Are you a "targeted individual" or a paranoid schizophrenic?

If you input the word "targeted individual" (TI) or "gangstalking" in a Search Engine you will find Forums, Discussion Boards, Reports and Sites of Millions of Individuals who claim to be victims of Government harassment, Gang harassment, electronic harassment, psychotronic harassment, remote mind control, group stalking.

If most of this is true it is important because it would mean that there is a lot going on that is outrageous and illegal and we`d have to act on it.

If most of this is untrue it is important because it means that there are millions of mentally ill people running around without getting proper help.

No matter which side of the debate you are on, this is an emergency-issue. This thread asks the question whether the majority of this phenomena is due to...

1. Psychotronic/Remote Mind Control Harassment

2. Paranoid Schizophrenia/Mental Illness

3. Demonic/Entity Possession

4. Overactive Imagination

5. Other Causes

There are a lot of people around who seem unable to view this from any other than their own position. I really do think that all five are possible, even after looking into the subject for some time. Meanwhile I have become somewhat a skeptic because in lengthy conversations with TI's I have found that they fail to produce evidence and fail to desire or act for a resolution of the issue much more preferring to remain a victim of overpowering circumstances. I get impatient with this. I ask "Why dont you go have that checked?" and "Why dont you set up a camera at your window?" and "Why dont you have your brain scanned to see whether it is really true if you have a brain implant?" and "Why dont you get help?" but very little initiative comes from these people. I am willing to be open-minded enough to consider that they are really being targeted by psychotronic devices of the Government or that they are really being gangstalked, but are they willing to consider they may be wrong and that their minds are making it all up?

If there is ever going to be some resolution and learning on these issues, they need to be discussed from all sides. No thanks to the media who pretends the problem does not exist.

Thoughts?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thanks for getting this one started, Sky. F&S for the effort!

Ever since a Fox Doctor started flapping his gums about a
large majority of the American population (what was it, 83%
at the time) being delusional for mistrusting the government;
I knew the blanket psy-op was on. 9/11 or not, if a person is
characterized as dangerous to the public safety because his
non-violent belief system doesn't follow the party line, I submit
he's dangerous to just the 'public sector' because he's awake.

The reason 'they' won't get away with the control mechanism
in this case is-- you're suppposed to single individual wierdos
out (like us) and loot them for as long as you can. It pads profit
centers better if you can work in bulk, like the court system.
I have a couple of personal experiences like this back in Illinois
(that I'm actually still experiencing) because there's a lot of money
to be made by calling somebody crazy and sticking his butt out
in the snow for twenty or so years until he cheers up.
I've paid dearly for my principles, but doing the right thing can
cost you everything sometimes: look at what happened to a lot
of those fellows that signed the Declaration. I figure it like this:
if all I get is to be a permanent pedestrian for a misdemeanor
almost twenty years ago, I got off light, didn't I?

Finally, I don't believe it's a paranoid delusion if you read a policy
paper about what 'they' are proposing to do to you; and it reads
like a signed confession before the fact. Besides-- ignorance of
the Uniform Commercial Code is the patriarch of all profit centers.

Cheers, and the more THOSE clowns call you crazy, the less
often you should feel required to visit Pavlov's grandson.

reply to post by Skyfloating

4. Overactive Imagination

5. Other Causes

I think personally, I'm more inclined to believe that out of all the options you yourself highlighted in your OP, an overactive imagination and or "other causes" are the most plausible explanations for the majority of those believing they are "targeted individuals".

Looking at ATS as an example, have you ever noticed how one of the most likely conclusions a member will seem to come to - on average, when faced with a mere warning tag that hides there post for being off-topic, or rude or whatever, Is that they are being silenced and or censored for whatever reason? I know I myself have seen annoyed users start a thread specifically asking "why was I censored" or something to that effect, countless times already.

The content they may be sharing may not exactly be something groundbreaking and or enlightening or anything like that really, but the conclusion is seemingly always the same from the vast majority still. That being so, I wouldn't necessarily call these individuals paranoid Schizophrenics, or victims of a conspiracy to destroy the mind from with-in. Maybe It's just me, but I'd personally attribute this kind of behavior to nothing but an over active imagination and looking for a conspiracy where there is none at all (let's face it, the latter (the personal conspiracy against one) is an interesting and more exciting conclusion to come to as opposed to anything else).

Not that I’m saying all instances of people claiming to have been targeted for whatever reason are merely attention-seekers or people with an over active imagination or something to that effect even, as I'm sure some are spot on with there conclusions of being targeted. But, seriously, can each and everyone of them really be a victim of this? I just don't think so. Sometimes I get the feeling most people wish to be conspired against going from the conclusions they have come to on ATS...

Anyway, that's just my thoughts on the majority of those whom feel as though they are being conspired against. Admittedly, this is an interesting main point of discussion for a thread. Coming to an overall and personal conclusion I imagine would be difficult. Out of curiosity though, Sky, which position do you subscribe to? Maybe I missed it but I think I could only see you mentioning that you say you think each of the points you brought up were possible, but which one would you see as the most likely?

Well, we know people have, in fact, been targeted -- that it does really happen all the time. People being delusional also happens all the time. If I were targeting people, I would be quite pleased if there was already a large, easily discredited pool of people claiming to be targeted, because that would ensure anyone who really was being targeted would never be believed.

Exactly how organized, motivated and directed are we thinking a paranoid schizophrenic can be? I'm sure they can find such communities once they exist. I'm even sure some would have the ability to build and maintain them. The fact that the majority of schizophrenics are extremely anti-social -- that withdrawal is one of the diagnostic criteria -- also doesn't have to mean they wouldn't be motived to seek regular, organized social contact in these circumstances. But to me, all this means is that, if I wanted to ensure the survival and flourishing of such a community, I wouldn't have to engage in a particularly complicated agenda to do so. I'd just have to provide the basics, bridge the gaps and keep nudging it all along.

But then, I would say that, because I'm a paranoid schizophrenic.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Listen guys....

Since I am a grad student in psychology who learns, DAILY, how to properly diagnose the truly mentally ill, let me settle this thread very quickly.

I have mentioned this in a preponderance of other threads, but people still live in this fantasy world.

According to the DSM, which is the manual for diagnosing mental disorders...

First, no such diagnosis exists for the term "paranoid schizophrenic"

The term was at one time accepted, but as research invalidated its specificity, it was changed to drop the term paranoid.

In order to meet certain qualifications related to schizophrenia, then religious or political beliefs DO NOT QUALIFY TO MEET THE STANDARDS FOR DIAGNOSIS.

A doctor who is halfway worth a snot would never, in a million years, diagnose someone due to political beliefs.

If someone thinks that they have a brain implant, that does not meet the qualifications for schizophrenic...
Because, first, before a doctor should diagnose, they should check to see if one exists.
And low and behold sometimes brain implants do exist.

Ask the soldiers who recently filed suit against the government for being unknowingly implanted.

And just for kicks let's say that they do not have a brain implant, then some other anomaly could be happening in the brain that they interpret as an implant.
That is not "paranoid schizophrenia".

As a matter of fact, they could be having a focal paranoid episode, but it is not a disorder unless other qualifications are met also. Because experiencing the feeling of paranoia is a rational human emotion.

Before anyone starts spreading patently false pop culture misinformation on the subject of psychology, then I suggest studying both the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders...

Or if someone specifically wishes to expound on the also pop culture term "paranoid schizophrenic" then I suggest looking at the qualifications for Schizophrenia:

But more specifically the subtype of a schizophrenic named paranoid.
So that would mean that someone is not a paranoid schizophrenic, but a schizophrenic with a paranoid subtype.
Let's look at the description of a schizophrenic with the subtype of paranoia.

Where delusions and hallucinations are present but thought disorder, disorganized behavior, and affective flattening are absent.

link to source

Notice the term hallucinations or delusions.

A hallucination is when someone knows that they are hearing something that is not there.

A delusion is when an individual is hearing something that no one else can validate exists, but the individual believes wholly that it is real.

Now you could use that to validate your premise, but how do YOU know what they are saying is a delusion without direct interaction or observation.
You could equally be as delusional for believing that they are delusional without proof.

There is a reason why it is illegal to diagnose someone without observing them for an extended period of time.

Psychological diagnoses do not rely upon 3rd party observations.

This thread belongs in skunk works.

I agree with all of the above, except the assertion that "paranoid schizophrenic" and "schizophrenic of the paranoid subtype" are all that different. I get it, I just know that people diagnosed as the latter still use the former because it's frankly just an easier shorthand.

Also, I'm not sure the OP meant to diagnose people so much as to explore the topic of where issues of mental illness intersect with mystery-seeking communities, which seems like a valid area of discussion. That said, I agree completely that Diagnosis by Internet Syndrome is rampant. I see several cases every day.

I was doing character development for a story I will be writing, and wanted to get the mindset of paranoia. So I went to YouTube, the place of all knowledge and wisdom and information about mental illness. I found someone who had be a respected professional journalist, who believed anybody anywhere at anytime doing anything was a part of a " false flag domestic terrorism organized crime private stalking snitch network campaign". She would video tape all the cars around her in one of the busiest metropolitan areas in the states on Friday afternoon drive time, convince any car around her was stalking her. As were all her neighbors, all the people out walking, all the peole in planes overhead, all the people in the stores she shopped at, any computer or machine around her, all the plumbing, any motor, any space visible around any lighting fixture, doorjamb or window, every cloud in the sky......all were intent on spoiling her life.
I then looked at all of her "friends" who felt the same way.....just different items used depending on their environment.
Are these people to be believed? No. The number of peole who would be involved with just a small group of these "TI" would require that pretty much anybody is either a TI or a stalker.
They see, hear, smell, feel, even taste things that no one else does. That's schizophrenia.
I do believe that some of the people, are just imagining it. Like this woman's son, who she claims is also being targetted the same way. If he is, is because that is what he learned at home.
But the majority of people who make these claims are just really, really in need of psychiatric help. This woman was and still might be homeless after she lost all financial assistance and can't hold a job. She didn't have a car after she had her's repo'ed. She had venture after venture started, with no work actually being done on any of them.
Hopefully, she got help. She needed it badly.

Originally posted by Rising Against
Looking at ATS as an example, have you ever noticed how one of the most likely conclusions a member will seem to come to - on average, when faced with a mere warning tag that hides there post for being off-topic, or rude or whatever, Is that they are being silenced and or censored for whatever reason? I know I myself have seen annoyed users start a thread specifically asking "why was I censored" or something to that effect, countless times already.

Yes. Almost everyone who is actioned things he specifically is being silenced. Thats overactive imagination. But this "targeted individuals" business seems to be a little more serious. (?)

Originally posted by Rising Against
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

4. Overactive Imagination

5. Other Causes

I think personally, I'm more inclined to believe that out of all the options you yourself highlighted in your OP, an overactive imagination and or "other causes" are the most plausible explanations for the majority of those believing they are "targeted individuals".

Oh, of course, they cause wars that kill millions, and spend billions on "non-lethal" electromagnetic weapons development, but they would NEVER do anything like that. Nyuk.
That's what kills me about Anonymous (as in your av). On their sites, it's clear that anyone who believes that conspiracies are a prime mover in world political events are nuts. Even though conspiracies get exposed, patently, all the time.
I used to make my living designing and selling mind-altering machines, and I can tell you it would be no problem to cook up something that would damage someone's nervous system at a distance or even kill them.

Originally posted by Rising Against
Sky, which position do you subscribe to? Maybe I missed it but I think I could only see you mentioning that you say you think each of the points you brought up were possible, but which one would you see as the most likely?

I used to think those TI's might be TI's. Today Im more inclined to believe that they are not.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
4. Overactive Imagination

5. Other Causes

I would choose these and my "other causes" would be boredom, attention-seeking and self-absorption.

I agree with Rising Against. (Thanks for typing all that because now I don't have to).

reply to post by sepermeru


Thank for understanding my frustration with the phenomenon of pop culture psychology in our society.

They reason that I became frustrated with the thread is because you will notice that all the answers will revolve around "paranoid schizophrenia".
For some reason people are obsessed with that diagnosis.

My personal belief is that the government is truly evil to the core and most of what people considered paranoia at one time has been validated.
I could list government atrocities ad infinitum, but I am sure you know them.

The reason that paranoia became a subtype of schizophrenia is another false pop culture meme that has blown out of control.
Schizophrenia is characterize by incoherent thought and expressed by continual inappropriate affect.

The hallucinations and delusions caused by schizophrenia that do not produce the normal human range of affect (emotion) and allow the individual suffering to continue existing apparently coherently in the "real world" are the hallmark of a schizophrenic with a paranoid subtype.
But the key to that diagnosis is that the hallucinations or delusions CAN NOT be based upon religious or political beliefs.

Religion is not counted as a sign of schizophrenic behavior because religion is a sacred cow, no matter the cognitive dissonance it produces, it will always be left untouched.

And political beliefs are not counted as a sign of paranoia related to schizophrenia because too many unbelievable government sponsored secret operations against average people have turned out to be true.

Originally posted by Josephus23

A hallucination is when someone knows that they are hearing something that is not there.

A delusion is when an individual is hearing something that no one else can validate exists, but the individual believes wholly that it is real.

This distinction is interesting and useful.

This thread belongs in skunk works.

Im not making any claims. I opened this thread for asking questions and exploring various possibilities and opinions. There are a lot of individuals out there who are making quite serious allegations - that is not my speculative theory, that is a fact.

reply to post by stars15k


Thats an interesting and sad story.

Ive met my fair share of obviously disturbed people too. But then, Ive also met people who are lucid and at ease and still make similar claims.

Originally posted by grizzle2


Oh, of course, they cause wars that kill millions, and spend billions on "non-lethal" electromagnetic weapons development, but they would NEVER do anything like that. Nyuk.

They may cause wars...but do they target individuals? For what purpose? Seems like a waste of time to me.

My brother works in an insurance company and confirmed for me they often hire P.I's to investigate claims.

I was in an MVA and was being followed, taped, and phone lines tapped. It all stopped when my case got settled.

But everyone excluding my husband did not believe me. It's a hard thing to go through... so I can feel for T.I's.

I'd say schizo. I doubt there's enough personnel to gangstalk millions of people.

reply to post by Skyfloating


"even paranoid people have enemies"

for those claiming politics is not a factor:

Is Schizophrenia Really a Black Disease? bigthink.com...

Who decides what "insane" means? This was the major question of Ken Kesey's countercultural classic "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest," which illustrated how mental illness could be deployed by the establishment to crush the individual. But a recent book by University of Michigan psychiatry professor Jonathan Metzl suggests that Kesey's novel might not have been far from non-fiction. In "The Protest Psychosis: How Schizophrenia Became a Black Disease," Metzl documents the shifting interpretations of schizophrenia through the 20th century, tracing its evolution from a "white middle-class woman's disease" to an "African-American man's disease." Specifically, with the political upheaval of the civil rights movement, popular culture began to associate angry black men with schizophrenia, which in turn influenced the way doctors interpreted and diagnosed the illness.
***
"In particularly the early 1920s, 1930s, 1940s when the idea of schizophrenia itself was first coming to the United States from Europe there was a general assumption that persons who suffered from schizophrenia were either shy or calm or they were geniuses," Metzl says. "It was often represented as an illness that afflicted white novelists or poets and as I say, these were very often in popular and psychiatric representation assumed to be white people." But during the massive societal upheavals in the middle of century, ideas of sanity and insanity took on new meaning. "All of a sudden in the 1960s, American culture, newspapers, magazines, movies start to represent angry African-American men as in part being inflicted with a new form of this particular illness," and this change in popular perception of the disease directly influenced the clinical definition of it, Metzl argues. "All of a sudden in 1968, the second version of the Diagnostic Manual comes out and there is new language that says 'aggression, hostility, projection.'" The image of a schizophrenic person was all of a sudden more violent and unstable than the schizophrenic of 20 years before.

The practical consequences of this popular-cum-clinical shift in perception was that in the 1960s far more African-American men were institutionalized in psychiatric wards with schizophrenia. "Some had committed crimes, some had participated in civil rights protests, some had been participants in urban riots at the time. They all passed through various forms of the penal system and ended up diagnosed with schizophrenia and locked in the psychiatric wards," says Metzl. But were these men really schizophrenic? Or were they victims of shifting clinical definitions of disease, one that was prone to metaphoric interpretation?

How Schizophrenia Became a "Black Disease" bigthink.com...

i think your list pretty much covers all the bases, i think a percentage could be assigned to all of them

will u2u a member who mentions this stuff perhaps he'll contribute.