Goldstone is reconsidering his Report on Israel and war crimes

reply to post by gravitational


So everyone besides Palestinians are allowed their revolutions I suppose?

Please. It's always only 1 side isn't it? Had you had your family displaced from your homeland, then had what little land was left divvied up and slowly taken away by new 'settlers', war waged upon in which your side took 1000 times the casualties of the other... I think you'd have had enough of that too don't you think. I'm speaking for the peaceful majority however. You can't say the same.

reply to post by BiGGz


You're another one who did'nt READ carefully what Goldstone said to the Washington Post.

You all failed to mention Hamas operatives, like Hezbollah, HIDES among civilians placing civilians in grave danger. But that shows what cowards they really are....not to mention covering their ugly faces so they can't be identified.

But thats ok for you all so long as they're targeting Jews and not YOU, YOUR families, YOUR friends, YOUR citizens!!!

And when they shoot their own people...........my oh my how you cowards go silent!!!

reply to post by bluemirage5


I just reread BBIGz's post and he mentioned Hamas was guilty of war crimes. Indescriminite firing into a civilian population is a war crime. The evidence shows that both Israel and Hamas are guilty of this. Now, It probably was not the IDF's POLICY to do so but there is no doubt that it occured.

I would like to note that what Goldstone siad doesn't change even a comma in the UN report. He KNOWS both Israel and Hamas committed war crimes and he has NOT said otherwise. What he has done is to say what he knows NOW would not lead him to the conclusion that The State is responsible as the State had no INTENTIONAL policy to target civilians. And, I for one would agree that that policy did NOT exist. Yet, war crimes WERE committed so SOMEONE must bear responsibility. Perhaps field commanders, perhaps individual soldiers, SOMEONE. Some of these civilian attacks may have been errors that normally occur in the fog of war. There are many incidents however, that can not be explained away. A case in point would be Israeli soldiers use of "Human Shields" When you hancuff and blindfold a civilian and put him in harms way it is a war crime. So let Israel find those responsible and prosecute them. Failure to do so would suggest that using human shields was in fact policy. In my opinion Israel has not done enough to find those within their ranks and bring them to justice.

I have said in a previous post that war crimes occur in ALL wars. That of course doesn't mean we should ignore them. Currently in Cote de Voire thousands of civilians are being killed. Yet no mention of a war crimes investigation by the UN. I think when any countries are at war the UN should investigate the possibility of war crimes automatically.

Originally posted by Pr0t0
reply to post by gravitational

 

So everyone besides Palestinians are allowed their revolutions I suppose?

Please. It's always only 1 side isn't it? Had you had your family displaced from your homeland, then had what little land was left divvied up and slowly taken away by new 'settlers', war waged upon in which your side took 1000 times the casualties of the other... I think you'd have had enough of that too don't you think. I'm speaking for the peaceful majority however. You can't say the same.

I bet you meant the 850,000 Jewish people that were expelled from Muslim / Arab countries at the beginning of the 20th Century, were massacred and their properties stolen.

Or did you mean the Arabs that refused the partition resolution, that declared war on Israel a day after it was born, And their leaders calling them to flee their homes so they will return later on as victorious?

Or maybe you meant the pogroms and slaughterings of Jews since the beginning of the 20th century in the land of Israel, before the sate was even born?

reply to post by gem_man


Well......if Hamas and Hizbollah really cared about their people they would'nt use their citizens as human shields like the pack of COWARDS they are.

This is how Hamas use children:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


Human shields.......but of course "Palestinians" only throw stones, RIGHT?

www.youtube.com...


Tomorrow's cowards:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by bluemirage5


Yeah, Hamas does it too. Somehow we expect Hamas to commit this war crime. We did not expect Idf soldiers to display such cowardice and commit this war crime. Both the cowardly Hamas and cowardly Israeli soldiers responsible along with their commanders should be hunted down and put on trial. Don't you agree?

reply to post by gem_man


what war crimes did the IDF commit inside Gaza?

explain and back it up with evidence other than "Palestinian" or Arab sources........

reply to post by bluemirage5


www.roytov.com...

www.roytov.com...

There is abundant evidence given by IDF soldiers themselves attesting to what amounts to war crimes and has been posted on ATS some time ago. Apparently you do not know what a war crime is.
Here is a few to help you understand.
!. destroying a chicken farm where no hostile military presence is observed
2. destroying a waste water treatment plant
3. destroying schools, hospitals or ANY civilian infrastructure without a direct threat
4. using civilians as human sheilds
5 destroying a flour mill with no hostile military presence.
6. delibertly targeting civilians (non combatants)
7. denying medical aid to injured civilians
Hamas is accused of some of these. Israel is accused of all of these. There are of course more but I am sure you get the idea.

And don't be so naive to think war crimes were not committed by Israel as they most certainly were. The question is whether the crimes were intentional or errors. There has NEVER been a war that has been free of war crimes.

reply to post by gravitational


Every war is criminal. Every loss of life over property, religion, resources is criminal. Because it's happened for thousands of years does not excuse it happening today, as you seem to support. Because at the turn of the century some were barbaric, that somehow justifies continued misuse of force today for you?

With guidance available on rockets with a radius generally accepted to be between 50-100 meters (and thats being VERY generous) there is no excuse for any IDF missiles to hit UN buildings, civilian complexes and, worst of all, schools. How can you claim to be anti-violence and back the use of these weapons?

www.hrw.org...

I don't condone any warfare. But you do, don't you Gem? You're as bad as those who ordered these murders in my book. I don't for a second condone suicide bombings, or rocket fire from Gaza or Lebanon, but you know I can see why after the brute, disproportionate and continued use of (often illegal) force by Israel, I can see why these people would fight back in the style that they do. America couldn't defeat the Viet Cong. Israel think that the way to suppress guerrilla warfare is by murdering civilians as a 'deterrent' to those considering joining the fight. But in reality it does the exact opposite.

This thread is sadly full of the worst of ATS. Warmongers and racists, and those who hide behind chants of 'Anti-Semite' whenever someone points out the absurd, disgusting acts committed by Israel. Pathetic that you would support these war criminals so boldly.

reply to post by bluemirage5


See my above post. Human Rights Watch a good enough source for you?

reply to post by gem_man


Newspaper and UN human rights articles don't cut it......

in fact if I recall, UNICEF in fact retracted all their statements soon after as they were caught out lying through their teeth after the IDF clearly showed satellite film and on the ground video by IDF forces! In fact, UNICEF halted operations in Gaza soon after for quite some months before they started up their operations again....with truck loads of long expired medical and food aid, the Israelis said, was unfit for human consumption and posed a risk....however the IDF allowed it to go through and Hamas rejected it.

hahahahahahaha

try again!

reply to post by Pr0t0


No, anything that comes out of the UN slithers in to a deep dark hole

reply to post by bluemirage5


So a video of guided Israeli white phosphorous missiles exploding over a SCHOOL YARD, killing CHILDREN isn't proof enough for you of war crimes?

I very rarely lower myself to insults but in this case, seriously, are you retarded or just plain stupid?

reply to post by Pr0t0



And of course there were no Hamas operatives in sight of the school firing missiles and using semi automatic guns......

link to the video? I want to see kids and no Hamas operatives on school grounds

Yeah, that same white dust was not used in both Iraq invasions, Afghanistan or Libya? Ya kinda forgot to mention that but thats ok so long as Americans and British forces use it, then it's ok! Right?

I found one video of what you are talking about. I see 3 kids, doz's of Hamas operatives......ah, but the school was closed.....is that the one?

reply to post by bluemirage5


Or, possibly, the one I linked already in the post I pointed you to, already?!?!

But, sure I'm game. Here's some more.

WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES (unless you're completely inhuman as I suspect of some in this thread)

www.youtube.com...

I suppose all of these are Hamas? Even the kids in this refugee camp, right?

Even the Israeli citizens are at it:

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Actually I've found a SHED load of videos but I'll let you do your own search, you know the keywords. Go find and if you're not disgusted by Israels actions then I suggest you step away from the XBOX for a while.

I have never condoned any of the military action taken by America or Britain. I don't support the troops -- anyones. I've made that abundantly clear in the past. But it's not their fault. They're following orders I understand that. I wish some would have a little more backbone and morality and refuse to carry out these orders however.

reply to post by Pr0t0


In the first video......

can you explain to me why these older kids, no adults, but older kids had what appeared to be blood only on their faces but NONE anywhere else on their bodies except one on his foot which appeared to be quite fine except he stood in something red?

Another trick of their for their propaganda machine????

I watch small detail very closely......do you?

reply to post by Pr0t0


2nd video.....yep, kid throws himself on car knowing it was filmed by his buddies

ya kinda have to expect getting run down when you throw yourself in front of moving cars

but WAS this car owned by an Israeli?

I'll let you guess because I did my homework

reply to post by Pr0t0


3rd video......

It does not appear whether the person under the car was in fact an Arab however it DOES appear the driver was arrested and taken away.....thats usual in any country so not sure what your point is on this video.

reply to post by bluemirage5


Very, very closely. So the helicopter was edited in with after effects? The boy with his arm hanging half off at 1:49, arms don't bend that way, don't need top be a medic to see that clearly. What a price to pay for propaganda, eh?

I'm not going to continue, I won't allow your warped view to gain any more attention here. I could show you a Palestinian baby being strapped to a missile and fired at a hospital and you'd cheer.

You wouldn't dare refute this in any other forum than online. Have some morals, have some ethics, have some remorse and admit that everything I've shown you is wrong.

reply to post by gravitational


1 ton bombs? Sure as long as they were dropped on combatants instead of civilians. THAT would nor be a war crime.