survival -- plan and prepare? or LOOT and BOOT?

i will be looting department stores and big food stores, i will probably be wearing the latest rolex but i wont go robbing from people or their small stores as that is against my morales.

both are an option and greatly combined.

i mean its nice to keep the essential gear and supplies close by, but...

when the S really HTF and 98% of people are WTF in the initial shock and awe... one can make some last minute purchases that could prove themselves vital in the long run.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by gdaub23


Maybe I'm being naive but I don't think that will not be the case most people are decent and will seek out other decent people and form some kind of community.
There's strength in numbers.
Of course It will all depend on the situation and the environment your in if the SHTF.
But I'm hoping people will see the benefit's of helping each other out.

I might hit some of the chain pawn shops. Mom and Pop shops would be different. I would likely leave them alone until long term if things never settled back down. But chain stores and wal-marts? Well, who is to say???

EDIT: I am fairly well prepared now, but who knows.....

I hit the caption button while watching the country music awards last night, because I wanted to understand the lyrics. One song talked about having a fwd truck and swerving all over the dirt roads like george someone, with 'smoke coming from the windows and a beer on the console', and I can out drive you type messages. When Taylor Swift sang, I thought she wore too much makeup, and it sounded like she'd been beaten, but I wrote that off as part of her act.

For the song about smoke and beers, I thought of KISS, with the lyric 'first I drink, then I smoke'.

I dunno. There are all sorts of threads here. I glanced off one that had everyone saying goodbye, this is the end. I have seen them pull the cord to the big aids™ machine again this Spring, despite the thermonuclear disaster affecting the world for oh thousands of years....and I have seen the 'head for the hills' threads as well as the 'don't head for THESE hills' threads. I didn't catch the 'let's loot' threads.

I just thought I'd relate my experience to reading in to some C&W lyrics. The song about dirt roads was interesting, I thought, and it looks like a lot of rockers are hanging around the guitar store, tongue in cheek, with country hats on, playing country licks, and thinking about beating their girlfriends. Or just trying out another one.

First I drink, then I smoke...

I'm prepared for when the SHTF. I estimate I will be able to survive together with my kid for over 9 months. I made sure we can survive at home, locked away from the outside, as well as in nature. I planned it that way, 'cause you never know what scenario will unfold.

It's not my nature to rob someone else of his food or whatever. But it's also not my nature to let me rob of my stash. (I'll impersonate Danny Trejo if necessary :cool. I probably might go around looking for stuff in houses that are abandoned. As soon as the SHTF I'll be going underground. Every door, window or entry will be booby trapped. Next to that I've got a few nice doggies that without any doubt will protect me and my kid.

That's why I got all the things I needed during the last year and a half. Nobody noticed me buying that much at once, no-one knows, but my best mate. For me, also because of my kid, it's no option to Loot. And I don't own a lot of money, but I started out early enough to be able to do this with a limited amount of money, bit by bit, each month or every two weeks I went to the store or bought it on the Internet. So a limited amount of money is no reason for me and should not be for anyone else. It was just all a matter of planning.

Can anybody tell me why do people, knowing that the S is gonna HTF, do nothing at all, why don't they take any precautions? Why do they wait until it's way too late?

Ukuthula !

reply to post by WeirdOldDude


My dogs would protect me...Even my 18 year old cattle dog would go after someone he didn't recognize..

Staying in the area I'm in when the SHTF is not a good option for my wife and I.

The thing is, nobody can prepare for every single possibility. Thus there may be some things you need to have. I can support myself by living off the land indefinitely with what I carry in my BOB and my weapons. However, that may not be an option depending on the situation. One thing I seriously lack are luxury items to trade for other things I might need later. So, will I visit one of those chain pawnshops on day 1 of the SHTF scenario? It depends, that is all I can say.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


You don't need luxury items.

Just buy a few cartons of smokes and a 24 pack of beer(even crap beer like Corona will do in a pinch) and you've got yourself some bargaining chips.

Some consumables will have to be replenished at one time or another in a SHTF scenario; that is simply the cold truth about it. Antiseptics, antibiotics, aspirin, and any special needs meds for members of the group, all will need replenishment sooner or later.

It might be a smart idea that as soon as the SHTF to set off immediately with an eye to obtain as much of the above as possible.

I'd also add all the disposable lighters you can carry back to your bug out site - for most of the population, a Bic lighter will be worth its weight in gold; both meds and lighters will make good barter tools.

I'm not about to rob someone else who is just trying to survive though.

If they've got good heads on their shoulders, it would make a lot more sense to pool our knowledge and resources; more hands to help out, more skillsets to bring to the table and more people to defend the group.

That said, I'm not going to feel real bad about breaking into a closed up Wally World for some additional supplies if everything else has gone to hell in a hand-basket.

reply to post by mydarkpassenger
Well, if I relocate to Florida, I might U2U you.

reply to post by lewman


Thank you for your input.... all of you..

the ant and the Grasshopper... good story!!

Honestly, I am prepared to bug in, living on my own paid for land 30 minutes from the nearest town and that being 4k people. I am 1.5 hours from any city of appreciable size. I have a semi-off the grid lifestyle raising diary for profit and a balanced subsistence amount of other food and animals.

IMO the question of looting and thievery boils down to the type of TEOTWAWKI event. There are scenarios like disease in which there will be an abundance of abandoned “property” and the few survivors will be dispersed and the acquisition of replacement goods (everyone should have some preparations made) is more scavenging than looting. In this type situation IMO taking what you need from abandoned stores, hospitals and even private residences would not really be challenging or unethical.

However, most scenarios like an economic collapse, EMP, war, famine etc., will be the reverse in which anything of value will quickly be claimed and or consumed If not horded.

This is the situation I fear the most and for which I have made my preparations. However, while I fear an occasional armed incursion by an individual or group out where I live it’s not bloody likely until several months after the main avenues or lines of human drift have been picked clean. I think being a retired Special Forces officer I can handle these groups having made tactical plans. My wife is even an ex-military officer and not totally clueless when it comes to tactics, etc.

That said, what I fear the most is an imposed or mob mandated looting situation. What I mean there is the government or what passes for it, after a collapse decides by mob rule or decree (say at county level or higher) that all people should suffer equally and try and confiscate or commandeer rural livestock and resources after the hoards of city dwellers have consumed theirs for “central distribution”.

I am not heartless I will trade with people for stuff; hell even labor for food eventually as I will need some help to plant/milk and run the place should we lose electricity or even electronics. Eventually even my 1960’s, which I think is EMP proof or at least resistant, tractor is going to run out of fuel I have on hand and I will need help. That said; no one rides for free…sucks to have not prepared IMO.

However, I would have a hard time dealing with someone coming to the house to commandeer any stored goods, or even my livestock to feed the stupid people who chose to live in the city and not prepare. I honestly don’t know what I would do in that situation and likely won’t until the second it happens. I am friends with the local sheriff and don’t think he’d go that far but then again he may not have a choice if there is some declaration at national level. Also, if a squad of young American Soldiers showed up to complete the theft I’d have some personal issues with just ambushing them in cold blood no quetions asked since I served for 24 years.

In the end I think it would very much depend on how bad it was and how long I thought it would last. If it was a total unrecoverable national or world level TEOTWAWKI then I think I’d fight them off without much remorse perhaps if it were regional and I had some reasonable expectation of reimbursement at a later time - I might comply. It is going to be a tough call.

Originally posted by Deebo
Looters will see in short order the low life expectancy of their kind.


Deebo

This statement made me think of a good weapon... a bull horn!

LOOTER!!!!! LOOTER!!!!! might deter someone, depending on the situation of course.

I would prefer to hopefully get a smallish community of trusted neighbors/people, some will want to fight (protect the group), some will want to take care of the kids, some will scavenge (loot?), some will be healers/spiritual, some will... you name it.

A small tight community would be able to defend their supplies as well as grow/hunt for more. Otherwise a single person, or small group (less than 10 people) will be very vulnerable. If you have supplies hide them and appear meak. Stay in hiding yourself, and if found, appear less well armed than you are. Also I don't consider it to be looting in a true SHTF situation to take nessissary supplies from major chains, like Wal-Mart, but I won't take them from people. Scavenging is good stealing is wrong. Though if someone messes with me I will seriously consider hitting them for their supplies, to both weaken them and to strengthen myself if I think it is practical (if not I stay the hell away from them).

That is why you should be two hours from a high population center. The looters will kill each other off and won't have enough gas to get two hours out at least not in any significant numbers. They will spend thier time and resources close to home. By the time they need to branch out they won't be able to as all the resources will be taken or used up.

You are probably more at risk from so call LE or military taking your stuff.. This is why a good retreat hidden from view and not easily accessible but easily defendable is ideal if you can manage it. If you have to make your stand in the city then you need a group and some fall back places.

Bottom line is few are really prepared for complete SHTF scenario. Lets hope it does not get that bad, Prepare for the worst hope for the best!

I think planing to loot is about the stupidest thing a person could do.

Barring all moral ramifications, which are null and void in this discussion if you ask me, looting is dangerous. The name of the game is survival and when you're in a compromising situation such as plundering a store there are far too many tactical disadvantages for the pay out.

If you insist upon securing your living through theft setting up on a travel route where you canset the tactical advantage and robbing from travelers would be your best bet. But even then this could be risky giventhe amount of paranoid and skilled people who might be travelling.

I think the bottom line is that it is necessary to form a new community ASAP.

In my city there is a glass manufacturer, a seed company, many ranches and farms, a building supply distributor as well as ample water supply. In most situations the community could be mobilized to build giant greenhouses and work towards survival. Hell there is even an elephant preserve nearby with retired circus elephants who could be very helpful in rebuilding.

The bottom line is know your surroundings, know the resources, and know the contacts. If stuff gets really tough people WANT to survive as a community, they just need to know they can. If need be I will be that person that tells them they can. Every human who tries to go "every man for himself" inevitably doesn't come out of human. We are social creatures and this is the only way we can thrive.

I hope people stop focusing on their battle packs and begin focusing on their community assistance packs.

Plan and Prepare right now!
DO(some examples):
-Generator/s
-Candles(matches, lighter fluid)
-Batteries(small and car batteries)
-Canned good and boxed stuff, soups(even though the non perishables can only last so long)
-Water(purified)
-Land and other living resources, if possible or if not get out of the big cities, get to higher land, mountainous areas(not preferred are active or inactive volcanoes or super volcanos(Yellowstone)
-Fresh ground filtered water areas.
-alternatives to gas(such as hydrogen)
-Alternate to car transportation if you need to flee(horse and buggy, etc)
-Travel bags/backpacks, stored/fresh close and other personal items
etc,etc.

Risky:
-Looting, you may find yourself dead or injured trying to do that.
-Large groups of people, distraught may be dangerous = Mob mentalities
If you must loot, have a team of people, be ready with items that you may need to be safe with...etc.

Unfortunately the jobs are in the large population zones, so living two hours away is not a real option for most people. After the SHTF, my first concern will be getting my kids from the ex-wife. She will likely get herself killed off pretty quick as she is unwilling to even consider the possibility of such a situation occurring. She definitely will not prepare. There is no reason for my kids to die with her. My kids already know how to camp and fish. They are not old enough to teach them how to shoot yet(unless we did live 2 hours out), but they start a fire without matches or a lighter. I plan to begin teaching them to shoot when they turn 10. As for a community, if I knew where to find one I would be interested in joining one. However most sheeple are much more interested in american idol or other such claptrap.

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


If you really would like to join a survival community or other off the grid type community everything you need can be found here: www.ic.org...

There is a lot to sort through but everything you could possibly want as far as being able to pick up and join or even start your own community of like minded people is there.

To start with just browse the communities by state. It might take a little time to learn to filter out the useless ones but this really is a good resource.