything within the main body of Freemasonry.
If so understanding comes from learning and doing, if what you understand pertains to knowledge someone else has given you then you are only
wise in the regards of that knowledge they have given you, so they not you are shaping your wisdom......
The same can be said about any path. The sum of your influences is a pretty good indicator of your knowledge.
So what makes them a "Grand officer"?
The same thing that makes anyone an officer in any organization: an election to a term as such.
Ok? Well what if these lessons that are theistic in nature are meant to sufficiently spiritualize you according to how they would have you
spiritualised?
Then they would actually try to influence my spirituality, rather than tell me to practice my religion and study for myself.
Only because many people claim that TPTB, which many people believe are involved with the formation of and the running of secret societies, are
just using religions (the exoteric) and keeping things from the religous, I was simply attempting to explore the possibility that they were commiting
the same act against members of secret societies and that the reasons for doing so look like they reflect the things said in the book 'the secret
doctrine'
Many people do claim this. Few actually propose a model of how this control occurs. So far, none I've seen have avoided serious factual errors
revelaing the cart-before-horse nature of their "research".
I did not know this, but the fact still remains that something is going on that is Gnostic in nature, that doesnt sit right with me
1) Not necessarily.
2) Why doesn't it?
I dont understand this remark
Freemasonry is not a united international organization, but a number of state/national organizations (Grand Lodges) relying on mutual recognition.
Some Grand Lodges have taken the position that women and atheists can be made Masons, including his.
Hence why I said "another form", I could say its a cult but I dont want to offend anyone since that word has an even more negative
connotation to it than religion
How do you define it as a religion or a cult, though? You can say anything you want if you ignore the definition of the word.
Ok, but could it be using Freemasonry?
I can't for th elife of me find an efficient way to use Freemasonry as an implement of control of anything. You'd be better off using nearly
anything else.
I am neither religous nor mason and am seeing things from the outside looking in. If I am wrong then I am wrong, however if you are wrong then
you are being manipulated.
Really? Ok, so if I understand correctly, Freemasonry is more like a life skills/self help social group??
That's a way of putting it. How to actually define Freemasonry is something Masons have struggled with since the Craft's inception. If you don't
mind a little puffery, here's a definition I'm fond of:
Masonry is the activity of closely united men who, employing symbolical forms borrowed principally from the mason's trade and from architecture,
work for the welfare of mankind, striving morally to ennoble themselves and others, and thereby to bring about a universal league of mankind, which
they aspire to exhibit even now on a small scale.
So what makes Masonry different from any religion?
Religions have clergy. Religions have theology as regards the nature of God. Religions have specific texts they consider sacred. Religions have plans
of salvation. Masonry has none of these.
Why cant anyone who wants to learn and grow and improve their avenues to provide for charity (although I dont know what you mean by this dont
charities have websites and phone numbers and campaigns?)
Yes, and they do fantastic work; I donate to them as much if not more than Masonic charitable activities. With Masonic charities, though, the process
of involving oneself is easier.
Why do they have to believe in a God? Arent their plenty of Atheists who are good men?
Absolutely. But they and Masonry would have nothing to gain from each other.
Ok but if your being taught that these authors are wise and their books are to be read with the anticipation of gaining wisdom
We're not "taught" that at all. There's no Masonic required reading; I actually only have read the Pike that I have because I wanted to know what
it was the anti-Masons were going on about. Actually, it was from fellow Masons that I found out where Pike was wrong, or going on assumptions since
disproved.
then you are going to take it at face value that what is contained within is true?
When does anyone do this?
Or are these books lessons in discernment? Is that what seperates an initiated mason from an un-initiated mason, or the average reader, being
able to discern what is truth in these dusty old books to what is fairy tale?
It's what separates the intelligent reader from the others. That said, it's not "truth" and "fairy tale", it's a matter of interpretation.
Everything in Masonic ritual is an allegory, or "fairy tale" if you wish.
Fair enough, although until you are able to convince me otherwise, the whole thing seems dodgy.... If
there are changes afoot, cyclical or forced, I doubt it has much to do with "ascension", more likely its to do with one grop of people Lording it
over us through history and making sure we dont survive such a change while they do! 
Their was a time when their were no religions and no gods (Jesus, Allah, Krishna) etc. or
beliefs in a supreme being whom people worshiped or prayed to for their well-being. In those times their were several tribes all across the globe,
those tribal people contrary to some beliefs, were well civilized with good spiritual understanding. 
