Terry Jones defiant despite murders in Afghanistan over Qur'an burning

reply to post by laiguana


Had he not publicly with media fanfare burned the Koran, I don't think this tragedy would have happened. Had he just went into his property, and had no media publicity burned it, that's his business.

But, instead, he did so with the expressed purpose of antagonizing people in the Middle East, and because he did so with media publicity, in my opinion he is guilty of Reckless Endangerment.

So ... all the flag burners in foreign countries can be charged with the same ... "crime"?

reply to post by whatukno


People will morally judge him as not having any involvement in actions taken by the murderers over in Afghanistan. I agree that in the eyes of the court he can and will be found guilty for numerous areas of common law.

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


Yeah if they are arrested for it and their legal system allows it.
2nd line

Hmm... well, people who stir up $&*^ like this are dong nothing to help anyone.

Free speech ETC.. LOL...

What happens if say I burn the bible in His church? Will he sit back and share my freedom.

In Australia, these people are classified wankers

I do believe that anyone who can not have any common sense about things, especially a so called pillar of a community, should be disposed of.

I do not condone the murdering of innnocent people though

Originally posted by nahsik
reply to post by GeisterFahrer

 

Yeah if they are arrested for it and their legal system allows it.
2nd line

Our legal system does not prosecute anyone for political speech. Most courts in the "civilized" world wouldn't prosecute Terry either.

He has the right to burn a Quran that he purchased, on his property, in full view of the public.

Originally posted by guessing
Hmm... well, people who stir up $&*^ like this are dong nothing to help anyone.

Free speech ETC.. LOL...

What happens if say I burn the bible in His church? Will he sit back and share my freedom.

In Australia, these people are classified wankers

I do believe that anyone who can not have any common sense about things, especially a so called pillar of a community, should be disposed of.

I do not condone the murdering of innnocent people though

Do you condone the burning of one's own purchased paper on their own property?

reply to post by GeisterFahrer

Our legal system does not prosecute anyone for political speech. Most courts in the "civilized" world wouldn't prosecute Terry either.

He has the right to burn a Quran that he purchased, on his property, in full view of the public.

When free speech turns into a crime is when it's an action done for the expressed purpose of causing a reaction. This is what Terry Jones wanted to happen, this is what he was counting on. Had he burned his book in his yard with no media attention, then it's free speech. When he used the media as a weapon of terror, he turned that free speech into a crime, the crime of reckless endangerment.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by GeisterFahrer

 

Our legal system does not prosecute anyone for political speech. Most courts in the "civilized" world wouldn't prosecute Terry either.

He has the right to burn a Quran that he purchased, on his property, in full view of the public.

When free speech turns into a crime is when it's an action done for the expressed purpose of causing a reaction. This is what Terry Jones wanted to happen, this is what he was counting on. Had he burned his book in his yard with no media attention, then it's free speech. When he used the media as a weapon of terror, he turned that free speech into a crime, the crime of reckless endangerment.

You just defined political speech.

That is protected speech.

Now, I could give some examples - there was a specific art exhibit that depicted Jesus in a very offensive way. If Christians had protested violently as a result of this, would the artist be considered a criminal?

Free speech is FREE SPEECH, to speak without fear or favour anytime, anyplace and anywhere.

Terry had excercised his freedom of speech, but it does not mean everyone has to agree to his speech or freedom of expression. He had hurt and harm no one. He done no crime. His act was no doubt painful to the faithful but Acts and Words cannot kill.

What the animals in Afghanistan had horribly done was to react to words, to hurt and harm innocent others. As in our civilise world does not condone murder, let alone mass murders, but to follow the rule of law, then may those Afghan guilty of such crime be brought to trial.

There were be supporters of what both sides had done, but ultimately, despite our differences, we do share common aims and aspirations in life, as well as full adherence to the rule of law or we are only savage beasts. And those supporters are in the minority and should NEVER be presumed to be in the majority that we mankind as whole start hurling stones and bullets at each other.

Do consider please.We all need to wake up before we doom not only ourselves, but our innocent next generations as well.

reply to post by laiguana


Now I think we are getting somewhere, I agree he did what he did to proove a point, I believe he knows thier behaviors full well and wanted everyone else to see what he sees...

At the same time that make me believe he is partially to blame... But still if they were not so stupid, I mean I know they are behind the times but not 1900 years behind... Its time for them to reevaluate thier methods of thinking and learn how to behave....

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


It was in the full view of the public as well as the media. Found an article in the areas of the US Constitution it violates -

Conspiring or attempting to provide material support to terrorists. Or attempt or conspiracy to violate 18 USC Section 2383, Rebellion and Insurrection.

Violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2387: Activities affecting armed forces.

Or 18 U.S.C. § 2388: Activities affecting armed forces during war

An attempt occurs when one takes a substantial step toward the commission of the crime. Acquiring the Qurans could be a substantial step. Since he's agreed with others to commit an act likely to be harmful to the armed services or assist al Qaida in recruiting, acquiring the Qurans could be an overt act.

www.talkleft.com...

In my own belief this dwells on the area of 'provocation' and his 'intention' and 'capacity' to understand the consequences of his own action.

* for people who don't understand the issue on material support, it means that al qaida have the capability to use the preachers action as a recruitment video for their own terrorist organisation.

Originally posted by nahsik
reply to post by GeisterFahrer

 

It was in the full view of the public as well as the media. Found an article in the areas of the US Constitution it violates -

Conspiring or attempting to provide material support to terrorists. Or attempt or conspiracy to violate 18 USC Section 2383, Rebellion and Insurrection.

Violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2387: Activities affecting armed forces.

Or 18 U.S.C. § 2388: Activities affecting armed forces during war

An attempt occurs when one takes a substantial step toward the commission of the crime. Acquiring the Qurans could be a substantial step. Since he's agreed with others to commit an act likely to be harmful to the armed services or assist al Qaida in recruiting, acquiring the Qurans could be an overt act.

www.talkleft.com...

In my own belief this dwell on the area of 'provocation' and his 'intention' and 'capacity' to understand the consequences of his own action.

* for people who don't understand the issue on material support, it means that al qaida have the capability to use the preachers action as a recruitment video for their own terrorist organisation.

The fact that I am an American and breathing is used as a recruitment tool for the Al Quada. For people who intentionally provoke through actions of terrorism, they are just gonna have to grow some nads and get used to provocative comments from those who have a pair.

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


And yet he still chooses to add fuel to the fire with his own actions that should be condemned. Yet he is seen as a wielder of free speech because of his own extremist views, where as a foreigner living in America would be considered a terrorist if they had similar ideological and political objective.

Yeah and for those people who think this world runs on morality and ethics will lose everything when they have to deal with the court of law. ie family law.

Originally posted by nahsik
reply to post by GeisterFahrer

 

And yet he still chooses to add fuel to the fire with his own actions that should be condemned. Yet he is seen as a wielder of free speech because of his own extremist views, where as a foreigner living in America would be considered a terrorist if they had similar ideological and political objective.

Don't get my intentions wrong. Terry is no "hero". However, he has broken no laws. Those who wish to condemn him are simply promulgating the agenda of the enemy. They want to condemn him too.

reply to post by nahsik


Any man is free to spout his nonsense in USA. At most he will be spat on or have a egg thrown on his face if it was provocative enough. But he had done no crime, neither hurt or harm anyone. America follows the rule of law.

But can I say the same for muslim states espacially in the wake of what happened in Afghanistan?

Either there is freedom of speech and rule of law or only tyranny exists. Our muslim brothers and sisters had been intentionally kept stupid and ignorant so that the rulers can enjoy being the masters, and it is high time everyone wakes up and not be used or manipulated, religiously, socially, politically and economically.

i'll post this again,

it wasn't terry that sparked that crap, very few afgans would have known about it,

but karzai blabbed it all over.

"The Quran was burned March 20, but many Afghans only found out about it when Afghan President Hamid Karzai condemned the desecration four days later. The burning took place at the Dove Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, the same church where the Rev. Terry Jones had threatened to destroy a copy of the holy book last year but initially backed down."


news.yahoo.com...


so who stirred up all the trouble?

reply to post by GeisterFahrer


Hmmm, lets say I buy an American flag, burn it in the name of freedom and broadcast it live on the internet,

What do you think will happen to me?

reply to post by fooks


and wasn't Karzai really upset by the Kill shots that were all in the media this week?

That 15 year old kid....kept thinkin' all these Christian soldiers might better hope he was not the new Messiah. Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me....and all that.

I think blaming religion is a way to maybe get some support of the continutation of wars on Muslim lands. Not sure....just there was a lot more going on than some idiot preacher burning some book down in florida.

Originally posted by guessing
reply to post by GeisterFahrer

 

Hmmm, lets say I buy an American flag, burn it in the name of freedom and broadcast it live on the internet,

What do you think will happen to me?

nothing.

it is ok to do that in the us.

unless you were in ny, then you might be beheaded in times square.