Qur'an burning free speech in America?

I think its important to make a distinction between freedom of speech and freedom from consequence. The law may not prevent the burning of religious texts (although for the betterment of society I personaly think that such a law would be a good idea) and may well support such persons as would partake in such an activity.
However, there is nothing in the constitution which frees a man from the consequences of his free speech. If some pastor in the states happened to think that all British people were scum, and did something to antagonise Brits, and I happened to be in the vicinity, I would express my freedom of speech, all over his face. Consequence is not something you can protect someone from in law.

Now , where those consequences are lethal , and happen in another nation, well thats terribly sad , and theres not an awful lot that can be done about that. But there is one thing I think it is important to observe.
In burning that Qur'an, the pastor has taken a step, on behalf of an entire religion, because pastors speak as the voice of God, or so we are told. He took a step, not just on his own, but has pulled an entire religion with him, into the brink of an extremely thorny sociopolitical problem. He has done so without any regard for consequence, and now will be extremely butthurt that his actions will (rightly or wrongly) result in increased danger for those who worship in the same way he does.

It may not be his responsibility that people are dying as an indirect result of his actions, but he certainly could have thought about it a little harder , and maybe taken the moral high ground, by refusing to resort to such ugly tactics in the propeganda battle (entry into which is a pretty low thing for a pastor to do in any case) between his faith and another.
Personaly I would just as soon shoot him for stupidity and leave it at that. Freedom of expression, freedom of speech, is EXTREMELY important, but there comes a point where you have to respect that freedom of speech enough not to use it to callously enrage people. He knew there would be consequences, and he knew people would probably be hurt, but went ahead anyway. Wether he was free to do what he did in law is one thing, but wether he was moraly correct to do so is quite another. Regardless of the word of law, and speaking as a man of faith myself, I find him, his actions, and his church community guilty of the worst faults of character and attitude as Christians. I hope that God will forgive him, because I personaly will find that as hard as I always do when someone tarnishes the name of my faith .

Book burning is stupid. That said anyone should have the right to burn any book they want religious or not.
It just makes you look stupid, lacking the ability to argue against what is said in the book.

I personally think the Bible and the Koran are retard, not going to go out and waste my time, looking like a jackass, to light them on fire.

Books of all major religions should be burned regularly. It will serve both to expose the extremists, and to desensitise the adherents to such acts, ultimately making them more tolerant. It is also a great way to exercise rights to freedom of speech, because it is when the act is controversial, and we do not back down, that the freedom of speech is truly upheld and enforced.
That is something that needs to be done in current society plagued by political correctness and stupid hate speech laws.

reply to post by broahes


I had a full paragraph ready but it seems you nailed the point better than me.
So i will say, "Yeah what he/she said".

Originally posted by camouflaged
Any burning of any religious book is wrong, and killing people over is stupid... two wrongs dont make a right

See the way I look as it. ITS A BOOK.

The people at fault are the cavemen that believe it is the word of god. Yes its foolish to burn these books purely for the sake of offending someone, however it doesnt change the fact that ALL holy books are basically fiction, people may not be ready to accept that but it IS A FACT. (the only reason no scientist has gone ahead & publicly proven this is because of THE CAVEMEN!)

We further compound the problem by not ridiculing these people onsite, ALL OF US. There some kind of myth that religion has to be respected and thats the reason it has any power. It is garbage, we all know. Do you think if the Catholic church REALLY believed in god they would put so much effort into protecting pedophiles? Or if the muslim leaders truely beleive in Allah they would be sitting on mountains of wealth while their people lived in the dark ages? It doesnt take a genius to see the obvious reality of religion, it was what they used before we had "governments".

You only have to look at the people in charge of the religion to see how "real" is actually is.

Originally posted by markosity1973
America, when does a message of hate, ignorance and intolerance become freedom of speech?

It is time that the good people of your nation stood up and said enough is enough. Freedom of speech is nothing but a veil that cowards hide behind to commit terrible acts and get away with it. You gotta have some sort of boundaries.

Who gets to say what we can speak of and what we cant...........how long do you nthink it would take the government to turn this against us, making disagreeing with the government "inciting"?

Screw them if they cant take a joke

I don't agree with burning the Quran because I know it offends a great number of people. But to excuse acts of murder and violence as retaliation is madness and inconsistent with a free society. Can you imagine if every instance of flag burning of a Western country resulted in similar events?

reply to post by Maslo


The problem with that is humanity.

Humans are not immortal, meaning the next generation would rise up and fight the system.
Humans are also aggressive and impulsive, which means there will always be violence.

It would also have the effect of making extremists even more extreme, turning them into a resistance movement.

Keep in mind, historically, a hyperviolent minority can quickly take power from a less aggressive majority.

reply to post by LikeDuhObviously


I disagree with you. I understand why people crack the #s when someone disrespects ones religion, but why provoke it? This pastor is going against everything he has been taught to believe in. He needs to stop pulling bullsh!t stunts like this. Everyone is entitled to believe in something if they choose, whether you believe in it or not. The thing is Islam take this stuff very serious, and as much as I do hate extremists etc, I still have respect for another cultures religion. Not all of them are bad people. The same as in western countries, there are good and bad eggs.

I agree with you about the book burning though, it is stupid.

As a Christian, this is interesting to me. a man burns a quran and people want to hurt them and kill them.

Had someone burned a Bible in my presence not only would i feel saddened, but i would feel more saddened for the person who shunned God away.
In these two situations given..the responses are completely opposite.

but to answer the original question. no. the 1st ammendment should no way be altered.

I think the pastor proved his point. Where are the Christian fundamentalists going around killing people for the pisschrist exhibit? Where are the dead people/threats every time Family Guy, South Park, The Simpsons, and Futurama make fun of Christianity?

reply to post by Serizawa


I don't suppose that you would equate the burning of draft cards with what happened at Kent State then? This is political correctness run amok. Give offense? Hurt someones feelings? Awww, puddin' quit it! When we worry more about PC than what is right or wrong then we have already started down a path where freedom will be as historic and quaint as the edsel.

Originally posted by steve704
As a Christian, this is interesting to me. a man burns a quran and people want to hurt them and kill them.

Had someone burned a Bible in my presence not only would i feel saddened, but i would feel more saddened for the person who shunned God away.
In these two situations given..the responses are completely opposite.

but to answer the original question. no. the 1st ammendment should no way be altered.

edit on 5-4-2011 by steve704 because: (no reason given)

Although I dont not disagree with you, 150 - 200 years ago this would not have been true. Muslims are just like christians, just a couple of hundered years behind. (probably because they have the oil).

Christians always seem to ignore that everything these extremist muslims do now was pretty much a standard part of chritianity "back in the day". (more so that in Islam today).

IMO both gods are equaly imaginary.

reply to post by S3ns1bl3

There some kind of myth that religion has to be respected and thats the reason it has any power. It is garbage

Just like the myth around the first amendment?

If we use that form of reasoning its all garbage, the Constitution, the Bible, it makes no difference.

The values of any society are based on the respect of "garbage" or the alternative, application of violence, aka ubermensch. Even then the ubermensch comes up with his own "garbage" that the people "respect" out of terror.

In the real world, the vast majority of the human species on this planet follow religion. You can't disregard it out of hand due to some elitist viewpoint that the world is ran by cavemen. If you want to take part in this world and make it a better place you have to interact with it. Condemning 90% of the species as being cavemen does not realistically help anyone, but make the elitists look impractical, ignorant, and living in a fantasy world. So who is really living in a cave?

Oh PLEASE.

Let me just clarify before hand:

The "pastor" who did this is an attention whore and got what he wanted. I don't believe in burning holy books or antagonizing anyone using religion as a weapon.

That said, if you draw a FREAKING CARTOON Muslims will riot and behead and kill.

Putting a limit on free speech makes speech not free. We tolerate burning of bibles and our flag but we don't want the muslims upset.... they may do something CRAZY. That religion needs a good b***h slap.

Unless they know that the idiocy will no longer be tolerated, they will continue to be douchebags. NOW, how do I feel about the pastor who did that. SHAME ON YOU! It just isn't right! Just because you could, doesn't mean you should.

Unfortunately intolerance is a sad part of our society. As tolerant people we must come together to peacefully oppose it, but we cannot become hypocrtical or selective when we deem who should have freedom of speech and what can be said under freedom of speech.

reply to post by S3ns1bl3


story goes like this. all those years ago men weren't listening the the words of Christ. they were listening to their own hearts and understandings. they were also listening to other men giving them orders.

Today, the Bible rule the hearts of men. same as the quran does, but you will get a very different response in burning the quran.

yes, things were different in the past. and the very scary realization is ' why ' does burning a quran lead to anger for many ' today ' ?

today.. when so many claim the book is peace.

The act of burning a Koran in and of itself is free speech.

However, if you use that free speech in concert with media attention knowingly for the purpose of inciting violence, that is no longer free speech.

The example of Terry Jones's Koran burning while the media reported, is in my opinion not free speech but reckless endangerment. As he knew that publicizing his actions had the foreseeable consequences of causing violence in the middle east. He did so with full knowledge of what could happen if he did, and that is why it's not freedom of speech, but a criminal act.

reply to post by steve704


It wasn't that long ago, even in North America, where burning a Bible would have equaled a death sentence.

Also keep in mind how the Crusades started, over the burning of a church, and it lead to over 100 years of war and that was even after the Muslims helped rebuild the same church.

Societies progress, but its not something that can be done by forcing it down someones throat or antagonizing the other society.

We have to deal practically with real world issues in ways that are progressive and positive. Thats the biggest issue people on here don't understand, whether its the atheists or the anti Islamists. The Muslims, who number over 1 billion, arn't going anywhere. They are the largest and fastest growing religion on earth and we have to deal with them. Either we can be practical and preserve peace or we can act holier than thou and have us a nice old gigadeath war in a generation or so.