Please just hear me out about Obama's birth certificate!!

Show me the vault copy or it didn't happen.

C'mon if he's so squeaky clean, why not just show the real birth certificate? What's on it that he doesn't want anyone to see? There are lots of things besides his citisenship. Maybe he has a deformed evil twin.

Obama, show us the vault copy, and shut everyone up!
He's been court ordered to do so, but I guess he can be in contempt and it's cool.
I wish I could do that.

Originally posted by woghd
He's been court ordered to do so, but I guess he can be in contempt and it's cool.

Got a source for that?

Or just more of the same unsubstantiated birther claims?

It doesn't matter if he was born in Hawaii or not. His mother was a U.S. citizen from Wichita Kansas and therefore he was born a U.S. citizen.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

double post

Originally posted by ncb1010
It doesn't matter if he was born in Hawaii or not. His mother was a U.S. citizen from Wichita Kansas and therefore he was born a U.S. citizen.

It might not be as simple as that. The Supreme Court has never ruled, specifically, on the status of natural-born citizenship of people born abroad. If natural-born citizen is simply being born as a US citizen, in other words, not a naturalized citizen, then those born abroad as US citizens obviously qualify, as you say.

But since the birthers have yet to prove Obama wasn’t born in the United States, that legal question is unnecessary, since just about everyone born in the United States is a US and natural-born citizen.

Originally posted by aptness

Originally posted by woghd
He's been court ordered to do so, but I guess he can be in contempt and it's cool.

Got a source for that?

Or just more of the same unsubstantiated birther claims?

here's a few:
nourishingobscurity.blogspot.com... -produce-vault-copy-and-have-done.html

www.danielpipes.org...

macsmind.com... bama-to-produce-birth-certificate/



And lets not forget that Conversation with the Kenyan Ambassador.
Clark: "We want to congratulate you on Barack Obama, our new president, and you must be very proud."

Ogego: "We are. We are. We are also proud of the U.S. for having made history as well."

Fellhauer: "One more quick question, President-elect Obama's birthplace over in Kenya, is that going to be a national spot to go visit, where he was born?"

Ogego: "It's already an attraction. His paternal grandmother is still alive."

Fellhauer: "His birthplace, they'll put up a marker there?"

Ogego: "It would depend on the government. It's already well known."

reply to post by woghd
All your links are from 2008. And they are all regarding lawsuits that have since been dismissed.

Here is a list of lawsuits contesting Obama’s citizenship and their outcome.

By mid-December 2008, at least 17 lawsuits had been filed challenging Obama's eligibility in states including North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Jersey, Texas and Washington. No such suit had resulted in the grant of any relief to the plaintiffs by any court.

In other words, and contrary to what you claim, Obama was not ordered to produce his “vault copy” birth certificate, or any other certificate, nor is he in contempt.

Father's Race: African.

Since when did "African" become a race?

Well, personally, what matters to me is what the CONSTITUTION SAYS--what our forefathers said constitutes a natural born citizen...and guess what? Obama ain't it!!! Geez Louise, some of you people scare me. This country is going to H in a handbasket and the fact that so few know even the basics is more than likely the reason why. How can we hold our elected politicians feet to the fire if we don't even know the law--The Constitution is the law of the land.
Here's a few applicable links:
Excerpt
The international standard in place then and now is known as The Law of Nations. We see this term referenced in our US Constitution under Article I – Section VIII – the Enumerated Powers section of our Constitution, wherein it states that Congress shall have the power – “To define and punish - Offenses against the Law of Nations;” – note that Law of Nations is capitalized, referring to the international treaty defining national sovereignty and citizenship the world over.

To George Washington, President of the Constitutional Convention, Jay writes “Permit me to hint whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of foreigners into the administration of our national government; and to declare expressly that the command in chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on any but a natural born citizen.” Jay not only knew of Vattel, as can be seen from his correspondence with James Madison in 1780 during treaty negotiations with Spain, but he was also a proponent of Vattel as well. – More history here

The Law of Nations treaty is the foundation for our national sovereignty and the term “natural born citizen” is found, and was studied by our nation’s founders, in a book written by Emerich de Vattel in 1758.
www.newswithviews.com...

-------------
Natural Born Citizen - a Place to Ask Questions
Excerpt
Obama is not Article II constitutionally eligible to be the President and Commander of our military. Obama is NOT a "natural born Citizen" to constitutional standards. Obama's father was NOT a U.S. Citizen. Obama's father was not an immigrant to the United States. Obama's father was a foreign national, a British Subject. Obama is the child of an alien father who was sojourning in the U.S. attending college. Obama was born a British Subject via his father and is still such to this day.
puzo1.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by aptness
reply to post by woghd

 

All your links are from 2008. And they are all regarding lawsuits that have since been dismissed.

Here is a list of lawsuits contesting Obama’s citizenship and their outcome.

By mid-December 2008, at least 17 lawsuits had been filed challenging Obama's eligibility in states including North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Hawaii, Connecticut, New Jersey, Texas and Washington. No such suit had resulted in the grant of any relief to the plaintiffs by any court.

In other words, and contrary to what you claim, Obama was not ordered to produce his “vault copy” birth certificate, or any other certificate, nor is he in contempt.

edit on 4-4-2011 by aptness because: (no reason given)

You are correct. Barry is no longer in contempt because those cases were dismissed after his lawyers got them in front of a different judge, yeah that's so much better. He's a great guy!

The real question that needs answered is: Why was Obama's white grandfather(his mother's father) at the airport in Hawaii greeting Obama's dad from Kenya? Is it normal for furniture salesmen from Kansas to greet new students from Kenya as they arrive in Hawaii?

Well op, if they could pull off the 911 scam and say it was some cave men armed with box cutters. Who took out the greatest military HQ in the world. Then any thing is possible. The latest scam the peace prize winner has pulled off, is to attack Libya. Way to go Obama. You sure earned that award.
Troops home yet? Gitmo shut yet? The list of broken promises is endless. No change there, hes just bush with a black face.

I'd like everyone reading this thread to watch 3:03 to 3:42 of the following new video and then read my comments below it. Listen for for him to mention the wonderful, unbiased Annenberg foundation who runs Factcheck.org:




Now that you've listened to that, read the following line from President Obama's Wikipedia page:

"He [Obama] served on the board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from 1995 to 2002, as founding president and chairman of the board of directors from 1995 to 1999." Wikipedia Link

And read articles such as this one, published back in August in 2008 before the election even happened and before this controversy was even well-known:
"Obama's Lost Annenberg Years Coming to Light"

Originally posted by Habit4ming
Well, personally, what matters to me is what the CONSTITUTION SAYS--what our forefathers said constitutes a natural born citizen...and guess what? Obama ain't it!!!

Is John McCain a natural-born citizen? And why?

Regarding the links you provide, even if the history they recount, and the quotes it relies on aren’t taken out of context or truncated, describe the law as it, perhaps, once was but not anymore. I say perhaps because the citations and arguments therein don’t prove the framers relied on Vattel’s definition, merely that many of them appreciated Vattel’s treatise, but, and as acknowledged in your sources as well, they also relied on Blackstone.

In any event, since 1898 the Supreme Court has considered anyone, except children of diplomats and children of invaders, born in the United States as natural-born citizens. Even if this theory of natural-born citizen that you support was the framers intent, and I haven’t seen conclusive evidence to claim as such, it is not the standing law and this has nothing to do with Obama.

If the birthers want Obama out of office, you have to come up with proof that he wasn’t born in the United States, because, as of now, parentage is completely irrelevant to natural-born citizen status of someone born in the United States.

reply to post by woghd


Show me where in the constitution the vault copy is the only valid form of identification that proves natural born citizenship or your question is invalid.

I want to see the specific part in the constitution where it specifies that the long form is the only acceptable form. I want to see the proof. Otherwise, your argument is complete twaddle.

That's the question birthers refuse to answer, and because they can't answer that, they have no real argument.

I got one.

Show me where it says "African" is a race.

It's documented that Hawaii issued certificates of Live Births to people born out the country at the time of Obama's birth. Obama doesn't have a "long form birth-certificate" he has a Certificate of Live Birth issued by the state of Hawaii which means he wasn't born in America. Don't know where he was born, just know he wasn't born here.

Look at what the Congress ruled for McCain when he went through the process of figuring out if he was a Natural Born Citizen because he was born in Panama on a Military Base.

It's that simple folks. Try finding a court that will accept the case though, that isn't happening. Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen. The very evidence the "Birther Debunkers" are using to debunk the "birthers" is evidence that he is ineligible for office. Just do the research on what Hawaii listed as "race" to people born out the country when they would issue a Certificate of Live Birth. That would be all you need. White People are born in Africa too.

But there are powerful people that put him in office and they will kill to keep him there so if you decide to pursue this matter any further be careful.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by woghd

 

Show me where in the constitution the vault copy is the only valid form of identification that proves natural born citizenship or your question is invalid.

I want to see the specific part in the constitution where it specifies that the long form is the only acceptable form. I want to see the proof. Otherwise, your argument is complete twaddle.

That's the question birthers refuse to answer, and because they can't answer that, they have no real argument.

Don't you know they didn't have birth certificates back then?

But do you know what they DID have? A note in the family Bible from whoever delivered the baby, today that would be a doctor's signature. Does he have anything like that? oh that's right nobody knows thename of the doctor who delivered baby Barry. If we did, we could determine very quickly where he was born. That's why we need to see the long form. it has the doctor's name and all that good kinda stuff.

Just out of curiosity...since you are one of these adamant anti-birthers, aren't you curious? Be honest, haven't you ever asked yourself "Why doesn't this freakin' guy just produce it?" Seriously, even you guys must ask yourselves that once in a while.

reply to post by woghd


See, I figure that he showed his COLB, which was verified by the state of Hawaii, and the fun fact that this issue makes his opponents look like complete loons.

This is further enforced by the fact that yet again, birthers can't come up with any language in the US Constitution that stipulates that the long form birth certificate is the ONLY piece of identification that is valid in proving natural born citizenship status.

But, we should keep this "conspiracy" up front, that way anyone that believes it is seen as completely crazy.

Originally posted by ncb1010
It doesn't matter if he was born in Hawaii or not. His mother was a U.S. citizen from Wichita Kansas and therefore he was born a U.S. citizen.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

edit on 4-4-2011 by ncb1010 because: (no reason given)

Some nations recognize that if you are foriegn born and are a non resident of that nation and you have a kid in that nation your kid is a child of that nation. It does matter where he was born as that is the icing on the cake. Your mother could be born in England and your father in Brazil, as long as you were born in the US you hold full legal citizenship status.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
Obama doesn't have a "long form birth-certificate" he has a Certificate of Live Birth issued by the state of Hawaii which means he wasn't born in America. Don't know where he was born, just know he wasn't born here.

Really, you know? Based on what? Not having a “long form birth certificate” and having a certificate of live birth issued by Hawaii?

So everyone in Hawaii that doesn’t have a “long form birth certificate” anymore, and requests a birth certificate from the state — since the state only issues certificates of live birth — means they were born somewhere else? Is this really what you believe? Or this ‘logic’ of yours only applies to Obama?

Look at what the Congress ruled for McCain when he went through the process of figuring out if he was a Natural Born Citizen because he was born in Panama on a Military Base.

There was no ‘process,’ merely a declaration that the Senate believed McCain was a natural-born citizen. The Senate passed a non-binding resolution saying they believe McCain is a natural-born citizen. It was introduced by a Democrat (Claire McCaskill) and co-sponsored by 5 other Democrats, including Obama and Clinton.

What’s funny is that, according to the birthers own theory of natural-born citizen to disqualify Obama regardless of were he was born, as described in Vattel’s treatise, John McCain is not a natural-born citizen.

Before the Constitution the closest reference we have to Natural Born Citizen is from the legal treatise “the Law of Nations,” written by Emerich de Vattel in 1758. In book one chapter 19, § 212. Of the citizens and natives.

“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.”

Yet here are the birthers pointing to “the process McCain went through” — aka a non-binding resolution — as proof that Congress, in regards to McCain, did its job and McCain is, therefore, a natural-born citizen.

I’m sure if the roles were reversed and the Senate passed a non-binding resolution claiming they believed Obama to be a natural-born citizen the birthers would totally accept it...

It's that simple folks.

It’s so simple, but the birthers have yet to present any proof Obama wasn’t born in the United States.

Birthers only present deductions that imply everyone born in Hawaii that doesn’t have a “long form birth certificate” must’ve been born somewhere else, as put forward by this ATS member; and that the framers appreciated Vattel’s work and therefore must’ve relied on Vattel’s definition of natural-born.

Even if that were so, the law of the land has been, for over 100 years, that everyone born in the United States is a natural-born citizen, regardless of parentage. When the “other guys” win, the birthers suddenly care about centuries old precedents of US jurisprudence.