DOJ to charge 9/11 "Co-Conspirators" in Military Tribunal instead of Civilian Court!?

Originally posted by Dendro
reply to post by FDNY343

 

Regardless of the Truth Movement or not if the verdict is still based on being "beyond a reasonable doubt" the case should be thrown out on that premise alone. There is massive doubt surrounding everything to do with 9/11 regardless of what side of the debate you are on.

Yes, but unfortunately none if its reasonable. There's a reason they use the word "reasonable". Anyone can sit and make up a million different fanatastic scenarios to explain the facts as they are presented if one is only limited by the human imagination. But that may be entertaining, but it is not reasonable.

reply to post by Cobaltic1978

Thanks for replying, I did mention in my above post that you hadn't so apologies for that.

They have agents in Bin Laden's unit? Yet they don't know where he is? Some agents they are.

If it is behind closed doors, then this does stick in the throat a bit, to be fair.

No, they do not have agents in "Bin Laden's unit". The unit he is refering to is a unit of the American intelligence community that is charged with covering anything to do with OBL. Revealing their names and identities in an open court can put many persons in harm's way. Including informants and innocent family members.

I am pretty sure it won't be wholly behind closed doors. Some press may be invited, but there may be instances when they are asked to leave if sensitive material is discussed.

Originally posted by FDNY343

Originally posted by Dendro
reply to post by FDNY343

 

Regardless of the Truth Movement or not if the verdict is still based on being "beyond a reasonable doubt" the case should be thrown out on that premise alone. There is massive doubt surrounding everything to do with 9/11 regardless of what side of the debate you are on.

So, have you forwarded your information that proves KSM is innocent?

Yes or no.

Why yes, yes I have. Yesterday. Unfortunately, I predict my envelope to be returned unopened with a small note written on it for Canadians to keep their noses out of it.

Originally posted by FDNY343

Originally posted by Cassius666
Can somebody enlighten me on what it means, that the trial has been moved from a civillian court to a military court?

Not much really. The evidence gathered by military has different standards than civillian court.

The rules of evidence are much more stringent in military courts.

If the evidence was gathered by military, it is best to go with a military court. If the evidence was gathered by civillians, it is best to go with a civillian court.

It's not much different either way.

I'd venture the military didn't gather any evidence against KSM, unless of course you consider being water boarded 180 some times and tortured by who knows what other means, evidence gathering.

Which, my guess is that you and your debunker movement members are happy to consider torturing as a form of evidence gathering. Of course, as long as it's not happening to US citizens/soldiers, right Mr Debunker?

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Cobaltic1978

 

Thanks for replying, I did mention in my above post that you hadn't so apologies for that.

They have agents in Bin Laden's unit? Yet they don't know where he is? Some agents they are.

If it is behind closed doors, then this does stick in the throat a bit, to be fair.

No, they do not have agents in "Bin Laden's unit". The unit he is refering to is a unit of the American intelligence community that is charged with covering anything to do with OBL. Revealing their names and identities in an open court can put many persons in harm's way. Including informants and innocent family members.

I am pretty sure it won't be wholly behind closed doors. Some press may be invited, but there may be instances when they are asked to leave if sensitive material is discussed.

Please, Hooper your so full of it sometimes...You know full in well that the press is in full compliance with the military, they don't have to ask them to leave the courts anymore, a simple request is all that the press needs to happily conceal whatever the military doesn't want the public at large to know.

Their happy to play their "patriotic" roll, just like you and the rest of your 9/11 debunker pals think your doing here on ATS.

Originally posted by Cobaltic1978

Originally posted by FDNY343

Originally posted by Cobaltic1978

Originally posted by FDNY343
So, are any of the 9/11 Truth movement members, or posters here, going to contact KSM's attorneys with your evidence that could set a man free?

If yes, great. If not, why not?

Will a military tribunal be open to the public? Will all the evidence be allowed to be reported on? Or is it all done behind closed doors?

I don't know honestly. I am sure that some parts of it will remain classified, as we saw with the Muissoui (sp?) trial. Some of the information is redacted to protect agents working undercover in the Bin Laden Unit and elsewhere.

But, I honestly do not know.

Thanks for replying, I did mention in my above post that you hadn't so apologies for that.

They have agents in Bin Laden's unit? Yet they don't know where he is? Some agents they are.

If it is behind closed doors, then this does stick in the throat a bit, to be fair.

No worries.

No, not IN Bin Laden's UNIT, (My bad, it should have made it more clear) meaning that is the name of the unit tracking Bin Laden et al. It's part of the CIA.

I think it is called a Station to be exact.

Do I think that it is suspicious if they decide to conduct their trial behind closed doors? No. Not at all.

There are some things that are classified that you and I are not at liberty to know. For instance, the grocery bill of a submarine. The manufacturer of the paint used to paint a sub. Many things are classified, and for good reason.

We will just have to wait and see.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice

Originally posted by FDNY343

Originally posted by Cassius666
Can somebody enlighten me on what it means, that the trial has been moved from a civillian court to a military court?

Not much really. The evidence gathered by military has different standards than civillian court.

The rules of evidence are much more stringent in military courts.

If the evidence was gathered by military, it is best to go with a military court. If the evidence was gathered by civillians, it is best to go with a civillian court.

It's not much different either way.

I'd venture the military didn't gather any evidence against KSM, unless of course you consider being water boarded 180 some times and tortured by who knows what other means, evidence gathering.

Which, my guess is that you and your debunker movement members are happy to consider torturing as a form of evidence gathering. Of course, as long as it's not happening to US citizens/soldiers, right Mr Debunker?

I am willing to bet that you are arguing from personal ignorance. But, that is just a guess.

And no, I would have had no problem with anyone torturing a US Terrorist. Timothy McVeigh would be one of them.

I have no sympathy for terrorists, no matter where they come from. Even it was my own brother.

reply to post by FDNY343


Hate is a funny thing isn't it??
Second line.

reply to post by PersonalChoice


It's revolting what the American government stooped to in the case of KSM and others. But that doesn't mean there's no evidence against him outside of that which he gave himself.

I'd also point out that it's not automatically suspicious that the trial is being held in the way it is, because there are other intel aspects that the authorities would reasonably be expected to cover up not limited to their potential involvement in the attacks. I think you're right that it's undesirable though.

reply to post by FDNY343


By the way, I resent the fact your gonna imply I have sympathy for "terrorists" in the way that your implying.(Seeing as even our fore fathers were considered terrorists, and the words meaning is derived from ones particular perspective). That being said, I could care less about the people involved/behind the 9/11 attacks, but that doesn't change the fact that torturing other humans is abhorrent, this has been universal, unless you fancied yourself as a Nazi. Even to you it should be, what, just because some of our fellow Americans were murdered, we should go out and kidnap and torture people?

What cause you are not "personally ignorant"? So what? You have fallen right into the trap, you should be ashamed of your self. When does it all end then? The problem with your whole notion of justice is that it opens the door up for other countries to kidnap and torture. You act as if every person in Gitmo is guilty of being a terrorist, we already know that is false, maybe one day another country will think that your completely innocent brother is a terrorist, kidnap him and torture him. It would be people like you who actually opened the door to this scenario even occurring. And why, because of some perverted form of justice, just because you were personally touched by a murderer?

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Believe me TOS, based off everything I know, his death couldn't come soon enough. But yeah, I agree with everything you said. But you can bet your bottom dollar it ended up in military court for other reasons than what we were just told. The President wouldn't stick his face in a pie like this unless it was mandatory. Yet, even still, the same people that supposedly opposed this are gonna have a field day with it during elections. Political madness, as they say here.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
reply to post by FDNY343

 

Hate is a funny thing isn't it??
Second line.

Not really. I have absolutely no sympathy for people, (no matter who it is) that go out, kill innocent people, all for a simple cause. I have NO sumpathy for them whatsoever.

I have no respect for anyone who would attack innocent people. NONE. If my brother decided to join the jihad, and decided to blow up a plane, or whatever, I would have NO sympathy for him. If his captors "tortured" him by pouring water on his face, so be it. If they played annoying music at loud volumes, so be it.

Im sorry, I do not see waterboarding as torture. Torture would be like hooking someones testicles to a car battery with jumper cables. THAT would be torture.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
By the way, I resent the fact your gonna imply I have sympathy for "terrorists" in the way that your implying.

I didn't imply that at all.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
(Seeing as even our fore fathers were considered terrorists, and the words meaning is derived from ones particular perspective).

I will agree. "Terrorists" mean people who kill other people because of a difference of religious beliefs.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
That being said, I could care less about the people involved/behind the 9/11 attacks,

Couldn't. COULDN'T care less.

Neither could I.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
but that doesn't change the fact that torturing other humans is abhorrent, this has been universal, unless you fancied yourself as a Nazi.

Way to Godwin yourself.

PS. I don't think waterboarding is torture.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
Even to you it should be, what, just because some of our fellow Americans were murdered, we should go out and kidnap and torture people?

Kidnap? Torture? Hardly. When a police officer arrests someone under the laws of the state, is it kidnapping? No, of course not.

And I never claimed that. Way to go with the strawman.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
What cause you are not "personally ignorant"? So what? You have fallen right into the trap, you should be ashamed of your self.

I'm not sure what that means. Will you elaborate?

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
When does it all end then?

When I can see a bunch of convicted terrorists that have attacked my country because of their religious beliefs, sittting behind bars, waiting for the day when they die.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
The problem with your whole notion of justice is that it opens the door up for other countries to kidnap and torture.

Again, you're confusing kidnapping with holding someone under international laws.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
You act as if every person in Gitmo is guilty of being a terrorist, we already know that is false,

Agreed. Hence, why we should be sending them to trial, or releasing them. I agree 100%.

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
maybe one day another country will think that your completely innocent brother is a terrorist, kidnap him and torture him.

Has every prisoner at Gitmo been tourtured? Do you have any evidence of this? The instances of US soldiers torturing inmates, haven't they been brought to justice? (ABu Ghrab [SP?] ring a bell?)

Originally posted by PersonalChoice
It would be people like you who actually opened the door to this scenario even occurring. And why, because of some perverted form of justice, just because you were personally touched by a murderer?

So, we should just sit back and watch our own countryman being murdered? Not even close.

reply to post by PersonalChoice

Please, Hooper your so full of it sometimes...You know full in well that the press is in full compliance with the military, they don't have to ask them to leave the courts anymore, a simple request is all that the press needs to happily conceal whatever the military doesn't want the public at large to know.

Their happy to play their "patriotic" roll, just like you and the rest of your 9/11 debunker pals think your doing here on ATS.

Oh, I'm sorry - I forgot that worldview wherein everyone but you is "in on it". They're all batting on the same team - one big worldwide superconspiracy. Well almost worldwide - ethical giants like yourself refuse to play ball.

reply to post by hooper


Actually it seems in many cases that you, believers of the OS, are the ones who are in the minority. A poll in 2006 showed a third of the population in America thought it was an inside job. 85% of Canadians think it was an inside job, 90% of Germans, etc etc.

I won't claim to know what happened in 9/11 but I'd be pretty stupid to go with the OS, IMHO.

Originally posted by Dendro
reply to post by hooper

 

85% of Canadians think it was an inside job, 90% of Germans, etc etc.

Nonsense. Find me a reputable source that says this and I'll rebuild the towers myself.

Note that when Truth Movement organisations mount these polls they don't often use the best psephological methods. I, for example, have responded to polls that ask "Do you think we're being told the whole truth about 9/11?" in the negative. Indeed it's hard to see how anybody could answer it positively. And then one reads later that the poll was actually a question about whether respondents thought 9/11 was an inside job.

Generally the Truth Movement likes to portray as many people as possible as sympathising with their opinions. People who exercise concerns over intel failures, those who just don't like waterboarding or Guanatanamo Bay - everybody is roped in under the Truth banner. Actually there's a very big difference between thinking the towers were CD'd, or that a missile hit the Pentagon, or that the US government planned the attack, and just thinking that they've probably downplayed intel failures since.

Originally posted by Dendro
reply to post by hooper

 

Actually it seems in many cases that you, believers of the OS, are the ones who are in the minority. A poll in 2006 showed a third of the population in America thought it was an inside job. 85% of Canadians think it was an inside job, 90% of Germans, etc etc.

I won't claim to know what happened in 9/11 but I'd be pretty stupid to go with the OS, IMHO.

I bet you cannot source the polls that claim this......