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Taiwan's independence, your opinion

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posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 09:52 PM
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No matter what happen,even if US participates the war,when it announces independence,it will be the time that we must fight.It is the opinion people mostly think in China.We love our country and wanna a peaceful life,so we must fight with Taiwan even USA.




posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 08:10 AM
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what i want to say is that the chinese people want the reunification of china not because "the years of brainwashing of the CCP",actually,whatever party in charge,if it want the support from the chinese people,will never let Taiwan go.
the taiwan issue is one of the remained problems of the coldwar,it has little to do with humanrights or freedom or sth like that(which is often an execuse for the US to start a war),I guess u all know that one part of a country don't have the right to declare independence,no matter how beautiful the execuse may be.
i often visit website and forums in Taiwan,i quite understand some people of taiwan don't want back NOW,but i believe since the chinesemainland is making great progress,taiwan will be back sooner or later.there is no need for another civil war,i hope even if taiwan declare indepence,the chinesemainland would simplily ignore it .after all,we are the same people,we are of the same blood,the same culture and the same language.the chinese has undergone too much sufferings last century.we don't want one more.
but if it is accompanied by a foreign invasion,then we have no choice but FIGHT.

BTW:even the chinese people are not very much corcerned with the issue,
and the majority of my teachers and classmates believes there will never be a war,it's quit interesting that the US people seems more conerned with it.

[edit on 16-10-2004 by suihx]



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 10:26 AM
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Chinese leadership understands this fact very well. That is why they are hesistating to act. They would lose more than they gain and that is fact. Propaganda blankets this fact from the people and they fail to see the real situation. It is not just simply taking Taiwan over, it is the outcome and effects of this potential war has on China's economy. China only wants Taiwans' economy. Yes Chinese officials know this very well, more than the people should know.

Propaganda plays a big part in this invasion. The people of China are only seeing the picture that their government is painting, and that is uniting brothers from two sides and become one, in part of this is true. But they fail to see the effects it has on their economy because the governement does not give them the whole shebang.

it seems to me that u seriouly overestimated the power of propaganda,the people's brains are very hard to control,otherwise the USSR should never fall.the chinese people want china to be unified and powerful mainly because we have suffered too much when our motherland was weak and in the state of split up.



The Chinese government has other things on the table besides uniting Taiwan, it wants Taiwan for its economy, its workforce resources, its natural resources. They do not want to take Taiwan for its land, that island is filled with over 20 millions people already. But those 20 millions are well educated beyond the educational level of China. That would really helps China's economy. It is the workforce and the economy China is after.

Think of the effects it has on China's economy, it is tremendous either way. They would be lose a lot or gain a lot.

i'm quite disgree.if fact,the economy of the chinesemainland doubles every 8-9years,its 2-3years development can cover the economy of Taiwan ,the chinese educational level is low simply because virtually the college starts since 1980s,nowadays each year there are more than 2million graduates in china.so it is quite unwise to start a war to gain "the economy and human resources of Taiwan".especially when must take the risk of confronting a superpower.
if there should be a war,whatever the result may be,the chinese people will be the loser and the chinesemainland will gain nothing.but it is the taiwan leaders who is continually provoke the chinesemainland.



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 10:31 AM
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I have read some of the responses to this topic, and there are people with a complete misperception of the situation.

Taiwan was only a province of China for ten years (1885-1895). Prior to that, it was on the fringes of Chinese civilization, parts of the island only beginning to be governed by a Chinese empire after the Manchus conquered China in the 17th century. Even then, only a small part of Taiwan was under Qing control and there were countless rebellions on the island.

The Qing surrendered Taiwan forever in 1895 after the Japanese defeated China in the Sino-Japanese War. The Allies won World War II and the KMT government of China accepted the surrender of the Japanese in Taiwan (as well as in Viet Nam) ON BEHALF OF THE ALLIES! Sovereignty of Taiwan was not conferred on to China, a fact acknowledged by the KMT at the time as Taiwan was not permitted to send any delegates to the Constitutional convention that was held in Nanjing in 1947, two years after the end of the war and acceptance of Japanese surrender.

The post war treaty was finally signed in 1951, having taken effect in 1952. While the Japanese surrendered their claim to China in the san Francisco Peace Treaty, there is no mention of any transfer of sovereignty to China. Such specific mention is required under international law.

What should have happened at that time is a plebiscite among the Taiwanese people under the concept of self-determination that was enshrined in the UN Charter. However, the Chiang Dynasty, reliant on Taiwan to maintain its desparate dream of recovering China, perpetuated the myth that Taiwan was a part of China. Quite simply, it is not.

Today, Taiwan is a democracy, and for the third consecutive presidential election (of the three in Taiwan's history), the people of Taiwan have elected the pro-localization candidate. There is also a good chance that pro-localization forces will win the legislative elections on December 11th.

It is clear that the people of Taiwan have no desire to be a part of China. The young people feel that more strongly than anyone. As they reach voting age, and those who came with the KMT and those brainwashed by them, continue dying off, Taiwan will only become more assertive of the independence that it already has, by law and by morality.

www.geocities.com...

[edit on 2004/10/16 by ludahai]



posted on Oct, 16 2004 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by ludahai
Taiwan was only a province of China for ten years (1885-1895). Prior to that, it was on the fringes of Chinese civilization, parts of the island only beginning to be governed by a Chinese empire after the Manchus conquered China in the 17th century. Even then, only a small part of Taiwan was under Qing control and there were countless rebellions on the island.

Taiwan is a province of china for only ten years because the central government thought it was too small to be a province,and set it as a part of Fujian province,and even before,there was no formal government set on the island because the population there was too small.actually taiwan has been a part of china for over 1000 years.
as for the rebellions,taiwan was once the base for remained power of the Ming dynasty to confront the Qing.(so,don't tell me they are fight for freedom or humanrights
) but as known to all,they are only different dynasties of china,none of them should be regarded foreign.



The post war treaty was finally signed in 1951, having taken effect in 1952. While the Japanese surrendered their claim to China in the san Francisco Peace Treaty, there is no mention of any transfer of sovereignty to China. Such specific mention is required under international law.

the san Francisco Peace Treaty is used as a proof for taiwan's independence,but the TIers (perhaps deliberately) forget that china
(neither the PRC nor the ROC)has never signed the treaty.



It is clear that the people of Taiwan have no desire to be a part of China. The young people feel that more strongly than anyone. As they reach voting age, and those who came with the KMT and those brainwashed by them, continue dying off, Taiwan will only become more assertive of the independence that it already has, by law and by morality.

"brainwash" is quit a useful word,with it ,u could ignore the ideas who disagree with u and it seems only those agree with u have their right mind.
this u show me again.




[edit on 16-10-2004 by suihx]

[edit on 16-10-2004 by suihx]



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by suihx
[Taiwan is a province of china for only ten years because the central government thought it was too small to be a province,and set it as a part of Fujian province,and even before,there was no formal government set on the island because the population there was too small.actually taiwan has been a part of china for over 1000 years.


Wrong on a lot of counts. When the Qing Dynasty (Admiral ShiLang) brought Taiwan into the Chinese Empire (actually the Manchu controlled Qing Dynasty), the emperor was hesitant to formally annex the island. Even when they did, the Chinese only halfheartedly developed it. Furthermore, until the 1870s, only a small fraction of it was actually under the control of Qing authorities.

The notion that Taiwan was a part of China for 1000 years is absurd. Even the Ming Emperor acknowledged that it lay beyond their domains in the 1620s in an exchange of letters with the Dutch that resulted in the later's evacuation from Penghu to Taiwan.


as for the rebellions,taiwan was once the base for remained power of the Ming dynasty to confront the Qing.(so,don't tell me they are fight for freedom or humanrights
) but as known to all,they are only different dynasties of china,none of them should be regarded foreign.


However, the pro-Ming resistance ended in 1683. The innumerable rebellions in the 18th century had nothing to do with Ming resistance to the Qing, but rather to the resistance of Taiwanese people to Chinese authority on the island.


the san Francisco Peace Treaty is used as a proof for taiwan's independence,but the TIers (perhaps deliberately) forget that china
(neither the PRC nor the ROC)has never signed the treaty.


Regardless, it was this treaty (signed by nerly two dozens Allies) in which Japan formally renunciated its claim to Taiwan. If you want to go down this road of not recognizing the SF Peace Treaty, then you would have to acknowledge that Taiwan is still the sovereign territory of Japan. Of course, this is absurd. Despite the fact that China was not a signatory to the treaty, this is the document by which Japan definitively relinquished its sovereign claim to Taiwan and no country was identified as a beneficiary, a requirement confirmed by a long tradition of state practice, a leading source of international law.



"brainwash" is quit a useful word,with it ,u could ignore the ideas who disagree with u and it seems only those agree with u have their right mind.
this u show me again.


However, that is exactly what the KMT did in their first few decades in Taiwan. Schoolchildren were even punished for speaking the Taiwanese language outside of class with their friends during the KMT regime.



posted on Oct, 17 2004 @ 05:07 AM
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When the Qing Dynasty (Admiral ShiLang) brought Taiwan into the Chinese Empire (actually the Manchu controlled Qing Dynasty), the emperor was hesitant to formally annex the island. Even when they did, the Chinese only halfheartedly developed it.

en....quite different from what i know,but here i don't want to cite my materials,caz it won't settle the problem.just use our sense of reason,if the emperor was hesitant to formally annex the island,then why he send his army to conquer the island.as to my knowledge,admiral shilang lead the army of the Qing Empire took taiwan.your arguement is misleading in that it seems ShiLang was the governor of Taiwan and he brought Taiwan into the Qing Empire,which is absolutely not the case.btw:i want to inform u that your ancestors is most probably among "the chinese" in your arguement.



The innumerable rebellions in the 18th century had nothing to do with Ming resistance to the Qing, but rather to the resistance of Taiwanese people to Chinese authority on the island.

it is commonplace for rebellions took place in the 18th century in china,in the mainland it was the same,it is absurd u interpret it as a resistance of Taiwanese people to chinese authority,after all,to my knowledge,at that time,there was no such concept as "Taiwanese".(and such concept came into being no more then 15 years ago and was raised by some TIers)




Despite the fact that China was not a signatory to the treaty, this is the document by which Japan definitively relinquished its sovereign claim to Taiwan and no country was identified as a beneficiary, a requirement confirmed by a long tradition of state practice, a leading source of international law.

I guess u know at that time,Taiwan had already been given to China(at that time,it was ROC) many years ago.how could Japan gave up something it didn't have.after all,it is ridiculous to bound a country to some treaty she didn't sign,no matter what execuse it bases on.



However, that is exactly what the KMT did in their first few decades in Taiwan. Schoolchildren were even punished for speaking the Taiwanese language outside of class with their friends during the KMT regime.

sorry,I don't no such a language exists as Taiwanese,most probably,here it refers the MinNanHua,which is a dialect of chinese and commonly used in south china.in your arguement,it seems that it is a different language.there are full of misleading facts in your arguement,I think u are dishonest .



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by suihx
en....quite different from what i know,but here i don't want to cite my materials,caz it won't settle the problem.just use our sense of reason,if the emperor was hesitant to formally annex the island,then why he send his army to conquer the island.as to my knowledge,admiral shilang lead the army of the Qing Empire took taiwan.your arguement is misleading in that it seems ShiLang was the governor of Taiwan and he brought Taiwan into the Qing Empire,which is absolutely not the case.btw:i want to inform u that your ancestors is most probably among "the chinese" in your arguement.


No, Shi Lang was no Taiwanese, nor was he a governor of Taiwan. In fact, before Admiral Shi Lang took the island for the Qing, Taiwan had never been under an administration based in China. The Zheng family had governed Taiwan since 1662, but that was apart and separate from the Chinese Qing Dynasty.

I am not Taiwanese, I am a foreign resident of Taiwan married to a Taiwanese. The fact that most Taiwanese trace at least a part of their ancestry to China is quite irrelevant. That is not the basis for statehood. How many Americans trace their ancestry to Germany, England, France, etc. No one is arguing that the United States ought to be a part of any of those countries.



it is commonplace for rebellions took place in the 18th century in china,in the mainland it was the same,it is absurd u interpret it as a resistance of Taiwanese people to chinese authority,after all,to my knowledge,at that time,there was no such concept as "Taiwanese".(and such concept came into being no more then 15 years ago and was raised by some TIers)


Actually, there was a growing Taiwanese identity during the Japanese occupation, but it was supressed by the subsquent KMT rule over Taiwan. Taiwanese identity is nothing new, but now that Taiwan is free, it is coming to the fore.



I guess u know at that time,Taiwan had already been given to China(at that time,it was ROC) many years ago.how could Japan gave up something it didn't have.after all,it is ridiculous to bound a country to some treaty she didn't sign,no matter what execuse it bases on.


You are referring either to the fact that the KMT accepted the surrender of the Japanese in Taiwan in 1945 and/or the Cairo Declaration. Neither of those are relevant in terms of soveriegnty. Even though the KMT accepted the surrender of the Japanese in Taiwan ON BEHALF of the Allies, it doesn't imply transfer of sovereignty. Otherwise, the sovereignty of North Viet Nam would also be Chinese. Think of all the acceptances of surrender in Europe, and it is obvious that this is an absurd claim. If you are claiming Cairo, that was not a legally binding agreement was it was not ratified. The only way territory can legally be transferred from one state to another is to have it specifically mentioned in a peace treaty. There is no such transfer regarding Taiwan.



sorry,I don't no such a language exists as Taiwanese,most probably,here it refers the MinNanHua,which is a dialect of chinese and commonly used in south china.in your arguement,it seems that it is a different language.there are full of misleading facts in your arguement,I think u are dishonest .


The language spoken as a native language by 70% of the people in Taiwan is known locally as Taiwanese. It is a dialect of Minnanyu, but that is also a language separate and distinct from Mandarin as they are mutually unintellible languages. However, that doesn't change the fact that speakers of Taiwanese were punished for it. My wife was one of them.

You call me dishonest. I think you have been brainwashed by your government. I have lived in China and I know what goes on there. Try reading more varied sources and you will learn that the claim China has to Taiwan is not valid. If they were confident in their claim, they wouldn't have objected to President Chen's proposal to have the ICJ decide the issue, would they?

[edit on 2004/10/18 by ludahai]



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 08:31 AM
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before Admiral Shi Lang took the island for the Qing, Taiwan had never been under an administration based in China. The Zheng family had governed Taiwan since 1662, but that was apart and separate from the Chinese Qing Dynasty.

perhaps I should mention again Taiwan was long under the administration of china,the reason why there was no formal government set is that the population there was too small,the Zheng family was the remanent of the Ming Empire,which was also a dynasty of china.




You are referring either to the fact that the KMT accepted the surrender of the Japanese in Taiwan in 1945 and/or the Cairo Declaration. Neither of those are relevant in terms of soveriegnty. Even though the KMT accepted the surrender of the Japanese in Taiwan ON BEHALF of the Allies, it doesn't imply transfer of sovereignty. Otherwise, the sovereignty of North Viet Nam would also be Chinese. Think of all the acceptances of surrender in Europe, and it is obvious that this is an absurd claim. If you are claiming Cairo, that was not a legally binding agreement was it was not ratified. The only way territory can legally be transferred from one state to another is to have it specifically mentioned in a peace treaty.

there has never been a more ridiculous treaty as the "SanFrasisco treaty",which shows the war isn't over after the enemy surrendered for 7 years and bound those counties which never signed it.here i offer u a link,u can see it yourself,i don't want to translate it(my english is too limited),and I guess u know chinese(which in your opinion,taiwanese).
www.ettoday.com... (it is a Taiwan's website)



The language spoken as a native language by 70% of the people in Taiwan is known locally as Taiwanese. It is a dialect of Minnanyu, but that is also a language separate and distinct from Mandarin as they are mutually unintellible languages. However, that doesn't change the fact that speakers of Taiwanese were punished for it. My wife was one of them.

i guess u should u what makes a language,you have difficulty in understanding other doesn't necessarily mean that u are speaking a different language,otherwise there will be tens of "languages"in the mainland.i quite understand your resentment against KMT,caz I know they are against taiwan's independence.but demonlizing those who support unification can't form a reason for declare independence.




You call me dishonest. I think you have been brainwashed by your government. I have lived in China and I know what goes on there. Try reading more varied sources and you will learn that the claim China has to Taiwan is not valid. If they were confident in their claim, they wouldn't have objected to President Chen's proposal to have the ICJ decide the issue, would they?

i think you have a very deep prejudice against the chinese people,perhaps in your eyes,we are a flock of mob who were totally brainwashed by the CCP and eager to bring doom to the world.but actually,the mainlanders are mostly ordinary people who have a family to support and not intrested
in politics.it is your "President" Chen's contiuously provocation stimulates the nationlism among the chinese people.the chinesemainland objected Chen's proposal caz it is commonsense a province of coutry don't have the right to declare its independence,let alone bring it to the ICJ.besides,can you trust someone who was elected by a "magic bullet" and often eats his own words?




[edit on 2004/10/18 by ludahai]

[edit on 18-10-2004 by suihx]



posted on Oct, 18 2004 @ 09:12 AM
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This quibbling over the minutia is all very interesting and everything but Taiwan is Chinese not American.

The western powers dismembered China and nicked major parts of her territory (most of which has only recently gone back). Just because China didn't have formal boundaries as we in the west had does not mean Taiwan isn't hers.

Simmilarly to Tibet the Chinese can point to maps thousands of years old showing these places quite clearly as part of China. This is the fact of the matter, not propaganda or fantasy. (The British museum has one for a start)

......and IMO it certainly isn't worth toasting the world and humanity over either.

But I believe that isn't going to happen anyway.

China and Taiwan are growing ever closer no matter what the rest of the world thinks. The more the US attempts to stall this the more US tech will simply end up being transferred in the end.

Unity is, IMHO, inevitable in the end.



posted on Oct, 19 2004 @ 04:50 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Simmilarly to Tibet the Chinese can point to maps thousands of years old showing these places quite clearly as part of China. This is the fact of the matter, not propaganda or fantasy. (The British museum has one for a start)

......and IMO it certainly isn't worth toasting the world and humanity over either.

But I believe that isn't going to happen anyway.

China and Taiwan are growing ever closer no matter what the rest of the world thinks. The more the US attempts to stall this the more US tech will simply end up being transferred in the end.

Unity is, IMHO, inevitable in the end.


Many Chinese maps of the Ming Dynasty didn't even have Taiwan on them, much less include Taiwan was part of China's territory. Furthermore, just because you include territory on a map, it doesn't mean that it is yours. China includes several territories on its maps that don't belong to it (including a good chunk of Arunachal Pradesh, which belongs to India.) In the 1620s, the Ming Dynasty specifically told the Dutch that Taiwan lay beyond its territory and in the early 1870s, the Qing told the Japanese that eastern Taiwan lay beyond its control.

Western powers didn't take Taiwan, China surrendered it to Japan after it was a province for only ten years. There is no treaty that returned it to China. PERIOD!



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 03:44 AM
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Western powers didn't take Taiwan, China surrendered it to Japan after it was a province for only ten years. There is no treaty that returned it to China.

your words irritated me,sir.every chinese knows the Qing Empire was forced to give Taiwan to Japan after it lost the war against Japan's invasion.then during the WW2,after 8 years of war and the lost of tens of thousands of lives,we finally brought it back.nowadays,the UN,US,Japan(who signed that ridiculous treaty)..every country in the world recognizes that Taiwan is part of china.it was also written in the chinese constitution.(both PRC and the ROC)
if u are a chinese,then u are a betrayer(a "hang-jian").if u are not,sir,please mind your own business.
don't tell me u are a "Taiwanese",such race exists only in your imagination.



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 04:26 AM
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I must say, it is great to see both sides of the story here.

As for my own opinion on the subject.......

Let's just say that America does not support communism, and above all values freedom.

So IMHO it would be really cool if Taiwan would let us build some military bases over there...
I'd like to see China try to invade then.



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 06:42 AM
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Full Independence to Taiwan stick it to the Reds!
Taiwan needs to wait until the USA has rebulit Afghanistan and Iraq and then the USA will have more manpower to win the war against china.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by suihx
your words irritated me,sir.every chinese knows the Qing Empire was forced to give Taiwan to Japan after it lost the war against Japan's invasion.then during the WW2,after 8 years of war and the lost of tens of thousands of lives,we finally brought it back.nowadays,the UN,US,Japan(who signed that ridiculous treaty)..every country in the world recognizes that Taiwan is part of china.it was also written in the chinese constitution.(both PRC and the ROC)
if u are a chinese,then u are a betrayer(a "hang-jian").if u are not,sir,please mind your own business.
don't tell me u are a "Taiwanese",such race exists only in your imagination.


China's words irritate me when they claim this island as their own, and it irritates many Taiwanese people. Japan and China fought a war over KOREA, Japan didn't attack China in 1894. China didn't abide by a prior agreement with Japan that stated that it had to notify Tokyo if it was going to send troops into the Korean Peninsula. Sure, Japan was itching for a fight, but China did break the agreement on Korea.

Taiwan was NOT returned to China following the war. Read the san francisco peace treaty. Japan surrendered the island, but NOT to China. There is no mention in the treaty at all that Taiwan is to be given to China, PERIOD!

I am not Taiwanese or Chinese, but I live in Taiwan, my wife is Taiwanese, and my daughter is Taiwanese. It is my home and the home of my family. It most certainly is my business.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by curme
I say keep the status quo. All countries involved are not ready to address the outcome, whatever it may be, right now. The world has more on it's plate. Sorry Taiwan, you have it pretty good right now, hold tight a little longer (20, 50, 100 years?). Don't ruin what you want on a gamble that may not pay off, and would be damaging for everyone.

EDIT: The US created this problem, Nixon was smart enough to try to fix our mistakes. Maybe we were wrong about this thing? Maybe it's time to find a graceful way out?

[edit on 24-7-2004 by curme]


What the heck are you talking about? Are you convinced the U.S. is at the heart of every global heartburn? Shoot, you don't even know how long the non-communist Chinese have been on the island after being routed by the Reds, it's not surprising you don't know what the deal is.

Darn, curme, I gotta hangnail; what American administration do I blame??


(I hope you catch on to the fact that I'm having fun, curme, don't blow a gasket. If I call you an idiot-par-none, you'll know I'm getting serious! That won't even happen if you aren't my ex! :lol



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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Let's just say that America does not support communism, and above all values freedom.

Actually I would say those statements are rather contradictory.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by krazykomrade



Let's just say that America does not support communism, and above all values freedom.

Actually I would say those statements are rather contradictory.


Why would you say that?

explain why you think that way.

Its one or the other Communism or freedom, in other words, Communism=keep your mouth shut, as, Freedom=say what you want.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 05:17 PM
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SminkeyPinkey
This quibbling over the minutia is all very interesting and everything but Taiwan is Chinese not American.

No one said it was, the US knows they dont own Taiwan, But the 2 countries are alike. Like the ol' saying goes "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".



SP
Unity is, IMHO, inevitable in the end.

No it isn't.



SP
China and Taiwan are growing ever closer no matter what the rest of the world thinks. The more the US attempts to stall this the more US tech will simply end up being transferred in the end.

What news are you reading? OR do they only tell you the good news in the EU. Because everything i'm seeing says that tension has been and still is rising. I keep hearing more and more about China aquiring weapons and Taiwan buy defence weapons.
Taiwan spending 18 billion (USD) for defesive weapons



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 10:02 PM
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As a Taiwanese, here is my opinon on the topic:

1) If reunification is a must, then you, china, had better believe that you have to reform to a similar system to Taiwan or the United States. NOBODY is going to block google.com from me. NOBODY is going to take away my home and then build a dam or olympic stadium on top of it to only pay me 100 RMB as compensation. NOBODY is going to shoot me in the head or jail me for 10 years for speaking ill about the goverment. I can stand right here in Taiwan and say "I hate Chen Sui Bian" and I WILL NOT be arrested. That is FREEDOM.

I am not against Re-unification. I am against Re-unification with an Authoritarian government.

2) In the posts I often read: Well, let the chinese people all vote. That gives China the majority 98% Yes on reunification. DUH. Well, how about this? Since chinese in china cannot vote for their president, hell, they can't even vote in a beauty pagent most likely, why don't you let the people of Taiwan vote. Hmmm.... Novel idea. Afterall, we are already use to the "process" of voting. We don't want to teach ALL chinese people "what" voting is and "how" to do it. Takes too much time and under the Authoritarian government, they wouldn't understand the concept.

3) You claim that you are liberating us? From what?! Are you people mentally capable of fathoming the fact that people on Taiwan are HAPPY??? We are not kept in a "cage" as china calls it, like prisoners. Hell, people from CHINA are trying to emmigrate TO TAIWAN. There is a waiting LIST! Now, I don't know what kind of cage that is but sure sounds like a good one to be in if people in china are trying to emmigrate to "the cage." Maybe we have some fun stuff over here huh? You bet. We can start with freedom of speech.

4) Many chinese deny that Taiwan has a "government." Okay, I don't want to argue with cretins so I'll call the "goverment" a "bunch of people running around." Now the "bunch of people running around" have created one of the most prosperous economies not to mention democracy in Asia. The envy of many Asian neighbors. For a "bunch of people running around" on a small island, I would say, that's not bad at all.

5) You say you want to reunify peacefully yet you shoot missles over our heads. Hmmmm..... Don't have to be socrates or a rocket scientist to know that a "threat missle" is mutually exclusive to peace.

6) I have heard the "Let China take Taiwan" argument. Who cares? It doesn't affect me! You will when you go to your local U.S. Best Buy to purchase electronics and that $600.00 HP computer is suddenly $4,000.00. Why? Oh because Taiwan manufactures the majority of computer components for Televisions, Electronics in general and Computers. So why is the computer so much?! Well, the factory that makes the motherboard has been bombed. Thus, they can't ship the motherboards to HP. Thus, HP doesn't know when they can complete production of the comptuers so the ones that are out now, we'll just jack up the price. Oh and if the Taiex (Taiwan stock exchange) goes down, that WILL affect the economies of the world.

Enough ranting... I'm going to get on google.com to search for stuff.... can you do that? If you can, your not in China =)

Oh by the way the PRC BANNED doreamon... HAHA a cute little cartoon featuring a blue robotic cat with a propellor on his head. It's EVIL. HAHAHAH. Time for the Chairman Mao's learning hour children. Featuring.... The dancing little red book! Yeah!!!



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