Terry Jones defiant despite murders in Afghanistan over Qur'an burning

Root cause analysis. If he didn't burn the book, the Afghans wouldn't have killed those people etc etc

Come on, we're talking about a country that have been targeted for a decade now. Heck, who knows what's the psychological condition of those people that murdered those innocent people. Would've gone postal if it was me, who knows right? Imagine living in a hostile environment for most of your life. Tell me how hard is it to be sane.

But then again, they shouldn't have done that. Downright horrible.

I'm a muslim myself and am fully aware of what Mr.Jones did. I didn't kill anyone. Heh, but i don't mind whacking those murderers though

reply to post by Madhouse


If your a Muslim as you say. Why are'nt you and your fellow congregations not doing anything about these extremists? How can the people of your religion sit by and let these clowns murder in the name of your religion? It's criminal. Or is it that they are driving the agenda of the Muslim people. I can't not understand how the people of Islam can tolerate the throwing of acid in the face of little girls that want to go to school. By allowing it to happen your guilty by association.

__________________

As in murder in the name of oil, and false media seeding ?

Btw christians have murdered more in the name of
illegal colonization and control, than sadam and hitler put together.

__________________

reply to post by filosophia


Have you ever been to Afghanistan? Or even the middle east? When a terrorist intent on blowing up a school full of kids is killed and they take his weapon and his explosives. He becomes a civilian casualty. This happens 99.9 percent of the time. Sure every once in a while you get your civilian causality or some nut job soldier that got through all the psych testing they do or broke from having his dismembered friends die in their arms. What happens more is accidental friendly fire when soldiers accidentally fire on other soldiers. I love it when people that know nothing about a subject talk about it like they live in the area and have seen it as fact. Your just spreading the lies these nut jobs create. Good job. Idiot.

reply to post by ToneDeaf


Murder in the name of oil another lie. We don't get oil from these countries. Haven't in over 20 years We get most of our oil from Canada and the Saudis. Your right about Christians killing to Colonize. But definitely your math is way off. Christian Colonial times were over about 200 years ago so no living Christian has been involved in that.. Any country the West has been in has been rebuilt and left to their people. Or has plans too.

Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by Madhouse

 

If your a Muslim as you say. Why are'nt you and your fellow congregations not doing anything about these extremists? How can the people of your religion sit by and let these clowns murder in the name of your religion? It's criminal. Or is it that they are driving the agenda of the Muslim people. I can't not understand how the people of Islam can tolerate the throwing of acid in the face of little girls that want to go to school. By allowing it to happen your guilty by association.

edit on 4/5/2011 by JerryB08 because: (no reason given)

Sup jerry

Simple really. Because most muslims like me do not have the resources, do not know how to go about making ourselves heard, MSM ain't interested, no backup, no supporters, no time, no $$$, busy with work, and boy am i shy. Heh, maybe a lil too introvert but who knows. Also, I'm in the s.e.a region and how do you expect me to do anything to those clowns in afghanistan right?

But if you are really curious, prejudices aside, in my opinion..... generally, i think most muslims in the world would like to mind their own business. They would prefer not getting into trouble. We do not condone it but what choice do us, normal moderate muslim citizens, have? Clowns are clowns and every group has one. It's only up to the UN or US or whoever to bring justice to those murderers in afghanistan.

reply to post by Madhouse


Madhouse, in the event that a global caliphat is installed and a fatwa issued that, by whatever means, the world is to be converted to Islam, what would your position be then?

Do you think that in order for the fatwa to be fulfilled, even the most moderate moslem will publically condone extremist crimes or threat of said crimes such as murder, rape or mutilation?

See, I agree with you. Most moslems do just want get on with their lives, raise their families, educate themselves, etc but given as that so much of the Islamic world denies the freedom of self determination to half of their own, how then can non moslems trust that their freedoms will not be stripped away under Islamic rule? How can you reassure us or even guarantee that we will be unmolested if we opt to continue making our own choices to believe as we will?

reply to post by Madhouse



Fair enough. I'm not prejudice. I'm talking about the Muslims in the communities of these people. They hide them feed them and store their weapons for them. Those are the Muslims I am referring to.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by YouSir

 

You cannot use freedom of speech to incite people to violence or cause panic. You cannot yell fire in a theater.

Had he burned the Koran without media attention, that would be freedom of speech, because he used the media, for the purpose of inciting violence, that became terrorism.

Im not comparing these two people............but by your logic........

Martin Luther King was a terrorist because his speeches , in which he used the media to convey, incited many riots where KKK members killed and injured many.........

So hes a terrorist too?

Will Obama be a terrorist too for deciding to try the GITMO peeps in NY , if it leads to anger over seas?

Because thats EXACTLY what you said in this post

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


The question becomes intent.

Did MLK use his speeches for the purpose of inciting that violence? Of course he didn't, he didn't mean for anyone to get hurt.

But Terry Jones sure did mean for someone to get hurt, he was warned that if he did this that it would cause violence, and he bet on that to happen, that is why he did it. Not because of his personal bigotry, but for the deaths that it would cause.

The other example you used is not actually speech in any way shape or form, but judicial venue, if you are that ignorant about the subject, may I suggest that you continue education in order to not appear to be less intelligent than you are.

reply to post by whatukno

The question becomes intent.

Intent it is now hmm? how bout the intent to express ones view, whether it be disdain or not?

Dr.King was part of many a protest........that was televised.........which resulted in , you guessed it , retaliation and injury..........

Is he then a terrorist?

This pastor was protesting as well.

The other example you used is not actually speech in any way shape or form, but judicial venue, if you are that ignorant about the subject, may I suggest that you continue education in order to not appear to be less intelligent than you are.

lol ok, im the ignorant one, but youre saying that someone who who burns a bible, and because it was spread by the media is a terrorist........not because he committed a terrorist act, but because OTHER people committed act of violence in defiance..........

Sure that makes perfect sense......

Im uneducated, but you fail to see the logical fallacy in anything youve posted so far.........

right...........me thinks your own ideology is the problem...........not the fact that this guy, tho despicable he may be, burned a book they find holy and commenced to killing innocent people..........

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


I believe his intent was to cause unrest, violence, and get people killed in order to further his own agenda about Islam.

That's the intent he had and that's why it's not free speech but a criminal terrorist act.

If you wanted to burn a mountain of Korans in your backyard in protest over the religion and people that you hate, that's fine. But if you called a TV crew and made sure to get a copy of your act over to the middle east for broadcasting that's not free speech. That's propaganda. Propaganda isn't free speech is it? Especially if your intent is to make people angry enough to kill.

Well the dude is a jerk.. but you can't pin these deaths on him. There is something wrong with a religion that when a large group of it's followers think that their holy book being burned in another country is reason enough to kill innocent people that aren't at all related to the book burners. The guy's hateful free speech isn't really to blame here.

And I am aware that not all Muslims would agree with this, i'm just saying can't blame this guy for the deaths really.

reply to post by whatukno



Haha well it was a brilliant plan then. If they would have just condemned it and not acted it would have made this guy look like a fool. They played right into this book burner.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by YouSir

 

You cannot use freedom of speech to incite people to violence or cause panic. You cannot yell fire in a theater.

Had he burned the Koran without media attention, that would be freedom of speech, because he used the media, for the purpose of inciting violence, that became terrorism.

Ummmm.........sorry, your way off base....once again, I might add...Any act that I do, any word that I write or say...CANNOT...incite another to say or do anything...That "other", makes the decision to respond or not and in whatever fashion they CHOOSE.........Get it?
I'm not a magician and your not God.......get it through your skull, that "individuals" travel their own path, YOU, decide left or right, forward or back.......there's no mystical compulsion, FORCING, these whateveristanians to lop off heads........

An act of burning toilet paper in a yard, wether on bbc or aljazeerah..........CANNOT.....terrorism, make....Grow up and realize that all acts of men are by "choice" and not by...........wand waving.

Nuff Said

YouSir

Now I understand that the majority agree with what this guy did, and they want to do it too, and they think that all Muslims are terrorists because they endlessly watch FOX News and listen to Rush Limbaugh.

But it's still my opinion that what he did was wrong, and that he abused free speech to the point of actually committing a crime.

No, he didn't kill those people himself, but he did act in a reckless way, and endangered those people by his actions.

But go ahead, make this guy your personal hero.

Originally posted by YouSir
Any act that I do, any word that I write or say...CANNOT...incite another to say or do anything...That "other", makes the decision to respond or not and in whatever fashion they CHOOSE.........Get it?

This is absolutely true! It's all about choice. Second to second, we make choices that define who we are. No one can incite you, or force you to do anything (eg; the devil made me do it) without your consensus. Responsibility must always fall upon the individual.

IRM