Death anxiety prompts people to believe in intelligent design, reject evolution: research

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by desert

 

Star for you!! Should have read your response before posting mine . . . could have just did the "ditto" thing. Good take . . . like the way you approach the subject.

Thank you, solomons. I will share something with you. My best friend, and I mean the kind of best friend one has till death parts us, is atheist. We have differing views on what happens after death, but we each share a view of Life that is entirely compatible with respect, dignity, courage and love.

Originally posted by desert
Thank you, solomons. I will share something with you. My best friend, and I mean the kind of best friend one has till death parts us, is atheist. We have differing views on what happens after death, but we each share a view of Life that is entirely compatible with respect, dignity, courage and love.

Thank you for recognizing and acknowledging that atheist isn't synonymous with amoral or inhuman.

reply to post by solomons path


Yes, I made a somewhat broad generalization in regard to exoteric versus esoteric. But my point is that atheistic materialism and "orthodox" religions, generally keep people in ignorance by trying to limit our options to mere belief and the data obtainable by the five senses only.

And is there really any separation between present life and the afterlife? There's a valid reason why the "afterlife" is studied in texts such as the Bardo Thodol (Tibetan Book of the Dead), etc. Such texts are studied with both the intellect and in practical meditation; not necessarily out of fear, but for the purpose of understanding.

This does not mean that we should become obsessed with death. I'm only suggesting that we consider opening our (Inner) Mind, in order to learn something about it.

Exoteric religion has already served its purpose for humanity's evolution. We need something a lot more potent now; because this humanity is rapidly degenerating and devolving, and is exponentially piling massive karma upon itself.

I'm not suggesting that we completely discard the basic morals of exoteric religion (Vinaya, Shariah, Ten Commandments, etc.), because we do need that at first as a solid foundation for our esoteric practices.

reply to post by timewalker

This has been increasingly obvious to me over the past 10 years as I've grown older and witnessed more death.

I don't have an answer yet. I still fear it. I still have anxiety. I still yearn for those that're gone.

If I could push a button and make us all healthy and strong eternally I would. I don't think there's anything noble about dying. It's just a forced disaster that we cannot prevent. So people turn to spirituality to cope. But if I had the chance to reduce some of htis misery I would. I think it's odd that once people touch misery they desire to keep it that way and not run to the light to escape when it's offered to them. I'm not saying vainly that we can live forever. I'm only saying that death for deaths sake is a point of view that should not belong to the living.

The adage that we'll all die so we shouldn't try to live longer is just a coping mechanism. It's the same thing as believing in a god that'll save you or believing that death is good for us. It's like believing that a man who has kidnapped you and plans to kill you truly loves you and what he does to you is best for you. It's hte talk of mad men blinded by darkness.

I believe the anxiety we feel about death should be embraced, not shunned or removed. Only by acknowleding this truth and being honest and feeling the pain can we make progress towards removing some of hte misery in this world. We can never eliminate it, but we must move forward even when people give up and scream to the others to give up. Even when the storm clouds come over us and the darkness fills the land and the people willingly die and doubt spreads like plague. We must move forward. Don't look back att hose who have given up. Try to save them, but do not get caught in their blindness. Move forward when they decline your offer to help.

Feel the pain and use it to fill you with the courage and energy you need to fight and overcome. Remember those that have died. Remember history. Don't be shallow. Be deep. Move forward!

To love is to live. A women who has not been beautiful has not been young. A few proverbs.

The opposite of live is evil. To be evil is to be darkness. Don't willingly let darkness swallow you.

Oh my gosh, what a tired subject of research. Why would it even be a question? Of course people are more likely to entertain the idea of something other than a bleak non-existence when they are closer to finding out for sure themselves. I don't understand why people against the notion of spiritualism drool all over themselves as if this obvious correlation somehow proves there is no God or afterlife. It's ridiculous.

God (or any other element of theism) either exist or does not exist. The reality does not change with the ebb and flow of believers.

Originally posted by Cuervo
Oh my gosh, what a tired subject of research. Why would it even be a question? Of course people are more likely to entertain the idea of something other than a bleak non-existence when they are closer to finding out for sure themselves.

But why would anybody assume death could be a bleak non-existence? We were dead before we were conceived, and we came to life. When I was a child, I always felt deep down that there was something to reincarnation...and I notice many children feel that way, without being taught about it. We are energy, and energy never stops, it just keeps changing.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Cuervo
Oh my gosh, what a tired subject of research. Why would it even be a question? Of course people are more likely to entertain the idea of something other than a bleak non-existence when they are closer to finding out for sure themselves.

But why would anybody assume death could be a bleak non-existence? We were dead before we were conceived, and we came to life. When I was a child, I always felt deep down that there was something to reincarnation...and I notice many children feel that way, without being taught about it. We are energy, and energy never stops, it just keeps changing.

You are a theist, then. At the very least, an agnostic. An atheist does not believe in anything spiritual or a possibility of an afterlife. To believe in reincarnation is to believe in something beyond the bread and butter science we are allowed to believe on a secular level. That alone sets you apart from atheists.

Allowed to believe in?

Science isn't a religion of secularity, and if you don't recognize that you abuse it more than any Texan school board.

Originally posted by Cuervo
You are a theist, then. At the very least, an agnostic.

Yeah, I consider myself a spiritual agnostic. I very strongly feel organized religion is a bad thing, as we all see again and again that it leads alot of people to judge and separate themselves from others, and even justifies violence in the eyes of otherwise decent people. Atheists are easier to coexist with, but I feel kinda sorry for them. It would suck to think that after we die, it's nothing but infinite oblivion. Alot like religious zealots, they think they have everything all figured out, but instead of basing it strictly on an old book, they base it strictly on newer books. Our science is far from evolved to the point of explaining the energy that drives life, IMO.

There is proof of life after death, since again, we were all dead before our energy sparked life in our bodies. Think about the earth before you were born, who you are now was nowhere to be found. Not alive, dead. Somewhere in our eternal oblivion, we popped into this current existence when we came to life. Einstein said energy can never stop, and just keeps changing. Who knows how many different levels of existence there may be. I wonder if somehow we could unlock the 90% of our brains that we don't use, we would know the answers to these things. I think anybody who has really thought about it, sometimes feels like the answer is right there, just out of reach within.

That or I'm just crazy...either way, I feel strongly there is more.

reply to post by Cuervo

Oh my gosh, what a tired subject of research. Why would it even be a question?

Just because ‘everybody knows’ something doesn’t mean it is true. Science insists on falsifiable evidence. That is why its findings are reliable. Surely you wouldn’t want it any other way?

I don't understand why people against the notion of spiritualism drool all over themselves as if this obvious correlation somehow proves there is no God or afterlife. It's ridiculous.

Atheists tend to be more intelligent and better-educated than theists, so it is not likely that many of us would fall into such a foolish logical error.

We like this correlation not because it proves anything about God or the afterlife, but because it explains why relatively less intelligent people defend the creationist position so passionately. And yes, of course we knew it already in an intuitive kind of way; but now we have the statistics to prove it.

The reality does not change with the ebb and flow of believers.

Bravo! we’ll make an atheist out of you yet.

Originally posted by Astyanax
Science insists on falsifiable evidence. That is why its findings are reliable. Surely you wouldn’t want it any other way?

I understand why atheists find it so easy to dismiss organized religion, and the notion of some bearded man sitting on a cloud judging everybody. Heaven and hell are man made concepts that I find impossible to believe as well. But science has not proven in any way that death is some eternal nothingness. That idea to me feels just as incorrect and hard to believe as theism. And I truly don't think it's a fear of death that leads me to believe that. We were dead before we were alive, that's just as much a proven fact as the earth being spherical. I don't remember death being so bad, do you? We've all experienced it. If it is some eternal nothingness, then once we're dead we will be at total peace. There won't be a way to give any less of a crap. No stress, pain, or fear whatsoever and that would be pretty nice in a way, I guess. But, I feel very strongly there's more to existence, it's pretty exciting to think about it. We're living beings, made of stardust and energy. There's more to all of this.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Astyanax
Science insists on falsifiable evidence. That is why its findings are reliable. Surely you wouldn’t want it any other way?

I understand why atheists find it so easy to dismiss organized religion, and the notion of some bearded man sitting on a cloud judging everybody. Heaven and hell are man made concepts that I find impossible to believe as well. But science has not proven in any way that death is some eternal nothingness. That idea to me feels just as incorrect and hard to believe as theism. And I truly don't think it's a fear of death that leads me to believe that. We were dead before we were alive, that's just as much a proven fact as the earth being spherical. I don't remember death being so bad, do you? We've all experienced it. If it is some eternal nothingness, then once we're dead we will be at total peace. There won't be a way to give any less of a crap. No stress, pain, or fear whatsoever and that would be pretty nice in a way, I guess. But, I feel very strongly there's more to existence, it's pretty exciting to think about it. We're living beings, made of stardust and energy. There's more to all of this.

edit on 3-4-2011 by 27jd because: (no reason given)

Science hasn't proven that there is eternal nothingness after death, but then again, no one has any strong, non-anecdotal evidence that there is any form of after life. In the absence of evidence, you don't assume the claim to be true. "Science" has never proven that there's no flying Spaghetti Monster, but this doesn't mean you would be justified in believing in a flying spaghetti monster.

Originally posted by Tetrarch42
Science hasn't proven that there is eternal nothingness after death, but then again, no one has any strong, non-anecdotal evidence that there is any form of after life.

Were you alive, or were you dead before your parents met? You certainly weren't alive in your current form, so, you were dead. Now you're alive. Viola. Proof of life after death. Right in the mirror, every day. But, a monster made of pasta, really not in the realm of any possibility. I guess you never know.

Does anybody else in this discussion, remember being children and having some inner knowledge about reincarnation? Before we were indoctrinated, or jaded, to believe whatever it is we all believe now as adults. Not on a religious basis, but just knowing we'd been here before somehow. So many cultures and religions, all over the world, have a belief in reincarnation.

The concept of reincarnation, that of an individual dying and then being reborn into another body, has existed in various religions for at least 3,000 years. The belief most likely arose independently in different areas, and this was followed by periods in which the concept spread to other regions. It has now spread to the point that there are probably more people alive who believe in reincarnation than do not. Even in cultures such as the United States and Western Europe that do not have a predominant belief in reincarnation, 20 to 30 percent of the population holds the belief. While the general concept is present in a number of religions and people groups, there are also significant differences between the various belief systems.

Read more: Reincarnation - world, body, life, history, beliefs, time, person, human, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shiite Muslims, Judaism and Christianity, Ancient Greece, West Africa www.deathreference.com...

I'm not looking at it from a religious angle, but from a scientific one. Looking at it as our energy, doing what Einstein, one of our greatest scientists said it does. Changing, but never stopping. Time goes just as far back as it does forward, there had to be something before our universe exploded into existence. All that energy, and material had to come from something. And whatever that something was, had to begin somewhere, from something too. Science has barely scratched the surface. Imagine what we know deep down in the locked parts of our brains. What's with the wasted space? It must hold some purpose we can't comprehend yet.

reply to post by 27jd

LIFE is LIFE and Not Death nor can LIFE be death....

Death is a myth of the "Species", Propagated by those who Do Not know themselves (Real Self or LIFE).

It is Impossible for LIFE to Die, as these Two are “Opposites”.

We Don't enter another body, but rather The Soul pulls out another Program from the Permanent (Hexagonal and Pentagonal Formatted) "Libraries" of The Soul Construct... And is Played in the Soul "Construct".

All Souls have all the "Programs" i.e. The All, and this universe and the Species you experience it through is Inside The Soul and Not outside the Soul as many people presume.

This Drawing is of The Soul part way through “The Metamorphoses of The Soul” which when complete is in 2D and is a "Partition" of "The First Born Soul".


Ending up like this, which is the "Partition Map" of The Soul.
(This Drawing is 100% accurate)


Which is used in The "Processing System" of The Soul.


So LIFE is Continuous and does Not Experience Death....

Those left in the "Story", experience the Loss of the entity which has left the "Story" or "Program".

But the one who leaves the "Story" or "Program", Does NOT experience Death, but only the withdrawal from the "Story" or "Program" merely to experience the next chosen "Program"...

Your Mind is a "Partition" of "The One True Mind" which is LIFE Eternal.

reply to post by timewalker

It is interesting that evolution should develop the tendency in people...
...not to believe in evolution when confronted with death.

Wouldn't it make more sense that evolution would have evolved an ambivolent attitude toward death?

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Well, that's definitely one possible explanation. What you explained sounds like it would definitely tie into a reincarnation of sorts, you just use the term program instead. Our bodies, and our brains would be nothing but dead tissue if it weren't for the energy, or souls that power them, IMO. But, none of us really know. That's why I believe atheism is just as much a faith as religion is. Neither science, nor religion has proven that there is or is not life after death. Atheists just choose the other end of the spectrum to be certain of, with no evidence. Agnostics are the porridge that Goldilocks chose.

If I let my eyes unadjust, I think I can see a whale in one of those pictures you posted...

Originally posted by 27jd
But why would anybody assume death could be a bleak non-existence? We were dead before we were conceived, and we came to life. When I was a child, I always felt deep down that there was something to reincarnation...and I notice many children feel that way, without being taught about it. We are energy, and energy never stops, it just keeps changing.

We are energy like rocks, houses, wind and ponds are energy. On a higher level, we're a collection of ever changing atoms in specific configuration in space and time. Some levels higher we're a neural networks (our brains, this is the level religious sort call soul). When we die that neural network is gone, and on that level we don't exist any more, ever (last bit is my opinion based on 100% lack of evidence supporting any other stance).The fact that the energy is never destroyed does not in any way support the reincarnation view..

Originally posted by rhinoceros
When we die that neural network is gone, and on that level we don't exist any more, ever (last bit is my opinion based on 100% lack of evidence supporting any other stance).

Right, I agree, we don't exist anymore in our current form. But, the universe is a much larger field of energy, and beyond our universe? We have no idea, we are all part of everything. Everything on this planet is made of stardust, and is driven by energy. So, just because the bodies we're in now expire, is no reason to believe once they do, there is infinite oblivion. You, and I were born out of that infinite oblivion, before your parents met, your neural network was non-existent. You were dead, but you came to life. Theists have faith that there is life after death and a god, because there is no evidence to prove there isn't. Atheists have faith that there is no god, and there is no life after death, because there is no evidence to prove there is. Neither know for sure, both have faith.

The fact that the energy is never destroyed does not in any way support the reincarnation view..

Well, you're right. It would be hard to prove reincarnation one way or the other given our current scientific ability. I was saying, as a child, I felt reincarnation was part of life. My parents never spoke of it, I just felt that way. That doesn't mean I believe in reincarnation though, I am always open to new ideas.

reply to post by 27jd


The ol Whale....

You are more than capable of accessing more about the "Whale" you saw if you want to.....

The "Wale" was the sign given by the Carpenter, to signify the "Resurrection". This was to do with the Story of Jonah O.T. (as far as the biblical Parable is concerned)

But rather than look at it in the religious sense there is a practical way of understanding other than religiously.


The Name Jonah is actually a "Directory Path" J; on, ah. through the SHIN a "Component" of The Soul.

The “J’ Register is in the “Green” Data Register in the Lower Left in the "Partition Map" (in your Soul, and can be obtained through what is known as “The City of 9 Gates”.
To find out more on the net Look up “The Acts of Peter and The 12 Apostles”.
This Small Story mentions “The City of 9 Gates”

The Lowercase letters o, n, a, h. are the letters of the “Directory path” to "The Book of the Resurrection". This manual in your Soul. will give you all you want to know regarding so called reincarnation called by the "Species".

You will then be able to obtain millions of “Books” on the Subject, if you learn how to access these “Books” in The Libraries of your Soul.

The “Hexagonal” Formatted Books will give you all the pictures, and the “Pentagonal” Formatted Books will give you the “Instruction Manuals” and "Stories", regarding the “Species” and more importantly the Workings of The Soul and The True Mind or LIFE.

If you need any help in achieving this, feel free to U2U me.