Terry Jones defiant despite murders in Afghanistan over Qur'an burning, page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 11 times


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:06 AM by whatukno
reply to post by laiguana



Had he not publicly with media fanfare burned the Koran, I don't think this tragedy would have happened. Had he just went into his property, and had no media publicity burned it, that's his business.

But, instead, he did so with the expressed purpose of antagonizing people in the Middle East, and because he did so with media publicity, in my opinion he is guilty of Reckless Endangerment.


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:13 AM by nahsik
reply to post by whatukno



People will morally judge him as not having any involvement in actions taken by the murderers over in Afghanistan. I agree that in the eyes of the court he can and will be found guilty for numerous areas of common law.
edit on 3-4-2011 by nahsik because: (no reason given)




reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:15 AM by nahsik
reply to post by GeisterFahrer



Yeah if they are arrested for it and their legal system allows it.
2nd line


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:22 AM by GeisterFahrer
Originally posted by nahsik
reply to
post by GeisterFahrer



Yeah if they are arrested for it and their legal system allows it.
2nd line


Our legal system does not prosecute anyone for political speech. Most courts in the "civilized" world wouldn't prosecute Terry either.

He has the right to burn a Quran that he purchased, on his property, in full view of the public.


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:25 AM by whatukno
reply to post by GeisterFahrer



Our legal system does not prosecute anyone for political speech. Most courts in the "civilized" world wouldn't prosecute Terry either.

He has the right to burn a Quran that he purchased, on his property, in full view of the public.


When free speech turns into a crime is when it's an action done for the expressed purpose of causing a reaction. This is what Terry Jones wanted to happen, this is what he was counting on. Had he burned his book in his yard with no media attention, then it's free speech. When he used the media as a weapon of terror, he turned that free speech into a crime, the crime of reckless endangerment.


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:37 AM by GeisterFahrer
Originally posted by whatukno
reply to
post by GeisterFahrer



Our legal system does not prosecute anyone for political speech. Most courts in the "civilized" world wouldn't prosecute Terry either.

He has the right to burn a Quran that he purchased, on his property, in full view of the public.


When free speech turns into a crime is when it's an action done for the expressed purpose of causing a reaction. This is what Terry Jones wanted to happen, this is what he was counting on. Had he burned his book in his yard with no media attention, then it's free speech. When he used the media as a weapon of terror, he turned that free speech into a crime, the crime of reckless endangerment.



You just defined political speech.

That is protected speech.

Now, I could give some examples - there was a specific art exhibit that depicted Jesus in a very offensive way. If Christians had protested violently as a result of this, would the artist be considered a criminal?
edit on 3-4-2011 by GeisterFahrer because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:47 AM by 5StarOracle
reply to post by laiguana



Now I think we are getting somewhere, I agree he did what he did to proove a point, I believe he knows thier behaviors full well and wanted everyone else to see what he sees...

At the same time that make me believe he is partially to blame... But still if they were not so stupid, I mean I know they are behind the times but not 1900 years behind... Its time for them to reevaluate thier methods of thinking and learn how to behave....


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:53 AM by nahsik
reply to post by GeisterFahrer



It was in the full view of the public as well as the media. Found an article in the areas of the US Constitution it violates -



Conspiring or attempting to provide material support to terrorists. Or attempt or conspiracy to violate 18 USC Section 2383, Rebellion and Insurrection.

Violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2387: Activities affecting armed forces.

Or 18 U.S.C. § 2388: Activities affecting armed forces during war

An attempt occurs when one takes a substantial step toward the commission of the crime. Acquiring the Qurans could be a substantial step. Since he's agreed with others to commit an act likely to be harmful to the armed services or assist al Qaida in recruiting, acquiring the Qurans could be an overt act.


www.talkleft.com...

In my own belief this dwells on the area of 'provocation' and his 'intention' and 'capacity' to understand the consequences of his own action.

* for people who don't understand the issue on material support, it means that al qaida have the capability to use the preachers action as a recruitment video for their own terrorist organisation.
edit on 3-4-2011 by nahsik because: (no reason given)




reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 01:55 AM by GeisterFahrer
Originally posted by nahsik
reply to
post by GeisterFahrer



It was in the full view of the public as well as the media. Found an article in the areas of the US Constitution it violates -



Conspiring or attempting to provide material support to terrorists. Or attempt or conspiracy to violate 18 USC Section 2383, Rebellion and Insurrection.

Violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2387: Activities affecting armed forces.

Or 18 U.S.C. § 2388: Activities affecting armed forces during war

An attempt occurs when one takes a substantial step toward the commission of the crime. Acquiring the Qurans could be a substantial step. Since he's agreed with others to commit an act likely to be harmful to the armed services or assist al Qaida in recruiting, acquiring the Qurans could be an overt act.


www.talkleft.com...

In my own belief this dwell on the area of 'provocation' and his 'intention' and 'capacity' to understand the consequences of his own action.

* for people who don't understand the issue on material support, it means that al qaida have the capability to use the preachers action as a recruitment video for their own terrorist organisation.



The fact that I am an American and breathing is used as a recruitment tool for the Al Quada. For people who intentionally provoke through actions of terrorism, they are just gonna have to grow some nads and get used to provocative comments from those who have a pair.
edit on 3-4-2011 by GeisterFahrer because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 02:05 AM by nahsik
reply to post by GeisterFahrer



And yet he still chooses to add fuel to the fire with his own actions that should be condemned. Yet he is seen as a wielder of free speech because of his own extremist views, where as a foreigner living in America would be considered a terrorist if they had similar ideological and political objective.

Yeah and for those people who think this world runs on morality and ethics will lose everything when they have to deal with the court of law. ie family law.
edit on 3-4-2011 by nahsik because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 02:07 AM by GeisterFahrer
Originally posted by nahsik
reply to
post by GeisterFahrer



And yet he still chooses to add fuel to the fire with his own actions that should be condemned. Yet he is seen as a wielder of free speech because of his own extremist views, where as a foreigner living in America would be considered a terrorist if they had similar ideological and political objective.


Don't get my intentions wrong. Terry is no "hero". However, he has broken no laws. Those who wish to condemn him are simply promulgating the agenda of the enemy. They want to condemn him too.


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 02:15 AM by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by nahsik



Any man is free to spout his nonsense in USA. At most he will be spat on or have a egg thrown on his face if it was provocative enough. But he had done no crime, neither hurt or harm anyone. America follows the rule of law.

But can I say the same for muslim states espacially in the wake of what happened in Afghanistan?

Either there is freedom of speech and rule of law or only tyranny exists. Our muslim brothers and sisters had been intentionally kept stupid and ignorant so that the rulers can enjoy being the masters, and it is high time everyone wakes up and not be used or manipulated, religiously, socially, politically and economically.


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 02:18 AM by guessing
reply to post by GeisterFahrer



Hmmm, lets say I buy an American flag, burn it in the name of freedom and broadcast it live on the internet,

What do you think will happen to me?


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 02:24 AM by hadriana
reply to post by fooks



and wasn't Karzai really upset by the Kill shots that were all in the media this week?

That 15 year old kid....kept thinkin' all these Christian soldiers might better hope he was not the new Messiah. Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do unto me....and all that.

I think blaming religion is a way to maybe get some support of the continutation of wars on Muslim lands. Not sure....just there was a lot more going on than some idiot preacher burning some book down in florida.


reply posted on 3-4-2011 @ 02:24 AM by fooks
Originally posted by guessing
reply to
post by GeisterFahrer



Hmmm, lets say I buy an American flag, burn it in the name of freedom and broadcast it live on the internet,

What do you think will happen to me?




nothing.

it is ok to do that in the us.

unless you were in ny, then you might be beheaded in times square.
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