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The Greatest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind

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posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by 23432

You obviously don't believe in Islam and it's teachings .
Why are you bothered ?


Because I once DID believe in Islam. It irritates me to see anyone else taken in by that scam these days.



Desert dwelling is not entirely true btw .
Djinns will dwelwe everywhere on earth and beyond .


What other culture believes in the Djinn? None that I know of. They are desert dwellers. If you trace the history of the Djinn back, they can be found all the way back to the Sumerians, and even at that remote time were believed to be dwellers in the deserts and remote, waste places.



Local spirits ?

Watch out they may be cousins of Djinns or they might be Djinns masquerading as local spirits .




Going into any greater detail on that subject would lead off topic, so I'll let it slide - other than to say there are no Djinn in North America. Weeshi Moneto has barred their entry. We already have enough tricksters here.






edit on 2011/4/6 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


you have had over twelve hours to reply to me with the names and credentials, along with links to articles where they agree with your position, of these so called "scholars" . you have failed to do so.


you are therefore, a liar.



also i would like to call for a closure of this thread as the OP has provided none of the requested or demanded sources.
edit on 6-4-2011 by optimus primal because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


What is Weeshi Moneto?



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by teapot
 


Inside joke. It's Shawnee for "the Good Spirit" - what other folks call "the Great Spirit". Shawnees only call it "the Good Spirit". We're a hard bunch to please, I reckon.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Thank you nenothtu! Your spiritual journey seems pretty unique!

Is this Good or Great Spirit the spirit of the Earth? What is the nature of the relationship between this spirit and the spirit of the living God?



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



I would like to discuss it with you but really , you are not a believer anymore , so it is a pointless exercise imho .

Djinn is a generic name for an entity which was also created by the same creator which you don't believe in .

You see where this goes to ?

Let's agree to disagree .

The warning is meant for those who have faith in this book and it's author .

As for it being a scam , i presume you mean the religion of Islam I guess .

If Islam is indeed a hoax , who is the swindler ?

Who benefits from such a perpetual scam ?

1400 years of scamming and hoaxing , I wonder who gets the nickels here and how do they do it ?

Do you know ?




edit on 6-4-2011 by 23432 because: addition



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Thank you nenothtu! Your spiritual journey seems pretty unique!

Is this Good or Great Spirit the spirit of the Earth? What is the nature of the relationship between this spirit and the spirit of the living God?


It's a bit complex, but trying to simplify it and streamline it, the Good Spirit or Great Spirit was understood by several of the eastern tribes (Algonquian related ) to be a cognate of the same God that the missionaries preached. In more pure terms, it was the highest spirit (not to be confused with the Creator, which DID create some confusion back in the day). I suppose you could think of it as the "Chief Spirit", if you think of the spiritual realm as a tribe.

The confusion as to the Creator comes in where the missionaries considered God to be the Creator, and the Shawnees considered Grandmother Kokumthena to be the Creator. To them, the Creator was a subordinate, rather than the same being. She also wove a web of destiny for all, the story being that when the weaving was finished, the world would end. Every night, after she fell asleep at the fire weaving, her little dog would sneak up and unravel what she had woven that day, thus saving the world from the end of destiny.

Where Whites see a "man in the moon", Shawnees see Kokumthena stirring a pot of food, if you know what to look for, you can make it out. She's wearing a doeskin skirt.

The Thunderbirds were also believed to be spirits. There were alleged to be 4 of them, the Truthbringers.

Like I said, it gets rather involved.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by 23432
reply to post by nenothtu
 



I would like to discuss it with you but really , you are not a believer anymore , so it is a pointless exercise imho .


Don't mistake my lack of belief in one particular system to be a lack of belief altogether.



Djinn is a generic name for an entity which was also created by the same creator which you don't believe in .


OH, I believe in a Creator, just not Allah. Nor do I buy the line that Allah is the same God as the Christians and Jews have. They are too dissimilar. From what I've been able to deduce on internal evidence of the Qur'an and the Hadith, the Abrahamic God was co-opted, usurped if you will, and made to conform to the image that Mohammed wanted him to have, which was then projected on to the Allah of the Ka'aba. Mohammed then destroyed those idols in the Ka'aba in order to make the new religion conform to the other Abrahamic religions, which specify a prohibition against graven images (and potentially to try to hide the evidence for Allah's origins), although I'm open to other interpretations of his rationale for doing that. I've heard others, less charitable, but prefer to stick with my own instead of them. Either way, it sure made the merchants of Makkah a bit annoyed with him, didn't it?

That, in a nutshell, is why I am no longer a Muslim.



Let's agree to disagree .


I don't have a problem with that. I have a number of Islamic friends even now, and I don't usually discuss matters of religion with them. We get along swell, although politics sometimes gets put off limits as well. I really CAN agree to disagree.



The warning is meant for those who have faith in this book and it's author .


Does that mean that in your view, the Djinn hold no sway over non-muslims? Or that we just don't rate a warning? I'm not willing to give them the power of belief.



As for it being a scam , i presume you mean the religion of Islam I guess .


Not limited to it, of course, but certainly including Islam in my opinion.



If Islam is hoax , who is the swindler ?

Who benefits from such a perpetual scam ?


Originally, Mohammed and the Companions, and to a lesser extent those who fought under them. Do you recall the division of war spoils? I really don't think they ever expected Islam to outlive them, but after Mohammed was poisoned and died, and the rebellion of the converted tribes was quelled in the wake of that death - by Umar, was it? - Islam took to the field. in that conquest, they ran across more riches "out there" among the "converts", and of course there was profit to be had.

Have you ever seen Mohammed's sword? The one in Medinah? Just look at the jewels on it! Then, as now, there seems to have been profit in being a prophet!

As time rolled on, and the conquest widened, there was of course more booty to be had from the conquered. Quite a lot of it seems to have been used to keep the Sultans and Caliphs in the opulence to which they would like to be accustomed. Some of it was distributed to the fighters themselves, to keep them working.

Are you familiar with the Battle of Tours? Do you know what the downfall of the muslim host arrayed against Martel was? He had them tied up, but was losing (or at best at a stalemate), and so sent a squadron to capture the booty they had collected. The results were predictable - the muslim warriors abandoned the field to protect the booty train, were routed and destroyed on account of that desertion, and the rest is history. They killed their own general in that route because he tried to get them to stand and fight instead of run back to protect the collected booty, didn't they?

See, Martel was fighting for his homeland, but the muslims, contrary to popular belief, weren't fighting for homeland or Allah. Their reaction to the raid on their stores shows what they were REALLY fighting for.

Remember the punchline of Aesop's Fable about the Fox and the Hare - the Fox was only running for his supper, but the Hare was running for his life!

Motivation is everything in such situations.



1400 years of scamming and hoaxing , I wonder who gets the nickels here and how do they do it ?

Do you know ?


Yes. Now is much like then, but more surreptitious. As has always been, the soldiers do all the fighting, but the kings are the "heroes".

RICH heroes.



edit on 2011/4/6 by nenothtu because: of bad speeling and hurried typing.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


I see that you have some bones to pick with history of Islam .


Djinns hold sway over non-muslims too . Warning is for those who believe in the existence of such entity called Djinn .

Do you believe Djinn lives ?

I sure do .



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by of the Ether
Yes much agreed, that really is the greatest hoax of all. Our religion, history, even science has been shaped and fitted to match the needs of whatever yarn the Elite wants to spin. A game. It keeps mankind at odds with each other, and out of their hair to do what they want right under our preoccupied little noses.


Indeed. Spot on.. plus don't forget they get our money and can use us to fight their wars for them and such.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by of the Ether
Yes much agreed, that really is the greatest hoax of all. Our religion, history, even science has been shaped and fitted to match the needs of whatever yarn the Elite wants to spin. A game. It keeps mankind at odds with each other, and out of their hair to do what they want right under our preoccupied little noses.


Indeed. Spot on.. plus don't forget they get our money and can use us to fight their wars for them and such.



Granted this is how the elite plays the non elite .

Another question would be to wonder about whether the elite is only exploiting what is already there in the majority of us non elites ?




posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by 23432
reply to post by nenothtu
 


I see that you have some bones to pick with history of Islam .



Well, to be fair, that's just my take on the history of Islam, from what I've studied of it, in my own words. I'll wager you've never heard some of it put quite like I do. I don't really have bone to pick with it (other than my take on the origins of Allah - that seems to me to be just plain wrong, a theft of someone else's gods, just as the Catholic Church did in Europe). as far as the conquests go, well, that's just the way folks related to one another back then. It wasn't just Islam doing it. The Battle of Tours, though, tells me that at least some Muslims of the time, if not a majority of them, were not fighting for Allah as we've been told, but were instead fighting for Mammon. Reinforcing that notion is the fact that the Southern Arab tribes recanted Islam and went back to their old ways right after Mohammed died - they figured the jig was up, no more war booty to be had, so Islam then had no more pull on them than their previous religion.

So no, no real bone to pick. They were no better nor any worse than most of the rest of the world of those times.



Djinns hold sway over non-muslims too . Warning is for those who believe in the existence of such entity called Djinn .

Do you believe Djinn lives ?

I sure do .


I believe in the possibility that they exist, but I also believe that if they do, they are limited to their home grounds, and hold no sway over anyone beyond those areas. I also believe that, if they exist, they are not nearly as powerful as they are made out to be. If they were, there would be no need for their trickster aspects.

Basically, I believe that to hold them in any sort of awe or fear gives them unwarranted power over the individual who does so. NO ONE, not even Djinn (mythical or not), can cage a man as effectively as he can cage himself. To hold any such beings or entities in that sort of awe and fear, man, beast, Djinn demon, angel, alien, or whatever, a man is effectively building his own cage, and giving them the key to it.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



So no, no real bone to pick. They were no better nor any worse than most of the rest of the world of those times.


Well , one thing is for sure , prior to Islam arriving to these lands , it was a common tradition for locals to bury their own daughters alive in desert .
This was done by the hand of the father .
Reasoning was that these girls were surplus to needs of family and society in general .
These idolworshippers were justifying the killing of their own innocent children .
That is the background Islam comes out from .

After the arrival of Islam , locals stopped killing their own children .

Factually speaking , I think locals have benefited from Islam , particularly little defenseless baby girls with heathens as parents .

You believe in the possibility of Djinn .

So the issue for you never arises really . For all intents and purposes , this subject shouldn't effect your way of being .

You also seem to think human is an ultimate master of self .


Not all Djinns are baaad ones .

Lucky for us humans that there are good Djinns too .



Have you given the good Djinns a tought or two ?

Why should you ignore them ?

Because they are not baaadasssseess ?



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


That is not backed by scholarly work.


That is your opinion - their apparently differs.



I mean real scholars, not "scholars"


what - they aren't scholars bcause they don't fit your definition?

Apparently you are happy for scolars of islam to be defined as scholars by islam.....so why should scholars of scientology not be defined by scientology?

Of course that's a rhetorical question - no religon has any real scholars anyway - except of its history - it is all the biggest hoax the world has ever seen...as others ahve pointed out.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by 23432

Factually speaking , I think locals have benefited from Islam , particularly little defenseless baby girls with heathens as parents .


I have no doubt that the locals of the Arabian peninsula benefited from Islam, especially the poorer sorts. It was a harsh culture in a harsh environment. Other folks, in other areas, with other customs probably didn't realize the same benefits. The richer sorts also realized their benefits, but not of the same type that the poorer sorts did,

The merchants of Makkah took a big hit in profits from the pre-Islamic Haj journeys to the idols in the ka'aba, but it seems not to have worried the survivors for very long. Caravan raids by the muslims on the merchant's caravans also caused some grief (i.e. the Battle of Badr), but again not for long.

All in all, I believe it to be a religion uniquely suited to that environment and culture, but not so well suited to several of the environments and cultures that it has been exported to, or attempted to have been exported to.

By the same token, the western culture of "democracy", as represented in the form that the US is trying to install in the Middle East is not suited to that environment or culture, either, and should not be attempted to be exported there.

In both cases, the only tangible results of those attempts will be bad blood. It seems we ought to all be able to get along like big kids, without trying to force either's ways on the others.



You believe in the possibility of Djinn .


Yes, the possibility. One has to entertain possibilities.



So the issue for you never arises really . For all intents and purposes , this subject shouldn't effect your way of being .


No, it doesn't affect my being.



You also seem to think human is an ultimate master of self .



Yes, That's what I believe. It may not turn out so well for that individual in the end, or it may, but his ultimate fate is his own choice. It may all depend on whether or not he is ABLE to master himself. Lots of people can't. Nothing will control him that he doesn't allow to control him. In that sense, he has ultimate control over himself, whether for good or for bad.

Even the Qur'an says that there is no compulsion in matters of religion. Would that everyone could live by that, and discuss things like grownups.



Not all Djinns are baaad ones .

Lucky for us humans that there are good Djinns too .



Have you given the good Djinns a tought or two ?

Why should you ignore them ?

Because they are not baaadasssseess ?


No, I should ignore them because, like the "bad Djinn", they have no power HERE to affect me. They are as incapable of affecting me for good as the bad are of affecting me for ill. Being a "badass" or not really doesn't even enter the equation - neither on their part nor mine.

Only twice in my life have any "unexplainable" things affected me to the point of sheer terror. One was a flesh and blood animal, and the other was not. As I get older, I begin to wonder if they were not hallucinations, and in the case of the latter, I'm leaning towards "yes".

Sure did get my attention while it was going on, though!


In any even, I hold no fear or hope for any Djinn, good OR bad, whether they be spirit, alien, or imagination. However, "aliens" have been reported here, and since I know Djinn have no power here for whatever reason, I can be reasonably sure that Djinn and aliens are not the same thing.


edit on 2011/4/6 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by 23432

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Originally posted by of the Ether
Yes much agreed, that really is the greatest hoax of all. Our religion, history, even science has been shaped and fitted to match the needs of whatever yarn the Elite wants to spin. A game. It keeps mankind at odds with each other, and out of their hair to do what they want right under our preoccupied little noses.


Indeed. Spot on.. plus don't forget they get our money and can use us to fight their wars for them and such.



Granted this is how the elite plays the non elite .

Another question would be to wonder about whether the elite is only exploiting what is already there in the majority of us non elites ?




Nah, they've been grooming us humans for millennia to be that gullible and weak. Behind various faces and masks through out the ages, they've been at it---since almost the beginning of our time of sentience, from what I see in the racial unconscious.


They've always wanted to enslave humanity, but we're a difficult bunch to control, and thus far their biggest success was the dark ages. Them on top and all the rest of us as peons and slaves. Just the way they like it and think it should be.



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Nah, they've been grooming us humans for millennia to be that gullible and weak.


What sort of effeminate patsy elite is it that has failed to do such a simple task afte so many eyars??

I want an elite that can at least accomplish such a basic task, not some bunch of pathetic ineffective hideaway influence peddlers!!

I DEMAND A NEW AND EFFECTIVE ELITE DAMMIT!!



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by DragonriderGal

Nah, they've been grooming us humans for millennia to be that gullible and weak.


What sort of effeminate patsy elite is it that has failed to do such a simple task afte so many eyars??

I want an elite that can at least accomplish such a basic task, not some bunch of pathetic ineffective hideaway influence peddlers!!

I DEMAND A NEW AND EFFECTIVE ELITE DAMMIT!!




*lol* Oh believe me, they are NOT the sharpest tools in the shed. The only reason they've gotten so far with it this time is because they've been at it for hundreds of thousands of years, and learned a little from their past failures. We humans are really way too much for them, but they are too arrogent to admit it and quit!



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by optimus primal
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


you have had over twelve hours to reply to me with the names and credentials, along with links to articles where they agree with your position, of these so called "scholars" . you have failed to do so.


you are therefore, a liar.



also i would like to call for a closure of this thread as the OP has provided none of the requested or demanded sources.
edit on 6-4-2011 by optimus primal because: (no reason given)


The list is posted previously:
en.wikipedia.org...

Look up this guy for example: Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj Nishapuri
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Apr, 6 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Originally posted by Nobama
reply to post by 23432
 


too bad Allah is fake and not a reliable source..


Do you know who allah is?


An Arab Lunar Deity housed in the Ka'aba previous to Islam. A statue, one among 360 or so that were housed there.



LOL Allah is not a lunar deity. You know nothing about Islam. The Kaaba is a symbol representing Allah. Since there needed to be a universal direction to bow down to the Kaaba was made. It does not mean that Allah is inside it lmao. Allah is everywhere.




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