Qur'an burning free speech in America?

reply to post by SpeachM1litant
As an atheist/agnostic (I am a tortured soul!) you could burn, defecate on and flush every religious tome and I would encourage it. I am sorry that so many depend on fantasies spun out by ancient ignorants as to primal causes in order to generate meaning for their existence.
The fact that a burnt book causes homicidal mayhem is proof of the idiocy that the believers possess and the falsity of those beliefs. The fact that the contempt expressed by this act is done by another differently insane zealot confirms the rot in that temple.
I believe that.
I also believe that the only way to control the viral aspect of these proselytizers is to have the ability to openly debate (Which also means being nasty and disrespectful.) about these moronic and despicable approaches to philosophy. These are control paradigms expressed by the weak minded (Perhaps due to their inculcation.) who hope to raise themselves up in a vindictive, small-minded, punk, god's eyes.
The Amendment for Free Speech comes at a cost. It was designed to make you uncomfortable. It is not the Kum-by-yah Amendment. You religious lackeys and those who believe in universal harmony should STFU.
If you STFU and stay away from public debate and stop trying to convince us of your stunted beliefs the relatively sane will leave you TFA.
Quit attempting to impress on us your values. We hate it and will not be convinced by your bullying attempts to defend your nut-baggery. You have self-imposed impoverished minds and we do not want to stoop to your level of inferior, childish thoughts.
As to the muslims, how good. how substantial is a religion that doesn't allow contrary cartoons by non-muslims to be published? Ass-hats all around for the 72 virgins. With all that time in the desert you would think that they would have seen the muslim concepts as being a screen for conquest, control and war until there are no more enemies. Talk about a social disease!
Christians are no better and their progenitors the jews are genocidal maniacs.
That takes care of most the Western dummies. The rest of the world will have to pummel their own brands of moronicity.
This was brought to you by WHAT AMENDMENT?
Thanks for allowing a fully open debate.

reply to post by boaby_phet
Your reply isn't about speech, it's about actions.
This amendment doesn't apply to your posting.
STFU.

Of course it's protected by the 1st amendment.
And, the day it isn't we have truely lost our country.
Just a final thought, the 1st amendment applies to American citizens, we have no need to change for the rest of the world....maybe it's time they play catch up and join us instead of being mired in the past.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


I dont believe burning a Qur'an is freedom of speech, that's abuse of a religion and should not be tolerated. This s America that was originally built by christians but the rights to be free and believe in what you want. Speaking your mind, protests, writing news paper articles is freedom of speech and harmless. Burning religious books is like holding your middle finger up to the other guy and asking for trouble. Religion is a serious topic and should be respected by all no matter what religion they are. Im agnostic, but I respect everyones belief as a belief system is not merely a fact but an opinion, an idea, a belief. So who's right and who's wrong!!!

Originally posted by Boxman
Is Afghanistan the only place we have an embassy that's surrounded by Muslims?

Are Afghan muslims naturally more violence-prone than other Muslims?

There's something seriously wrong with the ENTIRE story.

Yes, there is, as I've said in about 3 previous posts, I smell a P.R. stunt designed to get the 'debate' on crushing the 1st amendment into the MS and to attempt to swing it in the way of a predetermined End Goal.

wtf is this thread like ats gone haywire - every "other" thread is about fighting injustice and oppression and the "man" but this one is yeah everyday legions of America haters are on some channel burning our flags spitting on pictures of our president or taking a dump on the bible.

So you have a guy with enough balls to fire back and you guys are all up his ass about it. Lame

The only reason I wouldn't burn a Koran is not because it's wrong but because I feel pity for those who've enslaved themselves to religions created by men to control them - allowing you to continue to oppress yourselves is good enough for me.

I do not know this pastor or his take on christianity but as a christian I will now sincerely appologise for his actions and humbly ask forgiveness for any offence his actions may have led to. NOW where is the appologies from the moderate muslims for their religeous brothers actions. I wait with bated breath but do not hold out much hope. It's quite alright for you to lambast this pastor as not being your type of christian, that is your free right of speech, but let me assure you to ALL muslims christians are still infidels and looked on as such. Don't believe me! Try to court a muslim daughter. Probably 1 in a million moderate muslims would allow it, but the overwhelming majority would rather kill their own daughters than let that happen. The whole world keeps shouting for the white man to appologize for this sleight or that slieght or you enslaved us, raped our country, we want an appology or better still a few billions in reperations paid for decades. When moderate muslims actively step up to the plate and condemn and help to bring these minority sects to justice they have not got any rights over me or my country. Their silence is as always deafening. I am not talking about singular muslims on this site or any other. I'm talking about the religeous heads and fathers.

I would like someone to show me where any group of Christian people killed many others - particularly of another country and/or religion - when a Bible was burned. And pay attention....I DONT MEAN protesting with words or legal action, I MEAN KILLING...

Oh, there may be an isolated incident here and there, or even a small group of several that did something like that, but I don't remember any large scale problem when a Bible was burned. So, what does all that boil down too? In that sense, free speech works(ed), and any attempted inciting of a group of Christians didn't result in burning, killing, and new "laws".

No, that shows who and what is wrong here. If I was asked I would have strongly suggested this Pastor to NOT do it, as we aren't dealing with rational people that believe their version of the Quaran gives them the right to kill others like this. But he did no killing. It is the enemy that is "radical" Islamic terrorists that are offended and want to retaliate. But I have news for you all. They want(ed) to that long before this Quaran burning was ever thought about.

Not to mention look at the MEDIA coverage of this. If ANY Constitutional right needs to be re-examined, its definitely "freedom" of the press. I mean if free speech has responsibilities and accountabilities to go with, the dingbat agenda driven media 'stars' need to have their motives examined, and now!

Originally posted by broahes
Reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

burning a book didn't lead to anyones death, people with a deep mental disturbance did. If someone goes out and kills someone because of something I say or do.. Not my fault. Period.. Anyone that doesn't understand that can gladly line up and hand over their freedoms.. I'll keep minen thanks.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

it is wrong, it is called inciting violence and it is a crime in the uk. If a radio producer says the president should be killed and some loon goes and kills him then he has played a role in their murder. As a pastor he has a public duty and as a pastor he should no better. Is this man preaching love...no
The man is an attention hoe

Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Christians murdering people?? I know an occasional nut will kill an abortion dr. but I would love to see a source in the last 50 years that has a group of so called Christians murdering people because of their religious beliefs. It's possibly but I haven't heard of this happening in modern day society. And the Bible is burnt by all groups of people all the time.

are you for real. what about the invasion of iraq and afganistan
BUSH WAR GOD: "GOD told me goto war"
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by xBWOMPx


And so what if it's someone sticking their middle finger up to somebody else? That doesn't mean the other person has to react in a violent manner and give the antagonist what he/she wanted. People offend and annoy people all the time, that doesn't give them the right to murder those people, especially when the murderers are so-called religious practitioners.

Anybody who reacts in a violent manner because their religious beliefs were insulted imo isn't really truly religious. And anybody who says otherwise doesn't practice a peaceful religion.

Religion isn't about material things. It's more about an immaterial spiritual growth and all that fancy crap.

reply to post by crayzeed


Moderate Muslims should not have to apologize for the actions of a group that they do not consider themselves to be apart of. That'd be like me apologizing on behalf of all of the white people because some neo-nazi's or KKK members committed hate crimes.

Sure it's a kind and peaceful gesture, but it isn't one that I particularly believe to be warranted in any way.

This is America. You can burn whatever you want, be it a book or a house full of people.

reply to post by loOranks


Its not an issue of surrender, its an issue of stability, which will prevent an arms build up.

As oil production wanes, prices are going to skyrocket, this means the Middle East will have a huge influx of money over the next three decades. At the same time the current uprisings in the Middle East could pave the way for an Arab Union. An Arab Union with tons of money could turn lots of that money into an arms build up.

If we maintain good relations and make them dependent on us for security needs, like Europe, we won't have to worry about them.

There's a much bigger picture to look at. Its not about surrendering, but about security and stability.

reply to post by arbitrarygeneraiist
All the gestures I would like to see is anything but the utter complacency by the maderste muslims. It is no answer at all to say they do not recognise these sects but in reality their whole religion is made up of these sects. If you had a KKK member living next door to you and you saw them commiting any atrocities surely you would stand up and be vocal against these people even though you are not in anyway part of their world. I will give you one example only. Not a half a mile from where I live a muslim father and son cut off their daughter/sisters nose(thereby making her unattractive to any man were their words) because she refused an arranged marriage. Till that happened they were known as a moderate family. All the muslim families in the area said nothing. They're all moderates as well. Now I could understand if this was Iran,Afghanistan or Pakistan but this is England!!!! Middle England at that. No no the dangerous sects can only be emancipated or erradicated by the whole of Islam. If you want pure proof of that statement please look at ALL the interference of western forces in Islamic countries. No matter how many christian men die trying to defend the lowly and poor muslims(thats a statement not derrogatory) in the end they will not be thanked. The only salvation for the problem can only come from all muslims and that does include the moderate ones.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by loOranks

 

Its not an issue of surrender, its an issue of stability, which will prevent an arms build up.

As oil production wanes, prices are going to skyrocket, this means the Middle East will have a huge influx of money over the next three decades. At the same time the current uprisings in the Middle East could pave the way for an Arab Union. An Arab Union with tons of money could turn lots of that money into an arms build up.

If we maintain good relations and make them dependent on us for security needs, like Europe, we won't have to worry about them.

There's a much bigger picture to look at. Its not about surrendering, but about security and stability.

I agree with your assessment in general and it's nice to see someone get closer to the real reasons for these invasions and occupations.

But more than stability and security we really end up with hegemony. And empire.

And not just oil and strategic bases, but huge financial opportunitys for insiders and aiding Israel.

And deeper yet and at the top of the pyramid giving yet even more money and control to the tiny Cabal of puppeteers that pull the strings of it all.

But thanks though for your breath of honesty at least attempting to cut through the bs freedom/liberation nonsense and getting to the bigger picture.

As for the' pastor' perhaps he can volunteer and go over in person and share his 'beliefs'. I STILL think it was a cheap PR stunt for political reasons having more to do with swaying U.S. opinion for undermining the 1st amend. and queching criticism especially of the war, than anything else.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


It is surrendering. A practical and perhaps necessary surrender in the way you described it, but it is a surrender nonetheless. A surrender to maintain stability and security, as you put it. But, who's to say that a tenuous stability would even last once the supposed Middle Eastern union become a world power to be reckoned with? Who's to say that once they have the power, they wouldn't just start a conflict with a weakened US who had to surrender certain freedoms and lifestyles in the first place?

If the US as a world power has taught me anything it is that world powers enjoy the power that they possess and that they fear losing it. The US is somewhat of a paranoid nation and because of that we choose to police the world. It has happened with world powers in the past as well, so if there was a middle eastern union that rose to world prominence, they may very well be the same as the US is now.

reply to post by crayzeed


Being vocal is different from apologizing for the actions that one did not even commit. I was talking about being apologetic.

If I had a neighbor who was a member of the KKK and I saw them committing a hate crime, I would want them to be hauled off to GITMO.

However, if a person does not want to be vocal, then it really isn't that person's duty to be so, especially if said person isn't even part of the fundamentalist group who is inciting such violence.

Besides, I don't even think this is a sincere issue about actually wanting an apology or wanting moderate Muslims to be vocal against fundamentalism, it seems more petty than that. It seems to me like it's just more disdain and dislike for the Islamic religion in how the post was presented, only it was expressed more subtly, almost veiled.

I think the following should happen.

There out to be a series of Koran burnings in football stadiums throughout the US. Anybody who likes watching Korans burn can go to the stadiums.

At the same time, in the Muslim world, they can pack stadiums full of people who want to kill Americans and/or Jews because of the Koran burnings. We can even promise to offer up some real live Americans and/or Jews as human sacrifice to satisfy the Muslim mobs.

Just as the Korans are about to burn and the Americans are about to get killed, fighter jets can drop massive bombs on the stadiums killing everybody inside. We can even take out a Justin Bieber concert while we are at it.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


But Justin Beiber's heavenly voice is the only hope we have at true world peace.