A Question For The Liberals Here

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posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

Thanks for the reply. You were actually one of the people I hoped would reply. Your posts are generally well thought out, and I respect that even though we disagree on most issues.
However, you artfully dodged the question. I think we can assume that most of these tax dodging corporations do not support the entitlement programs I have mentioned. I ask again, how much extra do you pay to the government to support the programs you believe in?


why do you assume that??
I'm not talking about GE specifically here, but there are many corps that benefit from those handouts that their employees get!!
I mean, their employees get sick, and well, they don't want the expense of providing healthcare to ALL their employees, just a few, their favorites.... so well, do you really think that they don't support the gov't providing those other, near minimum wage employees healthcare?? what is their options, do it themselves, or well, tolerate their employees coming in sick and spreading who knows what around...

as far as the question that was posed...
we pay taxes, and well.....at least we aren't going out of our way to find every last dime of deductions, we aren't stretching the truth or all out lying about our income, and we aren't hiding our assetts in off shore bank accounts...
so, well, ya, we are paying more than we reallly have to....

I have heard some what the republicans would like to do with social security/medicare...
I have also heard a little about what they want to do with medicaid, and I disagree with that one...
they are just cutting there on those who earn a little too much to get medicaid, but well, they still can't cover the bills....
thank you very much!!! ya, work your arse off, even when you are sick, but well, don't expect any help, even if it means you do without treatment for what ails you, but please, keep on working, keep on paying your taxes....they mom down the street wants to run her kid to the doctor for his runny nose, and we are counting on you to pay for it!!!

more than likely, if we are ever gonna balance the budget, we are gonna need to make some steep cuts!! and we are also gonna need to raise taxes!!
is it too much to ask that we try to do this in as far of a manner as possible....
because by what I have heard, most of the republicans want to cut the hell out of social security, but then they don't plan on using that savings on balancing crap, but rather, their next sentences seem to say, they want to bestow the savings to the rich, in the form of more tax breaks!!!

please note....
much of that deficit came in the form of bank bailouts and other attempts to protect the rich's assetts!! all the poor and elderly have gotten out of it, is increasing prices for everything they need!!
since it wasn't the poor and elderly that benefitted from those bailouts and other gimmicks, it shouldn't be them who end up paying for them!!

and well, how much was the child health program extended this last time, and where did the money come from??
oh, ya, medicare, social security.......helping to pay for abled bodied people, much more capable of working than a 70 year old!! kid's healthcare !!!!

make the tax hikes and cuts in programs fair and balanced!! you will hear me chime in in support...
but they are not fair, or balanced, they are centered along party lines, which is why ain't crap getting done!




posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Your question is both ignorant and ridiculous...
I pay my taxes...if the top 10%....the elite.....the powers that be...Would pay theirs....we could afford everything...try not to lick too much of the man's spittle...eh?



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 

I will never, under any condition support any further tax increases. The government needs to start doing only the jobs outlined in the Constitution. All spending bills need to cite where in the Constitution they gain the authority to perform the particular task for which they are taking our money. All branches and institutions of government need to start every single year with a budget of zero dollars, then they need to justify every single dollar requested.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by nivekronnoco
reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Your question is both ignorant and ridiculous...
I pay my taxes...if the top 10%....the elite.....the powers that be...Would pay theirs....we could afford everything...try not to lick too much of the man's spittle...eh?
I guess your answer is that you give zero dollars? You only support these programs when spending other people's money?



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


would stupid frog and fairy statues for a new pentagon building qualify as "necessary"? since well, the money was appropriated to the dod, ya know defense.....but then, well, it was the pentagon that deciding that a frog was more important than them to have the ability to reassign the troops when it's called for!
our gov't is being run stupidly, and there isn't any cure for stupid!!!



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


would stupid frog and fairy statues for a new pentagon building qualify as "necessary"? since well, the money was appropriated to the dod, ya know defense.....but then, well, it was the pentagon that deciding that a frog was more important than them to have the ability to reassign the troops when it's called for!
our gov't is being run stupidly, and there isn't any cure for stupid!!!


Actually, there is a cure for stupidity. The cure is not FDA approved however since it involves the direct internal application of lead into the sufferers cranial cavity. This does not make the person any smarter due to the extremely high rate of fatality(99.99999999%) arising from the treatment, but it does help raise the overall level of intelligence in the remaining population.
Look the dept of defense should not be buying such crap imo and I suspect you knew that that would be my position. The dept of defense spending should be mission related. Their mission is to kill people and break things.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Aren't liberals and "the poor" the same group of people?

The programming is designed to reach people who would not ordinarily have access to these types of shows. Ostensibly it is in the interest of the wealthy to support the programming since it makes a more well rounded better educated people, regardless of income.

Isn't education in the best interests and doesn't it offer some long term benefits to the Nation at large?



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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I don't care if NPR goes away. GOOD RIDDANCE. All they talk about is matters of Middle East combat, strategy, intelligence, Al qaeda, etcetera stuff, that makes me call it "CIA radio". "Your happenin source for you analyst animals, Yeah!" (Says the 'DJ'...) < Me messin around to make a point..)
The ONLY one I listen to is Diane Rehm,......And that is only once in awhile, which is rarer and lesser, as she is increasingly no longer interesting. Ya ever here the STUPID S**t they put on the weekends? (Like those giggling car guys....Jeezuz help me..)



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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I have to agree with the OP, corporate bailouts are a much better use of our tax dollars. We might as well be feeding the greediest hogs at the trough. We certainly don't want any of that moeny being spent on infrastructure, education, or anything else so frivilous. Darn better make sure none of those poor folk get any - it's their choice to be poor, right?

Our tax money should ONLY be used to bailout greed ventures after the top dogs of the outfit squander everything they've stolen from their clients and need more. Conservatism, the near-perfect system of control.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Good Evening Son

A hundred million dollars on a trillion dollar budget. Paltry indeed. I have no problem with NPR. I just find it innocuous. Others love it and others hate it not because they have to help pay for it but because they find it to be a threat to what they believe.

You are right about my first post. It was I suppose rhetorical. I tossed in a number of things I thought you might be inclined to take up, but as you haven't that's just fine.

Now my wife is calling for our nightly game of Scrabble.

Later.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Well we do need all of the programs. If not we may become a third world nation. The rich should pay more because they have more money. The poor should pay less. I am in the poor so I should pay less. As human beings we all need to look out after each other to make sure everyone has their basic need met. Why does anyone need 2 homes or 5 cars when people are suffering?
I am a liberal and for me it is not about government involvement but in what makes sense and what is the most humane thing to do. I am for small business,small government and less taxes myself. Social Security should never be cut or any other benefits unless another program is enstated that will help people more.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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When companies pay 0% in taxes, that's not exactly paying an excessive amount of tax in my book. But conservatives want to LOWER that 0%.

Conservatives think it's fine to give out farm subsidies, or give oil companies subsidies. They don't think this is wasteful spending.

How about closing the loopholes in the tax code first before we force poor multi-billion dollar companies to pay less tax?

How about cutting the military budget in half and removing the Unconstitutional departments of the Air Force and the Marines?

But no, lets take away Medicare, let's take away Social Security, who cares if people had been paying into those programs for their entire lives, they shouldn't expect a return on something they paid for. That's socialism, because every good conservative buys something and then leaves the store without taking it, because THATS capitalism!



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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Here's a question for the Liberal Left,

Why are you letting Obama force his EPA to give DOD a waiver for the TCE (trichloroethylend) in the bottom of the Guam Water table? Obama's getting it waivered this year.

Scroll down to where it says "Marbo Annex"

yosemite.epa.gov...


All those Marines, their wives, and their kids will be showering/drinking that. Is Obama also going to Waiver the Camp Lejeune water? Enough War...we own enough of the world. Can't we go 200 years without War to give Earth time to clean itself?

Why are you letting Obama do this???



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Ex Liberal here, after losing my POLITIK in 2005.

I have a few questions for you please.

1: Doesnt progressive now mean in FOX NEWS SPEAK "more government" specifically more Federal government thus was not the Founding fathers the original "Progressives"?

2: After the Declaration of Independence and then the Articles of Confederation which many thought was sufficient, until fear mongering and rumors of slave rebellion worried the upper class all except the "FEDERALISTS" seemed content so then, at that time, wouldnt the CONstitution easily be seen as PROGRESSIVE by definition? and wouldnt in turn the founding fathers who supported the constitution also be seen as Progressives? As anyone who has ever read the CONstitution can see that it stripped all rights from the Sovereign citizens as well as states and gave it to Congress?

3: Since the CONstitution basically subverted the Sovereignty of the people and the Free States why do so many Liberals as well as Conservatives always whine and cry that this or that is "against the constitution"?

4: Since the "act of 1871" in the 41st congress when they incorporated the UNITED STATES and created a CORPORATE CONSTITUTION entitled and yes in all caps "THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA", The treasons of 1917 and then 1933 when they shackled the IRS and FED on us like a yoke yet secretly ordered themselves like true CORPORATIST/FASCIST yet all the while the vast chasm between rich and poor and even the huge divide between rich and middle class has grown to a giant grand canyon of inequality, are you positive that you are one of these elite and not just a useful CONSERVATIVE/REPUBLICAN fool?????? and if you are one of them, how can you justify your concerns without cracking a greedy smile as you ask these kind of questions???


I mean really, let us extrapolate your religion which is called CAPITOLISM out a bit shall we?

If the current trend continues ALL the WEALTH will be in the hands of a teeny tiny minority while 99.9% will be completely dependent making all of the INCOME that they get flow right back into the hands of the Few, as it always has...

Oh I could rant on for days with no liberal bias at all I assure you. What you get from me is the LIBERTARIAN and the LOGICAL RATIONAL bias that any human being capable of critical thinking should also be capable of.

Please answer my questions and here is your answer.

We have been living in a fascist utopia for a minimum of 80 years.
The playing field has been so uneven for far too long for you to wish to now UP and walk away with your "winnings" at this time pilgrim.
The Wealth of the Elite top 1-10% has been allowed to grow almost exponentially with the help of the Corporate/Fascist government while your bought and paid for Politicians/Puppets of Propoganda masquerade about like so many little confused yet benevolent ballerinas while dramatic soundtracks, produced by superb Ministers of Propoganda from MSNBC, CNN and FOX NEWS aka The Media Monopoly, play in the background.

The only thing that kept the middle silent for so long was their bribe, their 30 sheckles, and apparently you do not even want to share with them anymore yet what will you do without your middle class WEDGE?

No, I do not want to take their money away as I have seen their system and it has failed.
It has failed even beyond the most greedy central banksters wildest dreams and I am prepared to be judged and thus I judge and I find you guilty of treason most high and all manner of mass manipulations which tread contrary to the benefit of all mankind, to life and liberty.

No, I can now see beyond money, beyond credits, beyond this illusion and soon they will also, they also known as WE THE PEOPLE..... and they will not be happy, not anymore anyways....

You will look to RON PAUL yet he will tell you that USURY is a good thing per the austrian school of economic thought. He will say END THE FED yet it will be progressive as it will involve more government yet get this, the fed blames the politicians, the politicians blame the Fed.... who you gonna trust to screw you less???

No, keep your fake/fiat paper and go ahead and leave the game if you wish as we were playing long before you sat down and I reckon we will still be playing long after you are gone, pilgrim.....

So again, to answer your question as a Libertarian Human Being who use to be an ignorant flaming liberal.....
No, keep it........ as from the looks if it...... you seem to be the one who truly needs alot of it......

Nemo me impune laccessit



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by Pervius
 


Neither the Left nor the right allowed anyone do anything.

We have DIEBOLD ESS VOTER FRAUD that you really need to check out....for starters.

We have executive orders that few understand that can easily subvert the CONstitution.

We have a CONstitution which was the original subversion that EVERYONE and their grandmothers are trying to use as the basis of our rights and thats plain BS as our rights were simply something that we started to believe that we had and then soon became willing to fight and die for.

The Magna carta has an interesting birth story, something else that most people should understand.
Wow, how a simple ploy turned into a full fledged rebellion which led to our understanding of SOVEREIGNTY.

We have a dumbing down project that is concerted by the authors of the textbooks and the monopoloy of three printers/publishers of all the textbooks and many simply copy the conservative education as promoted in the great state of Texas!

The fake news could start tomorrow and tell every truthism that was ever withheld from public view and I bet if you listen closely the only thing you would hear would be the drool hitting the remote control


Oh we Gots many reasons to explain how only a very select few are actually ALLOWING anything to occur.
The majority on the left and the right are so led by their Glenn Becks, their Olbermanns and their Wolf/Coopers that they seem thoroughly incapable of even the most primitive of brain function.

Oh yeah, Beck is putting all the pieces together man, he is so intense... muah hahahahahah muahahahahah



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


She sounds worthless and a strain on the system. Eat her. Save society and the tax payers before she devours our dollars!



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 12:48 AM
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edit on 5-4-2011 by GrisGris because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by Pervius
 





“When we start talking about all of our men and women across all our services deployed in foxholes around the world, yet we’re kind of dangling this thing that we may or may not be able to pay [them] … that is certainly on their minds,” said Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force James Roy, who testified Wednesday with the other senior enlisted advisors before the House Appropriations Committee’s military construction and veterans affairs panel.

www.navytimes.com...


say what.....they just started yet another war, and they aren't sure if they can pay the troops????
not to mention, has anyone caught on that technically, it seems that american seems to be funding both sides of this war....
the fed has sent alot of money to overseas banks, on of them being a bank partially owned by the libyan gov't....

I don't think anyone is "letting them" do anything...
they are in the mindset that they are gonna do whatever they want, and well, if we don't like it, tough...

and well....

www.nbclosangeles.com...

what's with this crap?? they must be getting training from the Isrealis or something.....
somewhere there's a few poor saps that own the cdo's to that house, and they've done destroyed it!!
just like they are gonna destroy yours, if you have the nerve to speak too loudly against anything they are doing!!
It's time to end the left/right bickering and well....accept the idea that neither party is working for "We The People"!!!
They are vampires sucking the lifeblood out of our country, and they don't give a dang!! they've already moved most of their operations, at least the most important part.....the manufacturing.....to where there's fresh blood to be had!!

lol....sorry, had to fit the house into this post somehow.....
I read the story wondering if the guy was renting it, and just how the landlord must feel if it was!!
we have the internet, and we have the audience here, let's put up a few of our own candidates, outside of the two bought out parties.....even if we don't take the vote, we probably could come up with enough support to get them to take notice, maybe stop acting so darned belligerant about things....
before we are all broke and pennyless and they come to bulldoze our houses or something???



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
I have to agree with the OP, corporate bailouts are a much better use of our tax dollars. We might as well be feeding the greediest hogs at the trough. We certainly don't want any of that moeny being spent on infrastructure, education, or anything else so frivilous. Darn better make sure none of those poor folk get any - it's their choice to be poor, right?

Our tax money should ONLY be used to bailout greed ventures after the top dogs of the outfit squander everything they've stolen from their clients and need more. Conservatism, the near-perfect system of control.
To me those are just entitlement programs like SS, medicaid, et al. All subsidies, bailouts, entitlements and any other non-Constitutional spending needs to be ended.



posted on Apr, 5 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by sonofliberty1776
 


Well we do need all of the programs. If not we may become a third world nation. The rich should pay more because they have more money. The poor should pay less. I am in the poor so I should pay less. As human beings we all need to look out after each other to make sure everyone has their basic need met. Why does anyone need 2 homes or 5 cars when people are suffering?
I am a liberal and for me it is not about government involvement but in what makes sense and what is the most humane thing to do. I am for small business,small government and less taxes myself. Social Security should never be cut or any other benefits unless another program is enstated that will help people more.
Exactly how would that cut taxes? As for the rich paying "more" and the poor "less" a flat tax would accomplish that as would the "fair tax".





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