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posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Samael Aun Weor wrote that the Rosicrucians are no longer active in the physical world under that name. And that they are not merely "just another secret society", as the Rosicrucians are said to be Resurrected Masters. Here is a Gnostic glossary entry that explains the Rosicrucian Order.

And no I'm not a Freemason belonging to any physical "regular" lodge. And even though Samael Aun Weor did not forbid his students from joining physical Masonic lodges, he did point out that the contemporary physical institutions of Freemasonry are currently overall devolving.

Manly P. Hall (see The Hermetic Marriage, MELCHIZEDEK AND THE MYSTERY OF FIRE, and Occult Anatomy of Man) and Samael Aun Weor both wrote that the only ones who definitely will survive the destruction of the Aryan Root Race, are those who will be capable of Raising the Kundalini.



Originally posted by Rhebefree
Search for truth yes, allow your interpretation of truth to be guided by institutions that require something of you in return for higher truths?? I dont think so, thats dodgy.



Concerns for the World

"Nevertheless, the wisdom of the creative Demiurge of the universe is magnificent. It is not irrelevant to emphatically tell you that transformation is only possible by means of sacrifice. I.e. if we did not sacrifice the coal in the steam engine, we would not have the steam-power to move the train. Similarly, we will say that by means of a great sacrifice, the transformation of the world will also be possible." – Samael Aun Weor



Types of Spiritual Schools

Gnostic Groups and the Mind

Seeking the Master: Teachers and Students


edit on 6-4-2011 by Tamahu because: added text


So it is Rosicrucians who are behind the whole "awakening" thing not masons? You guys run the show? Or are simply trying to get the show to run on par with your beliefs....
Just out of curiosity why do you think we have to sacrifice some races in order to evolve others?
Whats the Kundalini?
Your beliefs scare me
edit on 6-4-2011 by Rhebefree because: A spelling error that I noticed




posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Some of the answers to your questions are found within the many links and quotes that I've posted in this thread and in the forums here in general.

And I've said nothing about "sacrificing some races". I was originally responding to your question about the Universal institution of the White Lodge hierarchies' "requiring something of us in return for higher truths". The quote that I replied with, is simply saying that if we want to attain anything of value; we have to work hard for it and make some sacrifice in order to attain it.

The mentioned coming destruction is in regard to the Aryan Root-Race's reaping of what it has sown (karma).

Nevertheless, the Gnostic teachings state that we can pay our karma consciously, here and now (as opposed to mechanically within the Klipothic hell realms of the Second Death), before the said destruction of the Aryan Root-Race takes place, by working with:



The Three Factors of the Revolution of the Consciousness


(By the way, I'm not a Rosicrucian, if that is what you were implying by "you guys"; because as was already mentioned, the real Rosicrucian Order is said to consist of Christified Masters only)

edit on 6-4-2011 by Tamahu because: punctuation



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Tamahu
 


Right sorry for misunderstanding and jumping the gun, I also went and researched Kundalini on ATS after posting my reply and learned a little about it. I find it interesting that the Egyptians, during the mummification process scooped out the brains, If the Pineal gland is no longer active upon death or if our concioussness leaves upon death, I wonder why it was important to them to discard the brain before preserving the bodies??
Anyho, so your saying that their are a group of people (beings?) who became Christ-like and are doing their work from.... Behind a veil, in a manner of speaking....?
Are these people the super manu discussed in the book 'the secret doctrine'?
Why do we need to awaken the kundalini?
Why do we have bad karma from (the fifth cycle? Or was it the fourth?)?
Why do we need a super manu/group of Christs to guide us? Surely we can figure it out ourselves if we stop letting others dictate to us what "it" is??
And finally, what if earth is heaven, what if matter is wholly Divine and perfect, What if matter was created not to trap our spirit or teach us a lesson but as a gift, Life for Lifes sake, what if we dont need to "evolve" but simply need to take responsibility for our choices in the here and now???
I have no problem with people believing that we need to evolve, what I have a problem with is the fact that their may be those, seen or un-seen, who may be trying to force evolution on us, have you considered that maybe these Rosicrucians or whoever, who attained "Christness" may not be who they claim to be and may not actually have our best interests at heart?
edit on 6-4-2011 by Rhebefree because: mmm, so so

Your links dont work by the way
edit on 6-4-2011 by Rhebefree because: his links dont work

The ones in the boxes, the ones to threads do
edit on 6-4-2011 by Rhebefree because: meh


And also the book 'the secret doctrine seems to imply that some races of the aryan root race will die and be no more, I would consider that a sacrifice
edit on 6-4-2011 by Rhebefree because: adding a point



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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Perhaps I'll have more time to, and be able to, answer your questions soon; although for right now, which links are not working?

The ones that I've made into buttons which are enclosed in "external content" boxes?

They work when I click one them. What happens when you click on the button-links?

Thanks for letting me know.

edit on 6-4-2011 by Tamahu because: added button



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Perhaps I'll have more time to, and be able to, answer your questions soon; although for right now, which links are not working?

The ones that I've made into buttons which are enclosed in "external content" boxes?

They work when I click one them. What happens when you click on the button-links?

Thanks for letting me know.

edit on 6-4-2011 by Tamahu because: added button


Leaving me to figure it out on my own?
Fair enough, although until you are able to convince me otherwise, the whole thing seems dodgy.... If there are changes afoot, cyclical or forced, I doubt it has much to do with "ascension", more likely its to do with one grop of people Lording it over us through history and making sure we dont survive such a change while they do!

Nothing happens when I press the buttons



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:07 PM
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It's disappointing that my button-links are not working for others, because they work just fine when I click on them.


Anyway, I'm just saying that I'm not sure when or if I'll be able to answer all of your questions. Perhaps tonight, tomorrow, next week, or later. So please be patient, and we'll see what I can address in regard to your questions.


For right now, we'll state that it is taught that Bodhichitta is that which is the defining attribute of Christ:



Bodhicitta


(Sanskrit बोधिचित्त; often spelled bodhicitta, but pronounced bodee-cheeta) Literally, Bodhi means enlightenment or wisdom. Chitta means mind. The synthesis, bodhichitta means the enlightened mind or the mind of wisdom. This term has many levels of application.

1) In an introductory form, it is used to describe the altruistic intention to attain enlightenment for the benefit of suffering beings.

2) In Mahayana teachings it is an elevated state of awareness (prajna) which directly perceives Emptiness.

3) In tantra it refers to the seminal fluids of the body. The Tibetan version, byan-sems, can be translated either as “enlightenment mind” or “semen.”

4) Samael Aun Weor often expresses the synthesis of the term, which combines all these meanings.

"The Bodhichitta is the awakened and developed superlative Consciousness of the Being. The Bodhichitta emerges in the aspirant who sacrifices himself for his fellowmen, long before the Mercurial bodies have been created... It is necessary for the Bodhichitta, which means the auric embryo, the awakened consciousness, to fall into the Illuminated Void." - Samael Aun Weor, The Pistis Sophia Unveiled

"Obviously, before the Bodhisattva is born, the Bodhichitta must be formed within ourselves. Furthermore, it is important to clarify the necessity of disintegrating the ego, the “I,” in order for the Bodhichitta to emerge. The Bodhichitta is formed with the merits of love and supreme sacrifice for our fellowmen. The Bodhisattva is formed within the environment and psychological atmosphere of the Bodhichitta." - Samael Aun Weor, The Pistis Sophia Unveiled

"The one who does not possess the Bodhichitta, even when he has created the superior existential bodies of the being, is still unconscious and absurd." - Samael Aun Weor, The Pistis Sophia Unveiled


edit on 6-4-2011 by Tamahu because: emoticons




posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by Tamahu
 


Aww, maybe its not your fault maybe its my browser?
This next sentance is a bit cryptic, either you have no answers to those questions or you have to get permission to reveal your answers to those questions, and if the latter then that must suck for you cause it seems a tad overboard on the part of your..... Whoever tells you what not to reveal......

As for the whole Christ thing, did I see something there that hinted at sex being a means to attaining enlightenment? Guys must love that part!!

In all seriousness though, dont you think the whole concept of attaining enlightenment or whatever to acheive alleviation of suffering or escape from suffering is a bit, I dont know, self serving. I mean I know that you believe that youll be able to come back as a Christ and "show the way" and all that, but surely a more constructive way to alleviate suffering would be to just use our commonsense, now and here, in this moment? For instance if commonsense tells us that suffering has a cause, and if we isolate that cause we can do surgery on it, so to speak, and cure ourselves. For instance, surely everyone would agree that the root cause of suffering would be greedy men who take too much and give back little, well the solution would be to simply stop catering to their greed, not render them any of our services for their valueless paper money.... Oh what the world would be without greed. Then again I suppose someone else would just step into their place, but not if we dont let them.
Just meditating and hoping that we will become Christ like or that someone Christlike will come and save us has not eliminated any suffering (on a global scale) thus far, therefore it stands to reason that it does not work, so commonsense would say that we should try something different!
No offense intended.

Oh and by the way, about the Kundalini thing, I saw a youtube that interveiwed this scientist type guy who had done scientific tests on that stuff and concluded that there was something to it. However what concerned me was that his test subjects had traumatic experiences with malignent entities, what if the pineal gland is a gateway that should not be opened right up? Like Im thinking that yeah, we should learn how to silence our mind and dust the old eye off every now and then so the creator can get a word-in-edge-wise, but what if opening it all the way open allows for malignant entities, seen or un-seen, to get their word/influence in too, to your detriment?
I dont know, Ive always wanted to try opening the eye but I dont want to get posessed or anything so I dont.
Ive tried meditating tho, but Im not very good at it, I think like I talk; too much!!
edit on 7-4-2011 by Rhebefree because: spelling error



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by Rhebefree
It was my assumption that all Masons regardless of what God they start off with, are encouraged if not required to read, and learn, this stuff as they progress through the different levels, is this assumption wrong?



Masons are, of course, encouraged to learn whatever they can. In terms of this material, however, they are not required nor particularly encouraged. It has no place in Masonic ritual and does not feature in discussion within the lodge.


I read about occult authors who were masons or who have influenced secret societies and I try to read their books and their saying stuff like; "When mortals shall have become sufficiently spiritualised, there will be no more need of forcing them into a correct comprehension of ancient Wisdom" and;
"To make the point clear once for all: that which the clergy of every dogmatic religion — pre-eminently the Christian — points out as Satan, the enemy of God, is in reality, the highest divine Spirit" and; "symbols and rituals are merely blinds fabricated by the wise to perpetuate ideas incomprehensible to the average individual. He also realized that few Masons of today know or appreciate the mystic meaning concealed within these rituals."


These are not Masonic concepts in the least; if a Mason said them, he is voicing his opinion. Most Masons are themselves Christian, as Masonry is largely a western phenomenon.


And if Masonry does not have the different degrees and initiations that we are given to understand it does have what is meant by these authors in reference to degrees and initiation.... Understanding? So a "higher" degree denotes a higher level of understanding the mysteries?


In the blue lodge, a higher degree denotes passing an oral exam on whether you remember the previous degree. Outside of the blue lodge, a "higher" degree denotes membership in a certain organization. No degree higher than the 3rd means anything within the main body of Freemasonry.


If so understanding comes from learning and doing, if what you understand pertains to knowledge someone else has given you then you are only wise in the regards of that knowledge they have given you, so they not you are shaping your wisdom......


The same can be said about any path. The sum of your influences is a pretty good indicator of your knowledge.


So what makes them a "Grand officer"?


The same thing that makes anyone an officer in any organization: an election to a term as such.



Ok? Well what if these lessons that are theistic in nature are meant to sufficiently spiritualize you according to how they would have you spiritualised?



Then they would actually try to influence my spirituality, rather than tell me to practice my religion and study for myself.


Only because many people claim that TPTB, which many people believe are involved with the formation of and the running of secret societies, are just using religions (the exoteric) and keeping things from the religous, I was simply attempting to explore the possibility that they were commiting the same act against members of secret societies and that the reasons for doing so look like they reflect the things said in the book 'the secret doctrine'


Many people do claim this. Few actually propose a model of how this control occurs. So far, none I've seen have avoided serious factual errors revelaing the cart-before-horse nature of their "research".



I did not know this, but the fact still remains that something is going on that is Gnostic in nature, that doesnt sit right with me


1) Not necessarily.
2) Why doesn't it?


I dont understand this remark


Freemasonry is not a united international organization, but a number of state/national organizations (Grand Lodges) relying on mutual recognition. Some Grand Lodges have taken the position that women and atheists can be made Masons, including his.



Hence why I said "another form", I could say its a cult but I dont want to offend anyone since that word has an even more negative connotation to it than religion


How do you define it as a religion or a cult, though? You can say anything you want if you ignore the definition of the word.


Ok, but could it be using Freemasonry?


I can't for th elife of me find an efficient way to use Freemasonry as an implement of control of anything. You'd be better off using nearly anything else.


I am neither religous nor mason and am seeing things from the outside looking in. If I am wrong then I am wrong, however if you are wrong then you are being manipulated.



Really? Ok, so if I understand correctly, Freemasonry is more like a life skills/self help social group??


That's a way of putting it. How to actually define Freemasonry is something Masons have struggled with since the Craft's inception. If you don't mind a little puffery, here's a definition I'm fond of:


Masonry is the activity of closely united men who, employing symbolical forms borrowed principally from the mason's trade and from architecture, work for the welfare of mankind, striving morally to ennoble themselves and others, and thereby to bring about a universal league of mankind, which they aspire to exhibit even now on a small scale.



So what makes Masonry different from any religion?


Religions have clergy. Religions have theology as regards the nature of God. Religions have specific texts they consider sacred. Religions have plans of salvation. Masonry has none of these.


Why cant anyone who wants to learn and grow and improve their avenues to provide for charity (although I dont know what you mean by this dont charities have websites and phone numbers and campaigns?)


Yes, and they do fantastic work; I donate to them as much if not more than Masonic charitable activities. With Masonic charities, though, the process of involving oneself is easier.


Why do they have to believe in a God? Arent their plenty of Atheists who are good men?


Absolutely. But they and Masonry would have nothing to gain from each other.


Ok but if your being taught that these authors are wise and their books are to be read with the anticipation of gaining wisdom


We're not "taught" that at all. There's no Masonic required reading; I actually only have read the Pike that I have because I wanted to know what it was the anti-Masons were going on about. Actually, it was from fellow Masons that I found out where Pike was wrong, or going on assumptions since disproved.


then you are going to take it at face value that what is contained within is true?


When does anyone do this?


Or are these books lessons in discernment? Is that what seperates an initiated mason from an un-initiated mason, or the average reader, being able to discern what is truth in these dusty old books to what is fairy tale?


It's what separates the intelligent reader from the others. That said, it's not "truth" and "fairy tale", it's a matter of interpretation. Everything in Masonic ritual is an allegory, or "fairy tale" if you wish.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Rhebefree
reply to post by Tamahu
 


Aww, maybe its not your fault maybe its my browser?


Nope. Not getting it either.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by Rhebefree
 


Originally posted by Rhebefree
Could it be possible that it is not just religions that are a vehicle through which they spread their propaganda, but that the Masonic lodges, Occult websites and dare I say it, the "truth"/Conspiracy movement are also?


Nice thread ! I believe you are on a right track.
Their was a time when their were no religions and no gods (Jesus, Allah, Krishna) etc. or beliefs in a supreme being whom people worshiped or prayed to for their well-being. In those times their were several tribes all across the globe, those tribal people contrary to some beliefs, were well civilized with good spiritual understanding.

They believed everything on earth whether living and non-living has the same source which is spirit/consciousness; so they believed trees, stones, air, animals, humans etc. all came from the same inseparable source. So respecting and taking care of nature and various beings in it was their primary concern, polluting environment and hurting other beings was like hurting and destroying themselves as everyone believed they are connected with their environment and various other beings in it. That type of worship is still prevalent in many eastern cultures.

Their are many folk tales all over the world describing people having natural powers of telepathically communicating with other human beings, animals and even trees. All this was due to strong beliefs that their is same consciousness behind every face and form. Then their were some individuals called healers/shamans/saints/priests, who held high social status as they had the knowledge to directly travel into that formless and infinite spiritual realm and healing people by cleansing (removal of negative thoughts) their souls. These shamans also helped in guiding lost spirits stuck in astral planes to their final resting place; because those souls sometimes find it difficult to ascend further from those planes, due to various types of earthly attachments. And also their are malevolent souls of other dimensional beings (not ET's, Aliens etc.) in those astral realms who can easily manipulate those lost souls and even shamans if they have not strong belief systems.

Now, what I am about to say is what I found out after connecting various dots and these are my own beliefs, Some of those early shamans/healers who traveled into spiritual realms were manipulated by these inter-dimensional malevolent entities. Which corrupted their souls and they became greedy and selfish, so instead of helping others they began to harm others by creating false belief systems of worshiping some god/supreme being which is separate from them and this whole universe, and only those who will worship or believe in him will attain salvation or enlightenment. From their began the ultimate destruction of human race and life on earth, as they forgot they are the god which they seek, they stopped seeing the same consciousness present in every living and non living being. So they didn't cared for other humans and nature itself.

The future generations of those corrupt high priests than made several mystery religions which were like secret societies of the ruling class, and from their came several organized religions and other malevolent organizations - Kabbalah, Scientology, freemasonry, illuminati, Jesuits etc., all of them constitute the new age movement ("truth"/Conspiracy movement as you say) but the goals of these organizations remained the same i.e. destruction and maligning of true spiritual beliefs and practices, which will create chaos and confusion among the masses, centralization of power by influencing politics and banking systems of various countries, and all this leads to creation of easily controllable slaves ruled by few. So faces changed but the agendas remained the same.

The people we call elites today are completely subservient to inter-dimensional malevolent entities, they treat them as gods. The agendas of tptb comes from these entities, and Freemasons, illuminati, Jesuits etc. treat that as lord's work. They are so much blinded by these entities that they think those malevolent agendas are for betterment of humanity, so they see wars and children's dying from hunger etc. as good. All of them has this absurd notion that humanity can't think of it's well being on it's own, so we should teach them our version of morality and impose our agendas on them. All of this makes TPTB very egoistical, and dangerous for humanity without they themselves realizing this fact, and they still think that they will somehow become spiritually enlightened.

The path that humanity has chosen will ultimately lead to destruction of both elitists class and their slaves. If humanity want's to save itself and other life forms on this planet from complete annihilation, it should return immediately to the old spiritual beliefs (ref: para 2) and realize presence of inseparable consciousness in every being in this universe. Their is no external supreme being / grand architect or god, who will bestow you with spiritual enlightenment / salvation if you will act on his guidelines. Believe in yourself, take responsibility for your actions and go with the flow of life, and you will get what you want.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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All of them has this absurd notion that humanity can't think of it's well being on it's own, so we should teach them our version of morality and impose our agendas on them.


Actually, Freemasonry doesn't have that notion at all.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by Rhebefree
 




There is a ton of information out there, the hard part is sifting through it all, but I firmly believe that if we do have a creator he/she/it would probably encourage us to throw off the bonds of slavery, whether to dogma, christ or king and start using our common sense, our own intuition Divinely gifted to the human heart. Now is the time to start forging our way without the "Elect", now is the time to break free. "And all the saints say?.... AMEN!"


Star and Flag for a great, very well researched post on a subject that most fear to tread upon. I too have studied deeply into the Occult Teachings so hated by the Church and abhorred by the ignorant. I am like you, once I discovered what I could really do, what I was capable of once I shed the humanistic belief systems that had been forcefully thrust down my throat. I took a big step. Even today I am sometimes called a satanist because of my views on organized religion as a whole, and of it's many different sects of set in stone belief systems.

I came to know that I was a High, Divine Spirit, and that I was but a small part of a big whole. I came to know the Ancient Ones. The ones who came before. I delved into the books and did not come up for air for three years time, I took many notes, made drawings, charts showing associations, and began to know the Divine Words spoken by initiatives of the Forbidden Knowledge. Words were spoken to bring into existence the entire universe, and I deemed it my task to discover these words, and the wisdom to use them wisely.

For me this was a natural path, easy to follow, but them I am different from most in this manner, for me knowledge is like a very addictive drug, and I am totally hooked on it. A day without learning something new, stimuli, I begin to quickly lose touch with psychical reality, and in times of drugged sleep after my accident, I learned a great deal about the Higher Planes of Existence. The key here is your Zero Point Reference. This is your point of origin, and that which your spirit will return to, unless you consciously change this zero point origin, by connecting to that from which you came, and from that which you have touched in your travels as a spiritual being. We are actually inter-dimensional beings composed of energy, and we can freely travel between dimensions consciously if we are aware of them, and of the entry portals. My zero point origin is actually two, about 147 years apart

Friends, the time of Enlightenment is yours for the asking.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by Rhebefree
 


No I was not being cryptic and did not need "permission" from anyone. It is just that I did not know when I'd have time to address all of your questions, that's all.

Speaking of which, my internet just crashed and I lost over an hour of typing; so I'm not going to be participating much in this discussion, at least not for right now, leaving you to figure it out on your own.


Everything that was written in my lost-post in regard to the Occult, can anyhow be found explained in the teachings of:



Aberamentho (Yeshua Ben Pandira or Yehoshua Mashiach), Dante Alighieri, H.P. Blavatsky 12°, H.H. the Dalai Lama, Dion Fortune, Gurdjieff, Manly P. Hall 33°, Franz Hartmann, Max Heindel, V.M. Huiracocha, Tsong Khapa, Krishnamur ti, Eliphas Levi, Longchenpa, Master M:., Milarepa, Muhammad, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, Swami Sivananda, Rudolf Steiner, Shantideva, Swami Vivekananda, Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche (and also Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche), and V.M. Samael Aun Weor


...and many others. But most importantly:

The deepest, most sublime heights of our Inner Being.


Inverential Peace!

edit on 7-4-2011 by Tamahu because: punctuation



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

Here is a Gnostic glossary entry that explains the Rosicrucian Order.



Allow me to state, for the record, that the information in the above link has absolutely nothing to do with authentic Rosicruciansim. The crazy talk about Rosicrucians not having physical bodies or being resurrected beings stems from the neurotic mind of the late Victor Rodriguez (who claimed to be a spiritual being named "Samael Aun Weor").

Actual Rosicrucianism is based upon the following historical documents of the fraternity:

Fama Fraternitatis

Confessio Rosae Crucis

The Chymical Wedding



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by "Masonic Light"
 


What is written here does not contradict what was historically written by the real Rosicrucians (Fama Fraternitatis, Confessio Rosae Crucis, The Chymical Wedding, etc.).

(Thanks for the links to the mentioned Rosicrucian writings, by the way, as we've been wanting to study all of them more; but before doing so, would like to determine the authenticity of the links you've posted here)

Samael Aun Weor is simply saying there that the Rosicrucians are currently no longer operating in the physical world under that name. He is NOT saying that they didn't physically operate in the past under the Rosicrucian name.

Some authentic Rosicrucians may have physical bodies, and other authentic Rosicrucians may not. Either way, it is written that currently they are all ResurrectedMasters; so therefore anyone who in this day and age calls themselves a Rosicrucian, yet who is not a Resurrected Master, is said to be lying.

Now it is fine if you want to only acknowledge physical historical factors in regard to the Rosicrucians, as no one here is asking anyone to believe anything based on blind faith regarding them. This is why we need to learn how to Meditate, Astral Project, and eliminate our egos, in order to Know these things for ourselves based on investigations in the Superior Worlds.

Also, the writings on the Rosicrucians written by Franz Hartmann, Max Heindel, Huiracocha (Arnold Krumm-Heller 97°), Manly P. Hall 33°, Rudolf Steiner, and Samael Aun Weor, are all worthwhile for anyone interested in the topic.

edit on 7-4-2011 by Tamahu because: added link



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu


Samael Aun Weor is simply saying there that the Rosicrucians are currently no longer operating in the physical world under that name.


Mr. Rodriguez was incorrect.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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I would like to thank everyone who is following this thread and posting responses, I'm learning heaps and having my brain cells given a right good workout

It will take me a while to respond to each post on this page individually, so I just thought I'd say thanks in advance, so no-one feels Im taking too long and decides not to come back



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
Masons are, of course, encouraged to learn whatever they can. In terms of this material, however, they are not required nor particularly encouraged. It has no place in Masonic ritual and does not feature in discussion within the lodge.

(I see, thanks for informing me, it's ok, if the chart in the post beneath yours is correct then I dont have to worry so much about masons anyway, its the mystery schools we gotta take down! Do Masons receive lessons from these mystery schools?
)

These are not Masonic concepts in the least; if a Mason said them, he is voicing his opinion. Most Masons are themselves Christian, as Masonry is largely a western phenomenon.

(Ahh, but what are Christian concepts? If they are the outward expression of what is said to be esoteric then how do we know the esoteric is not the outward expression of some other "truth", how do the masons who are Christians interpret esoteric teachings, that surely must play a part in your rituals and stuff?, if the chart posted below you is true (and it sure makes sense to me) then wouldnt you feel a tad used?)

In the blue lodge, a higher degree denotes passing an oral exam on whether you remember the previous degree. Outside of the blue lodge, a "higher" degree denotes membership in a certain organization. No degree higher than the 3rd means anything within the main body of Freemasonry.

(You have exams!
My gosh thats horrible! Like being in another high skool (you can tell how well I did in my exams :lol
, that settles it, if I reincarnate as a man, freemasonry will not be for me!!)

The same can be said about any path. The sum of your influences is a pretty good indicator of your knowledge.

(The sum of your influences is a pretty good indicator of your knowledge? I reckon experiance is a better indicator, or rather experiance, intuition and commonsense should make up the bulk of the teachers that influence your perceived knowledge, for instance the "elders" of a church I once belonged to had this concept that it was ok to threaten people with having their kids taken off them if they did not adhere to strict church code (which incidently included not becoming close with non-Christians, except to convert them!), so when I learned this intuition told me to get the heck out of there, which I did, a freind of mine did not and consequently had her children taken off her and placed in homes within said church. She is still fighting to get them back and refuses to have any part in anything that smacks of spirituality, which is such a shame, so intuition saved me from going through that kind of ideal, but trusting in an organisation that said it had her best interest at heart caused my friend pain and loss and a rejection of the Divine..... See where I'm going with this? Why do we, that includes masons, trust these people/organisations just because they seem to hold a higher truth, or promise to make you a better person or have social benefits, why cant we individually be our own teachers, our own guides, our own salvation? Why do we feel the need to be part of seperate groups all the time!!?)

The same thing that makes anyone an officer in any organization: an election to a term as such.

(You realise democracy is a facade right?)

Then they would actually try to influence my spirituality, rather than tell me to practice my religion and study for myself.

(So their are no lessons theistic in nature like you said?)


Many people do claim this. Few actually propose a model of how this control occurs. So far, none I've seen have avoided serious factual errors revelaing the cart-before-horse nature of their "research".

(Only because we are not allowed a look see for ourselves, and once we join well we clam up, somewhat dont we? Just like cult members do.......
In all honestly I dont know, I guess in the end it will come down to what I choose to beleive (hey, atleast I'm being honest!))

1) Not necessarily.
2) Why doesn't it?

(haha, I see what your doing here! 1. Yes, all this ascension stuff I see going viral, I traced back to Gnosticsm, unless there are older traditions here that Gnosticsm is derived from, that........ Hey! There is isnt there? Oh your good! 2. Because its manipulative and I dont like being manipulated by people (beings?) that claim to have my best interests at heart.... Esspecially when they dont! Sorry been there done that, not good!)


Freemasonry is not a united international organization, but a number of state/national organizations (Grand Lodges) relying on mutual recognition. Some Grand Lodges have taken the position that women and atheists can be made Masons, including his.

(Oh ok, so chicks get a taste of world domination too now do they, a bit "too little too late" dont ya think!!
But I jest, I jest
)

How do you define it as a religion or a cult, though? You can say anything you want if you ignore the definition of the word.

(Well I personally define both religion and cult by; an organisation, be it large or small, that attempts to lead their flock by a leash dictating how they interpret the supposed "mysteries" of life, while promising social benefits and or rewards, but thats just my humble opinion)

I can't for th elife of me find an efficient way to use Freemasonry as an implement of control of anything. You'd be better off using nearly anything else.

(Well going by the chart in the next post freemasonry seems to be a good way to ensure control of some things, are you in banking or politics? Dont worry, I'm sure your masters will deem you worthy to climb the ranks to one of many dictators soon...... But I jest, I jest, or do I????)


I am neither religous nor mason and am seeing things from the outside looking in. If I am wrong then I am wrong, however if you are wrong then you are being manipulated.


(?)

That's a way of putting it. How to actually define Freemasonry is something Masons have struggled with since the Craft's inception. If you don't mind a little puffery, here's a definition I'm fond of:


Masonry is the activity of closely united men who, employing symbolical forms borrowed principally from the mason's trade and from architecture, work for the welfare of mankind, striving morally to ennoble themselves and others, and thereby to bring about a universal league of mankind, which they aspire to exhibit even now on a small scale.


Universal league of mankind? Sounds creepy

Religions have clergy. Religions have theology as regards the nature of God. Religions have specific texts they consider sacred. Religions have plans of salvation. Masonry has none of these.

But it still has lessons Theistic in nature? So lessons about God or the beleif of God, lessons are for learning, learning about God according to a set of prescribed teachings that will help you as you strive to morally ennoble yourself and OTHERS to bring about a universal league of man for the welfare of man...... Sounds exacty like a religion to me..... A creepy religion


Yes, and they do fantastic work; I donate to them as much if not more than Masonic charitable activities. With Masonic charities, though, the process of involving oneself is easier.

(Fair enough)


Absolutely. But they and Masonry would have nothing to gain from each other.

Why? Surely if what your learning and doing, if its not psychotic, is going to be for everyones (or just mens?) benefit then anyone should be allowed to become part of this league if they are good people??? Isnt that whoever implemented these organisations just want people who are already.... How do I put this without peeving you off? Subserviant? Maleable? Willing to bow?
Just putting the idea out there

We're not "taught" that at all. There's no Masonic required reading; I actually only have read the Pike that I have because I wanted to know what it was the anti-Masons were going on about. Actually, it was from fellow Masons that I found out where Pike was wrong, or going on assumptions since disproved.

(Fair enough, so what are these teachings Theistic in nature? And if your rituals and symbols are based on stone masonry, building, architecture, and by your own admission you are creepily trying to bring about a universal "league" of ennoble (noble rank or title, "Elect" then?) men, for our benefit (thanks man, Im sorry but how is this not reflected in 'The secret Doctrine'?) then surely that means that you are complicit in, if however inadvertantly, the establishment, or continuation of an elite world dommination type situation? Geepers man, who's fooling who here?

When does anyone do this?

(I used to, not anymore though thankgoodness, now that Ive discovered your plot!)
(But really, in all seriousness when does anybody not do this? From the newspaper, to religous texts, to the forum boards, most people will take things at face value because most people are honest about stuff, except on online dating sites apparently, and assume everyone like them are going to be honest too.... Or something like that!)

It's what separates the intelligent reader from the others. That said, it's not "truth" and "fairy tale", it's a matter of interpretation. Everything in Masonic ritual is an allegory, or "fairy tale" if you wish.

(really? So you can interpret it any which way you like? Very interesting, so only those who interpret it right get to lead the league huh? Haha, Im on to you!!



Please note that you may have detected a slight, umm merriment? in my replies, it is not that Im taking this all as a joke, its just that Im a Kiwi living in Aus- I have to have a sense of humour!!


Seriously though, thankyou for taking the time to share with me the information you are able to share with me, its very helpful, at this rate I shall be sure of everything before I die, well maybe not everything, and maybe not before I die........ but atleast I shall be sure of some things when I die!!



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by illuminazislayer
reply to post by Rhebefree
 


The path that humanity has chosen will ultimately lead to destruction of both elitists class and their slaves. If humanity want's to save itself and other life forms on this planet from complete annihilation, it should return immediately to the old spiritual beliefs (ref: para 2) and realize presence of inseparable consciousness in every being in this universe. Their is no external supreme being / grand architect or god, who will bestow you with spiritual enlightenment / salvation if you will act on his guidelines. Believe in yourself, take responsibility for your actions and go with the flow of life, and you will get what you want.


Thats exactly the conclusion I have come to myself, we are our own saviours! I dont beleive we are God in the Gnostic sense of the word, as in we are parts of the Divine conciousness, they have ruined the concept for me! I prefer to see it as we are part of the creative Essence of God, the result of the light of the feminine uniting with the rythm of the masculine, that is why we are all of us a bit of male and a bit of female.Two energies joined to produce a third entirely new! This third is the essence of life, cosmic sperm (if your not too immature to think of it that way without laughing, which Im not! haha!), there is no point to it, no evolution or ascension or whatever, just life for the extension of life!
I'm actually writing my own scriptres, not because I want a new religion (as if we dont have enough already!) but because I find it very therapuetic and it helps to get a handle on all the information thats coming at me, when Im done I'll post them in a new thread maybe.... Or maybe not.
Anyho, your idea about shamans and inter-dimensional beings makes perfect sense to me, although I am also exploring another concept which states that there are beings living on other planes/dimensions who feed off "souls" or the essence in order to extend their lives, religion serves to bind people to said beings so that upon death they will go straight to them like a moth to the flame, which would explain why the Abrahmic "God", among others required blood/flesh sacrifices, and why TPTB want to sufficiently "spiritualize" us, and also why I find the whole concept of Maitrya's behind the scenes "guiding" our "ascension" a little creepy!
I dont know, but I'll get to the bottom of this if its the last thing I do!!
Thanks for the chart by the way, I saved it to my computer if you dont mind.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Rhebefree
 




There is a ton of information out there, the hard part is sifting through it all, but I firmly believe that if we do have a creator he/she/it would probably encourage us to throw off the bonds of slavery, whether to dogma, christ or king and start using our common sense, our own intuition Divinely gifted to the human heart. Now is the time to start forging our way without the "Elect", now is the time to break free. "And all the saints say?.... AMEN!"


Star and Flag for a great, very well researched post on a subject that most fear to tread upon. I too have studied deeply into the Occult Teachings so hated by the Church and abhorred by the ignorant. I am like you, once I discovered what I could really do, what I was capable of once I shed the humanistic belief systems that had been forcefully thrust down my throat. I took a big step. Even today I am sometimes called a satanist because of my views on organized religion as a whole, and of it's many different sects of set in stone belief systems.

I came to know that I was a High, Divine Spirit, and that I was but a small part of a big whole. I came to know the Ancient Ones. The ones who came before. I delved into the books and did not come up for air for three years time, I took many notes, made drawings, charts showing associations, and began to know the Divine Words spoken by initiatives of the Forbidden Knowledge. Words were spoken to bring into existence the entire universe, and I deemed it my task to discover these words, and the wisdom to use them wisely.

For me this was a natural path, easy to follow, but them I am different from most in this manner, for me knowledge is like a very addictive drug, and I am totally hooked on it. A day without learning something new, stimuli, I begin to quickly lose touch with psychical reality, and in times of drugged sleep after my accident, I learned a great deal about the Higher Planes of Existence. The key here is your Zero Point Reference. This is your point of origin, and that which your spirit will return to, unless you consciously change this zero point origin, by connecting to that from which you came, and from that which you have touched in your travels as a spiritual being. We are actually inter-dimensional beings composed of energy, and we can freely travel between dimensions consciously if we are aware of them, and of the entry portals. My zero point origin is actually two, about 147 years apart

Friends, the time of Enlightenment is yours for the asking.




Some interesting insights that I have not heard before, thankyou, looks like I have a bit more delving to do!





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