survival -- plan and prepare? or LOOT and BOOT?

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posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by Butterbone
 


I would be willing to bet that a lot of the people claiming they will go gungho and rob and kill everyone in the country is also a part of the zombie letter armies running amok on the net now that you mention it.... What better way to divide us than through paranoia of each other eh? I never thought about that before now...
edit on Wed, 06 Apr 2011 21:37:21 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:50 PM
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There seems to be 2 types of "looters" as I see it.


1. A person who would after a complete breakdown comes onto a deserted Wal-Greens breaks in to get needed medicine or supplies. It's a business that is broken and deserted and has supplies you need.

2. A person who figures to loot what they need from other people's supplies. Whether that means killing then or just trying to be stealthy and steal it.

Type #1 I can't fault to much........

Type #2 I think will make my life easier because unlike those #1 types, I don't have to go searching for goods.
The #2 people will be bringing stuff to my house and when they try to steal from me they will find it a poor decision. One of us won't walk away and to the victor goes the spoils.

Since I chose to prepare ahead of time I most likely will be better fed, better rested and better equipped to deal with that #2 person.........



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by Expat888
Hmm.. Interesting thread.. The mindsets exhibited here show exactly why western society is collapsing .. Rather than uniting and helping each other its devil take all and human life holds no value..
And a stable society cannot be built on such foundation..


Actually I think you have it backwards...It is our “compassion for our fellow man” that has created the untenable financial/resource shortages and pending collapse. Time to stop this nonsense!


The key to sustainable living is letting the world reach it’s natural equilibrium between the local population and the environment absent the intervention and machinations of governments or groups to “engineer” or “regulate” balance.

We have made the issues worse IMO when it comes to resource competition by providing “aid” to struggling nations and people in the name of “good” or “humanity”. It does little good to send food aid to Haiti or other places in fact it is even worse in the case of individuals because for the majority rather than the temporary helping hand it becomes a lifestyle. How many generations of Haitians have lived off of foreign aid? Individuals that grow up on welfare and with handouts tend to reproduce early and create yet more offspring to feed the cycle. As for racial advantage or affirmative action; how many generations have milked it with no change (Perhaps even making the situation worse statistically as far as success goes if you consider crime, employment, welfare, out of wedlock births and incarceration rates as a measure of it!) Aren’t we seeing the pattern here?

I am not a religious person but the “give a man a fish thing” rings so true…

I have seen first-hand countries in which the people have become dependent on aid and assistance from foreign governments. All the aid has done is enable the people to have procreated way past the point of providing for themselves in their region.

I honestly could care less if children are starving in Africa as it is not my responsibility to feed them just like it is not for some third party be it an individual or government to limit my access to resources or take my wealth to do so. If I want to give to a charity, I will give to one that solves problems not creates more of them. I am all for helping the helpless; however, helping the lazy and clueless is something else altogether.

If we did not sustain these populations (and individuals) with aid and just let nature take its course like I do here on the farm with livestock when I don’t have enough fodder the problem would never have surfaced in the first place.

A struggling and hungry heard in nature cannot reproduce quickly. It may sound harsh and cruel and unfair but life is all of those things.

The key to the issue of resource scarcity (that and some quest for “equality” are the root of all our issues) is the opposite of intervention IMO it is the absence of it so people will have to suffer the consequences of their poor choices. Perhaps if people had to suffer watching their offspring die horribly they would no longer produce more than they can sustain.

We all know where babies come from and to create more than one can provide for with his/her own access to resources is the most selfish and inhumane act I can fathom. If one does not have enough resources to satisfy their own needs then they need to be, either smart enough, driven enough or violent enough (likely all three) to procure them or one will die – it’s fairly simple.

That applies to the individual, a family group, a village, a city, nation or the world itself. We (all of those groups) are not created equal and to force it through some arbitrary desire for the common good is actually a horrible force for evolution of the species.

Not all people (or groups of people) are as intelligent, physically gifted or driven to excel. If we were there would be no words for excellence – there can be only one valedictorian, one winner etc. Our society is engineering competition out of our young…
Likewise not all people are graced with a favorable geography at birth – some places are harsh and should have low populations. Yet, we provide aid and in so doing make life more bearable and then comes procreation to add to the cycle.

Compassion is good, charity is nice but to do it to the point we are not only sustaining and indefinitely supporting the weak, stupid and the lazy we are doing so without imposing any sort of restrictions. Why should people on welfare/public support be able to reproduce and not only that be rewarded for it with more money at the expense of the others?

We have taken the role of the indulgent and understanding parent who mitigates on a regular basis the poor decisions of our children without the opposite and equally important role of the rule/boundary setting parent who imposes limits on children who demonstrate the inability to solve their own problems. A family with only the former would soon be bankrupt both morally and financially.

Supporting the weak and lazy at the expense of the driven and strong is antithetical to nature and why we are in the current predicament.

Nature is a powerful force and once we reach the tipping point the earth will cull the human population to the correct size (this is likely closer than we think)– in the interim some will thrive some will wither and suffer…its simply nature.

Again, many think me cruel for this view; however, in the end it is nature in action and there is in my opinion nothing more perfect than nature and its own ability to manage and regulate its resources.

In the end I deal with what I can affect, which in my case is the 40 acres I live on and the newly acquired 100 that I will pay for in the fall after I sell my fat feeders to the market.

Is that more than I "need"? Most probably, but that is not for others to decide…

Like Fararcher stated this country was formed by people driven to succeed not by propping up the stupid lazy and incompetent.

We cannot afford to continue down this road!



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 11:17 PM
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In a TEOTWAWKI event i will salvage/loot anything i can from government sites. I already have maps on what i have found and where the government stores it.

Lesser events are on a case by case bases.

I will clean house on the homes of the dead or missing(if someone abandons there home its imposable to tell if they are not dead.)

If you are raiding and stealing from the living i will be waiting.
Hope you sleep light because i will hit you at O-dark 30 some night and loot everything you have and i mean everything your shirt, pants, and your boots.
I figure there will be enough thieves raiders and other misbegotten types to supply me with a lot of goodies.

Any neo-government or paramilitary groups needs to fear trying to restart government without the people permission/vote.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by hawkiye
 


I'm sorry I didn't hear about the government illegally taking peoples firearms. When and where did that happen?


During Katrina, they illegally took guns and were sued over it and lost too.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 07:06 AM
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In explanation of my previous reply.. Having assisted in war zones and disasters for over 40+ years along with observation of western society over the years a few points to make..
1. The welfare state in the west does not work. - give a man a fish he eats for a day teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime.

2. Changes in government / regime do not always result in the total collapse of society - the former ussr and east germany both examples of governments that changed without their societies collapsing into anarchy. Nations rise and fall thats life..

In regard to a total shtf scenario
1. The majority of the population in western countries wont survive - to fat, lazy , stupid with the me first entitlement mentality ..

2. Most will die either in the event itself or soon after due to disease, starvation or killing each other over scraps or useless material items like ipods, televisions etc..

As to the survivors... May whatever deities they believe in have mercy on them. A few points to consider for life after..
1. Stockpiles wont last forever you will have to be able to farm, fish, hunt to survive.

2. Establishing communities will be essential - no man is an island..
For a short time the lone survivor may fare ok however for humanity to continue it will be necessary to have communities.

Its good to plan / prepare for an event - that should include long term after the event years not just months..

Hope this makes sense my english is rusty but these are a few of the things that led to my previous reply..

Just because of a disaster / shtf doesnt mean one should lose ones humanity regardless of their social status disasters have a way of making everyone equal.. Lastly there's already enough misery in the world... Why add more to it ? The person you shoot at may even be one of your fellow ats members.. Use caution and common sense when encountering others after.. As the course of future society is in everyones hands..

In regard to those who aren't prepared - take time to teach them now what they need to know rather than fight them later..



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by hawkiye
 


I'm sorry I didn't hear about the government illegally taking peoples firearms. When and where did that happen?

"Really?"

edit on 7-4-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)
edit on 7-4-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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So, amongst those with land and preparation, because money and resources are not equally distributed, and for those who are in debt each month trying to provide for families on less than the poverty line, stocking up is not possible. And thats a huge chunk of humanity in a pyramid system.

This isn't happening for chaos's sake, although the underworld probably hopes for their win of souls. This would be the biggest tests we can be given. Everything in this world is temporal and a trap.

Surely amongst those who have amassed they have some experiences and have had some direction. Because there are messages I was given.

Those who wish to go the front of the lineup will be sent to the back (is that immediate or merely a soul consequence?) The loaves and the fishes came to mind, sharing amongst meager stock.

Land is meant to house communities. Those stocking need to prepare for being given the responsibity to help those escaping from disasters. There has to be a community effort, and pitching up not only tents, yurts, recycled homes, but combined farming, and gathering medicines. And working at creating as much energy devices as possible, re-establishing community in a moneyless resource way, with volunteers and creating. Gardening, and planting.

The real situation from what I read is that within 1-2 years all natural resources such as fish and food, will be gone. Most people will die following disasters in that time period.

If you're blessed with resources, and havn't had directions, dreams, messages, seek within. With more being given, there is more responsibility.

It would be ideal if every area and town formed a survival group that established itself with nwo awareness, including earth changes, through brochures and presence in the community, and encouraged contributions from tradesmen and mechanics, to start seed collecting, setting aside land, for communal projects, plans to evacuate and transport needed things, projects such as wagons and generators, and most of all, skills, combined skills and knowledge would be the most important thing.

And strong spiritual (not confined to religous) faith, and positivity.

Those who have more now, will have to be making choices themselves, involving community, not just their current communities, how prepared are they to transform their farmsteads into eco villages, and into communes is the question. Because I've been shown survivors making it in, and having the plan in place to erect yurts and shelters, and work as group, and excluding no one.



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


some people might want to join a CLUB about farming or urban gardening or animal husbandry

google and your zip code are your best resource
www.urbanfarmhub.org...

The earliest farming club was established at Faversham (Kent) in 1727 , but its character seems to have been largely social. A number of clubs were formed from the late 18th century onwards, with numbers reaching their peak in the 1830s. They met for regular discussion of farming practices, and some had libraries and organized visits to well‐known farms. They were formed under the patronage of local landowners and their paternal character is revealed by the awards made to labourers and servants for loyal service. See also agricultural societies.
join one or START one...!!!

www.google.com...=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1GGGE_enUS374US375&q=agriculture +organizations&revid=1939043009&sa=X&ei=DumdTZn5EeSY0QHggbHJBA&ved=0CIEBENUCKAE&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=ae3fa2fab1e0dd34



posted on Apr, 7 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 


So very true!

But while you're coming at this from a perspective that seems to stem from divine love I have come to the same conclusions but from a wholly pragmatic point of view which I have already laid out clearly.

There are too many good reasons to care for accept people to create community. So many reasons to open your land. And if you do it correctly you can establish yourself for the future. You will be that "old money" family in 100 years.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 12:36 AM
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The problem with people now is that they live from day to day, without much long term planning, and even those who do plan for the long term usually don't prepare for the worst, because they don't want to admit that things could go south for them, especially in a TEOTWAWKI way.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by darrman
 


Well, if you can prepare, you can pick and choose, and make sure you have what you need. That said though, not everyone can afford to be prepared as well as they'd like.

If you loot and boot, you're stuck with what you find. Personally, I'd loot stores over another person trying to survive, any day of the week. If the SHTF, it's pretty much beyond affecting the store owner anyhow...

I'd also see my fellow human being as more of an asset than anything they could be carrying, and I'd try to gather people together for mutual survival, diverse skills, and mutual defense of our supplies.

If we don't preserve our morals, we're no better than the animals we strive not to be.



posted on Apr, 8 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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I was there for the Rodney King verdict...1st time I was afraid to be white as I was the only white
picking up food in a predominantly black restaurant...I personally do not care what color, gay, straight, whatever...so yes looting & what not in my hood Sherman Oaks - Van Nuys area...curfew 6pm...

The famous photos of the Northridge Quake that made the cover of all the mags was my block.
I lost my truck (garage collapse), the Ralphs grocery across the street on fire so NO supplies not even water. I won't go into detail....had to scavenge to find boards to cover blown out windows, manager & ~ 40 residents evacuated...7 of us friends stayed...luckily it was January so the swimming pool was our refridgerater & I had my charcoal grill the manager was bitching about the wk before...the grill was our only way of cooking, NO water or electricity for at least 2 wks.
Cops patrolled the 1st 2 days & that was it, looting going on, total blackout no electric....the evacs gave us the food from their freezers that we put in coolers on the pool steps & drinks were floating in the pool...we had to sleep outside for 3 to 5 nites following the quake.
I'm writing this just to let people who are NOT aware, that NO ONE CARES if it does not immediately effect them. Yes the 7 of us were prepared for an earthquake disaster...but being right there in the city where there was water & electric were provided to others & not to us in a several block vacinity seemed like we were really in another world, it was like a warzone. Walked a mile to get more batteries & water, totally gauged.
I prefer to be isolated as much as possible as to where I live & hopefully will be totally off grid at some point.

I shared this just to let people know that you can be right in the middle of every day life with total
caos going on in such a small area & NO ONE cares to help you. I left out alot of info just wanted to give a picture hopefully shedding some light, imagine a worse case & not being near any support.

Ektar



posted on Apr, 9 2011 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by Butterbone
 


Butter dude make's some valid points here. Kinda like the prepper/raider with a heart of gold...



posted on Apr, 10 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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Something I've thought about concerning looters, if you're in a SHTF scenario with a total system breakdown, mass hysteria, urban exodus, looting and shooting etc. etc......take off your damn wedding rings. The most dangerous people will always be your most desperate, and there will be nothing more desperate than parents out of their element, stressed, trying to provide and protect their families. I see an easy smile and a wedding band, and my instinct would be to flick the Safety and impolitely tell you to walk the other way.


Food for thought.
edit on 10-4-2011 by Gainsayer because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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The only problem that arises from builing a community is what if some ape-# guy does the 'white flag, im here to build a new community?', and in the night slits your throat and walks off with all your belongings?



I've seen WAY too many cases and been victim to some out of my own naivety where some person puts on the most beautiful face and you fall for the scam.
All it takes is one in a SHTF situation, and you're dead. Can't undo a slit throat/bullet... especially if you're lucky and aren't killed and there's no hospitals anymore.



Just how are you supposed to trust people exactly? I'm generally very kind hearted and I have a problem seeing people suffer... it almost makes me suffer. I'd have to leave the city and head out to a house/bug out place and just cope a few days and accept what has happened.
... but that could be my downfall. If some old guy comes along, acts disabled... and the second I lower my weapon of defense he turns around with a pistol and blows my skull in. What is anyone supposed to actually do to defend against that? Strip whoever comes your way down to nothing and guard them with rotating family members?



posted on Apr, 12 2011 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by NuclearMitochondria
 


Well said. This is the reason that I have a hard time seeing little communities popping up here and there. I read a book where the plan was, if they where captured, to attempt to gain the trust of the captors on the first day. Then be nice on the second day, and on the third day act, because that is when people tend to let their guard down.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by darrman
 


If anyone would choose looting over preparing for a SHTF scenario, then they got something wrong in their mind. Looting house to house would be a really bad idea if someone chose that route, sure they might find some things here and there, a vacant house or two but there will come a time when they open a door and there is somebody on the other side waiting with a shotgun, then at that point all the loot they were able to steal doesn't really matter anymore. The sensible thing for anyone preparing for a SHTF scenario is preparing for looters, plenty of ammo, barricades, traps etc. the homeowner will always have the advantage over a looter if they take the precautions of protecting themselves and their possesions. Now large groups of looters presents much different scenario and while you may take a few out while they are breaking in law of numbers usually always previals so in that situation maybe it would be best to just have an escape route with a secret stash of supplies nearby that you could retrieve and survive until you find a better option, it all depends on ones will to survive.



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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look at Japan
NO LOOTING
of course looting contaminated stuff will kill you...
according to the US government
so might hoarding

trust me:
it isn't so much what you have
it is what you know.

PS
If people keep on killing
at some point normal people will get so sick of the stench of death
they will use that last bullet they have been saving for just such a moment
or
they will smarten up.
edit on 13-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-4-2011 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2011 @ 01:51 AM
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reply to post by NuclearMitochondria
 


At a certain point you just need to trust.

Just because someone can turn on you doesn't mean they will.

It can go the other way around too, what if you find a small community that will help you and their food plan is long pork?

Bottom line is trust your instincts. A con man can't fool your instincts, there will be subconscious tells. If a person gives you the creeps either watch them very closely or turn them away.





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