The Metaphysics of holocaust Denial

Truth is, the leaders of the phenomenon of "holocaust denial" dont really believe that the holocaust didnt happen. That would be absurd, given the evidence and testimony we have.

What motivates holocast denial is the same thing which motivated the holocaust. The same which motivated the Russian Pogroms and Christian Crusades/inquisitions, and the persecutions of the Persian, Greeks and Romans.

It is a philosophy. A philosophy held equal by the ancient Gentile nations: the Egyptian, Babylonian, Greeks and Persians. This philosophy contradicts the theology of the Jews. Hence the separation the bible always makes between the Jews and the "nations". The separation is rooted in philosophy: in beliefs.

This philosophy is a moral relativism. It sees only ends, and the means are only necessary tools to affect those ends. Whether you people want to believe or understand this, or reject it is completely irrelevant. Believers in G-d, whether Jewish or Christian, or even peaceful muslims will always be at odds with the pagan, antinomian, will to power that controls the worlds governments.

This is the only truth behind holocaust denial. The holocaust happened. However, those who deny it simply want others, the ignorant, and naive to believe that it didnt.

in my opinion, the holocaust happened differently than 'history' has told. There is numerous documentation out there from even rabbi's claiming that it didn't happen how it was proclaimed to. But this isn't metaphysical and i don't even understand what your basis is for making such a post. It's been discussed numerous times on ATS. You can have your opinion and i can have mine. Neither will change what really happened and how little we actually know about it.

Is there any "proof" the holocaust happened?
Sure there were detention camps, but there were Britts, Americans, French, Japanese, German, Etc. in those too.
And yes "Jews" died but so did Britts, Americans, French, Japanese, German, Etc.
So yes "the holocaust" happened but, there were alot more than jews involved.
For some reason though only 1 set of folks has been singled out as the only "victims".
No matter how people try to put a psychologic spin on things alot of people died, and it was financed by the bankers.
Now the big question is, who were the bankers?
Psychoanalyze that.
You will probably think me an antisemite, but no i hate all that would capitalize on anothers death and misfortune.
And just from events that i know to be true is what i see.
Google USS Liberty if you need any reference material.
There are other acts against the US and other countries but some of those are claimed to be conspiracy theory and suppressed.
I dunno, the logical side of my brain screams lies and coverup.
Now with that being a basis, history repeats its self.

reply to post by jvm222


I guess you fail to understand what "metaphysical" means.

Propaganda is a metaphysical art. It works upon the "unconscious", which of course is beyond the physical, hence "metaphysical".

And it is repulsive to even assume that it was "less". On what basis do you make that argument? For every Rabbi that makes that assertion you'll find 300 more that will challenge him.

To assume that the holocaust was exaggerated, would be to imply that there was a reason and rationale for it to be exaggerated. Implying zionism, of course, embellished the numbers of Jews killed to garner world sympathy for them to "steal" Palestine from the Arabs.. DESPITE the fact that Palestine was promised to the Jews in 1917; 22 years before the holocaust even began. The Jews were to get it regardless of the holocaust. And if you cared to read a book and educate yourself, you would understand that the Jewish state should have been existence prior to the holocaust - as was promised to them by the balfour declaration. Arab protests and illegal immigration caused the British to curtail immigration to around around 15,000 a year. This evl ploy of theirs perfectly coincided with the holocaust. When it began, those 6 million killed by the Nazis would have had a safe haven. Even those who attempted to enter palestine were sent back by the British to their deaths. Another boat with 700 Jews - children most of them - off the coast of Turkey was torpedoed. 700 Jews seeking safety from being murdered by the Germans were than murdered by the British. Its a big game to these people.

Propaganda plays on peoples ignorance, and willingness to defer to the popular opinion. Because for the most part, people are timid, and weak minded, and so to remedy this egoic condition they "jump on the bandwagon", which grants them security and comfort by being apart of the "majority". This is a metaphysical discussion. It deserves to be looked at from this angle, as opposed to just being analyzed politically.

Those who say the Holocaust didnt happen, or "was exaggerated", are implying the same thing. The latter simply dilutes or "compromises" their argument, but the end effect is the same. Calling into question all things Jewish: Zionism, Israel, Judaism. All these things are implicated by these incredibly virulent assertions. They are quite literally, as George Orwell taught (if you bother to learn from these political giants) designed to "rewrite history".

"the past was erased, the erasure was forgotten;the lie became truth”

And indeed, those who pioneered these assertions were and are moral relativists who have no regard for universal ideas of right and wrong. The only thing of worth is necessity; and he who exercises necessity prudently possesses virtue.

Being sceptical of the events does not equate to denial.

Take this video for example, it raises quite a few questions...Like why did Rudolf Hoss lie at Nuremberg, He stated in his confession that some 4 million jews died at Auschwitz.....and the figure of 6 million was arrived at through such evidence as this put forward at the trials.

Yet later records released by the Russians prompted a reduction in those numbers to around 1 million......... THIS IS FACT...

Anyway for those that want to hear more questions, watch the video below.

VIDEO HERE

reply to post by ken10


Even if the numbers were actually less than reported, that doesn't stop the Holocaust from being an horrible atrocity which should have never happened.

I submit to you that it is not about differences between nations.
It is about the hubris of thinking human kind can fix the planet.

In the middle ages in Italy there were a few cases of a new disease that later is called the "black death."
Deciding that rats carried the disease a simple solution was implimented. Kill the rats. And they did. Massive exterminations in the port cities. Rat killing was a growth industry.

Here is what they didn't know.

It was actually an invasive genus of rats coming over on ships that carried the diseased fleas.
And there were only a few cases because the local rat populations had mostly resisted incursions.
But by exterminating the local rats, the shipborne rats were able to move in and take over.

And Europe was never the same again.

Now lets use little Adolf's own words against him.
If he didn't believe that hebrews were just rats,
if he didn't spend big bucks making movies
saying just that, if he and his henchmen
didn't systematically exterminate them

Then why is Europe overrun with Imigrants.
What happened to the existing poor?


David grouchy

My father was in the 82nd airborne which was one of the units that liberated the prisoners at Wobbelin. That's proof enough for me. My sister has the patch that denotes 82nd, and we've seen the same patch on display at St. Petersberg museum in Fla.

This philosophy is a moral relativism. It sees only ends, and the means are only necessary tools to affect those ends.

Bingo!

This also explains the insistence of the left on demonising Israel as somehow being a Nazi state despite all evidence and commonsense.

I think what most people refer to as "deniers" don't deny that anything happened, they just think it didn't happen exactly like the history books tell us. I for example think the numbers were skewed and blown out of proportion, not that nothing at all happened.

Originally posted by dontreally
Truth is, the leaders of the phenomenon of "holocaust denial" dont really believe that the holocaust didnt happen. That would be absurd, given the evidence and testimony we have.

What motivates holocast denial is the same thing which motivated the holocaust. The same which motivated the Russian Pogroms and Christian Crusades/inquisitions, and the persecutions of the Persian, Greeks and Romans.

It is a philosophy. A philosophy held equal by the ancient Gentile nations: the Egyptian, Babylonian, Greeks and Persians. This philosophy contradicts the theology of the Jews. Hence the separation the bible always makes between the Jews and the "nations". The separation is rooted in philosophy: in beliefs.

This philosophy is a moral relativism. It sees only ends, and the means are only necessary tools to affect those ends. Whether you people want to believe or understand this, or reject it is completely irrelevant. Believers in G-d, whether Jewish or Christian, or even peaceful muslims will always be at odds with the pagan, antinomian, will to power that controls the worlds governments.

This is the only truth behind holocaust denial. The holocaust happened. However, those who deny it simply want others, the ignorant, and naive to believe that it didnt.

Are you kidding me? The "Pagans" that control the world's governments? You do know that most people are Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, right? They try to change laws to make it fit with their holy book and some of these laws pass since the majority always win due to votes.

Anyway, that event happened long ago. You can keep pondering it and feeling bad about something that already happened or you can get over it, your choice. It's the year 2011, get up with the times.

Originally posted by dontreally

What motivates holocast denial is the same thing which motivated the holocaust.

So, are you assuming that everyone who questions the holocaust is anti-semetic? Maybe some people question it because in history, nothing can be assumed as 100% true by the "history books". After all, history is written by the victors, is it not? I think that it is unfair to label all who question the "history book" story of the holocaust as anti-semetics.

reply to post by AlphaZero

that doesn't stop the Holocaust from being an horrible atrocity which should have never happened.

Excuse me, But the whole war was an atrocity that shouldn't have happened........Some 50 million innocents DEAD.


50 Million

@g146541
star for you!
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@dontreally (OP)
Thread= FAIL
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Slavery in Egypt= FAIL
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Holocaust being only Jews= FAIL
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Distraction from the money trail on all of these events= PASS
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Zionism (stealing jerusalem from the muslims)= FAILING

reply to post by LuisCyfer


Oh thats rich, lucifer. Stealing jerusalem from the muslims.

Thanks for displaying that which this thread is describing

You may think your smart, but youre stupid. All of you who play political games and lie for advancing you agenda. I cant guarantee you that you will taste of your fruits in the next world, but there is a very good chance that you will.

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


I wonder why more people dont understand that.

There is either knowledge of this fact, which produces two types of people: those who seek to conceal the truth of this fact, and those who rally against it, or complete ignorance. The vast majority of posters here enter the second category. Some are in the first category. And unfortunately, most in the first category are those who seek to conceal or distort this fact. They pretend as if it doesnt exist.

Im currently studying Machiavelli and Leo Strauss. It simply frustrates the hell out of me how incredibly naive the simple folk are. I, someone who is trying to inform the decent and humane amongst mankind am honestly trying to expose this evil. What is hard to understand? George Orwell is popular, is he not? Most conspiracy people are aware of his book 1984, or animal farm? Do they not realize that this man prescribes methods used by governments to manipulate the masses? A popular notion of his is "the past was erased, the erasure was forgotten;the lie became truth” the idea of rewriting history. The psychologist CG Jung said “loss of roots and lack of tradition neuroticize the masses and prepare them for collective hysteria. Collective hysteria calls for collective therapy, which consists of abolition of liberty and terrorization. Where rationalistic materialism holds sway, states tend to develop less into prisons than into lunatic asylums". People MUST realize that the prime method of control the elites use against the masses is dissassociating them from the past. From history, and especially their OWN history. Memory is connection, and those who remember NEVER LET the evils of the past happen again. Why is it then that horrible things in history continue to recur? Because the elite make sure the "the past is forgotten". They forget, and so by forgetting they allow what happened once to happen again.

Memory is power. The Jews of all people have manifested this ability. What else is the bible but a memory of mankinds past? To those who understand the inner meanings of the names of the generations, understand that everything that happened in mankinds past is recorded in these books. The Torah of Israel is Mankinds heritage, not just the Jews. The Jews have simply been the caretakers of this wisdom. The ELITE, who so many naively believe to be "christians" are no more christians than machiavellis prince was a saint. Listen to Plato, or any of the classic political philosophers. The elites, the nobility, dont care for Jewish ethics, and therefore they dont really believe in Christianity. If anyone honestly believes that Constatine cnverted to Christianity because of a real spiritual experience, and all of Rome with him converted because of that experience, know DIDILLY # about history, or politics, or even human nature.

Rome arrogated Christianity to themselves. None of their founders were interested in christian/Jewish morality, because they didnt hold to anyone universal moral values. They were moral relativists. Back than, and today, still are.

Hence this not-so-suprising resurgence of ancient paganism in modern day. Hence the "Moon" and woodstock coinciding in the same year, and the Catholic Churchs doctrine of the ascension of Mary in 1950. These are all esotric concepts that elude the naive and deluded. These all refer to the return of "goddess worship", which today almost completely rules the minds of the masses; via education and media particularly.

Listen to Jung. He spoke prophetically when he wrote that in '49. The masses will become completely HYSTERICAL when the economy collapsers and theyre left with nothing. Like in Weimar Germany, a leader may arise who will make all sorts of amazing promises to the peoples. He'll invoke the patriotic spirit, as Hitler did. Some thing, or great idea will be heralded. I dont know what that is. But it is bound to come.

Edit:

@dontreally
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I do not have any agenda and I certainly don't lie. I may have stumbled upon some misinformation from time to time, but its where the money trail lead. Where did you matriculate? What makes you so much better than everyone else on ATS?
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Most of my intuition in this matter came from the Torah which as you know belonged to the ancient Hebrew. Who are an extinct race which modern Jews (for lack of a simpler term) pretend to be. The Judaistic roots lie firmly in fertility worship (according to Naked Archaeology), which the modern day Muslims never adopted and the ancient Hebrews abhorred.
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Perhaps the modern Zionist movement has given the people a bad name and most of them don't support it. But the true test is to see where the money is going.
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Which halocaust are you talking about? The one that happened around the 40's in Europe or the one that is happening right now in Gaza?

I can't take your post seriously because you presume to tell me, a pagan, how pagans think, and will obviously think - and I don't think you have a clue.

reply to post by dontreally


I don't think there is much mystery here.

What motivates holocaust denials? The same thing that motivates those who imprison people for questioning the holocaust.