The Great Jesus Swindle, Greatest lie ever told.

At the end of the day God is what he is and bickering among ourselves or defending beliefs whether found or handed down does nothing to secure a world where we tolerate other viewpoints and finally learn to get along. You believe I don't....Great!...Lets just understand that, learn to use this knowledge effectively by recognizing our differences as simply different views of reality self perceived.

Originally posted by Novatrino
Do you people not recognize that this exactly what THEY want?! Lets all just keep arguing to each other for 100's of years, keep at each others throats, and be consumed with hatred, over what? Some words that were written 2000 years ago? I respect BOTH sides. Some people are science minded while others are faith based.
What the hell does it matter!!!?? iI you don't agree, JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE!!!!! SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!!! DONE!!!
I can just see the enemy laughing its a** off at this crap.

edit on 2-4-2011 by Novatrino because: spelling

So true.
Another round of Jesus bashing by religious zealots who don't even recognize what they are.

If you want to be an atheist, then be an atheist. But when you shove your religion of Altheism down everyone's throat, you are no better than the bible thumping idiots.

It's the same old story, polarize everyone into two groups. They will never realize there is only one puppet master.

Religion ... Atheist
pro-gun ... Gun control
vegitarian ... meat eaters
gay ...straight
left ... right
communism ... capitalism
pro-choice ... pro-life
democrat ... republican

always two puppets but one puppet master.
Anyone get it yet?

Originally posted by notimportant
It was Lucifer who created and yhwh who got jealous and started to act as a dictator and eventually kicked Lucifer of the throne. In the 10 commandments (who are forced upon mankind by "control freak" yhwh) is written that you shall not worship other gods, and only him, so that makes him extremely jealous.

I once was intrested in becoming a Christian because I strongly belive there is more, but those christian days are over. Also those days were filled full of fear because I was afraid that I might be going to hell and that I was not good enough, but then I started realising that hell does not excist. It's all based on fear. What I was experiencing those days was comparable to a psychosis, and it was terrible when I think back to it.

Now I turned over to Luciferianism I feel better, I can think for myself in a rational way and my life is back on track, I literally get everything I want, and this is NO JOKE !!!, but it goes not fast but it doesnt really matter. It's not like that you will ask for it and 10 second later it arrives. It's comparable to a growing process.

Mark my words, yhwh is bad, lucifer is good.

Kudos to you and your stoical way of thinking, but I will tell you this, both Christianity and Satanism are still both based on faith, and not 100% true. Don't believe everything they tell you as fact, because it most likely is not. Faith with doubt, it is mind-opening and is good for the higher-mind.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
We are created in the image of God. The Bible is also in the image of God. Our entire universe is in the image of God. None of these images are God in perfection. If God made them perfect, they would be a perfect picture of Him, making Him two. He is One. He cannot be two. Instead, we are an imperfect image, as is the Bible and the universe. We are imperfect so we can be different than Him, otherwise we would be Him in perfection. The image cannot be the same to be different. A mirror cannot reflect itself.

The Bible is only a reflection of God in imperfection. The true Word of God is Christ. He was perfect and had to be as a demonstration of the difference in image between us and God. With this said, consider what you are really saying.

You are essentially saying that you do not believe in God or Jesus because you see man's imperfection in the image the Bible reflects. You further see man's poor reflection in the way he acts and judges others. You further see flaws in the universe as a whole, making you the judge of it all. In reality, you and God are both in the image together. The difference is, He is carrying you through the lessons of this reality despite of your own imperfection. That is Grace, or unmerited favor through loving-kindness to you. He offers you salvation from the school of life if you pass the test and rise above your imperfection. You can only move on if you progress and realize your place in the universe with humility and respect. This is the Refiner's Fire and God will test your faith to see if it is acceptable.

1 Corinthians 13
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

edit on 2-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

I am so sorry I am late for the reply .
Well , GOD is all perfect , all-knowing ,omni-potent and omni-conscious ,Yet he can create imperfections as bad as Satan and human sins.

Either God is all perfect ....which implies his creations must be perfect . Or he is not all perfect ... there must be chinks in GOD's all powerful armor due to the fact that evil and sin(as you see them ) still exist .

Originally posted by woghd

Originally posted by Novatrino
Do you people not recognize that this exactly what THEY want?! Lets all just keep arguing to each other for 100's of years, keep at each others throats, and be consumed with hatred, over what? Some words that were written 2000 years ago? I respect BOTH sides. Some people are science minded while others are faith based.
What the hell does it matter!!!?? iI you don't agree, JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE!!!!! SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!!! DONE!!!
I can just see the enemy laughing its a** off at this crap.

edit on 2-4-2011 by Novatrino because: spelling

So true.
Another round of Jesus bashing by religious zealots who don't even recognize what they are.

If you want to be an atheist, then be an atheist. But when you shove your religion of Altheism down everyone's throat, you are no better than the bible thumping idiots.

It's the same old story, polarize everyone into two groups. They will never realize there is only one puppet master.

Religion ... Atheist
pro-gun ... Gun control
vegitarian ... meat eaters
gay ...straight
left ... right
communism ... capitalism
pro-choice ... pro-life
democrat ... republican

always two puppets but one puppet master.
Anyone get it yet?

Aaaaand there you go. Another hypocrite. You go bashing him about shoving his nonsense down others' throats and you turn around and do the exact same thing. Your crazy-pants conspiracy theories are not appreciated when you go around acting like you're smarter than everyone else because everybody else 'may not think the way you do'. I don't think there is 'one all powerful godlike puppet-master', I think the world is chaos and there is no order. All these conspiracy theories are just fear-mongering extremists trying to find method to men's madness. I will accept the possibility, and that we don't know that what the government is telling us is true, but who's to say what you, Alex Jones, Jesse Ventura, "All Roads Lead to Rome", what.ev, are saying is true either? We could be entirely wrong about the Rockefellers, G20, UN, etc, and not even know it.

Humanity is a diverse species, with many diverse POV's, none of which will ever be 100% true individually, and it is inhumane to judge somebody based on their beliefs.

reply to post by thewanger



aye you have a good point. The actual teachings of Jesus in some religions are misconstrued not to mention in some cases totally disregarded. For instance, during the crusades it was totally accepted to kill the other team because it was "god's" will. It all comes down to the church head and politicians pushing their agenda. It doesnt matter what religion, church heads and politicians are going to use it to further their agendas. The original ideas are sincere and full of truth but man comes and gums up the works...

Originally posted by renegade17

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
We are created in the image of God. The Bible is also in the image of God. Our entire universe is in the image of God. None of these images are God in perfection. If God made them perfect, they would be a perfect picture of Him, making Him two. He is One. He cannot be two. Instead, we are an imperfect image, as is the Bible and the universe. We are imperfect so we can be different than Him, otherwise we would be Him in perfection. The image cannot be the same to be different. A mirror cannot reflect itself.

The Bible is only a reflection of God in imperfection. The true Word of God is Christ. He was perfect and had to be as a demonstration of the difference in image between us and God. With this said, consider what you are really saying.

You are essentially saying that you do not believe in God or Jesus because you see man's imperfection in the image the Bible reflects. You further see man's poor reflection in the way he acts and judges others. You further see flaws in the universe as a whole, making you the judge of it all. In reality, you and God are both in the image together. The difference is, He is carrying you through the lessons of this reality despite of your own imperfection. That is Grace, or unmerited favor through loving-kindness to you. He offers you salvation from the school of life if you pass the test and rise above your imperfection. You can only move on if you progress and realize your place in the universe with humility and respect. This is the Refiner's Fire and God will test your faith to see if it is acceptable.

1 Corinthians 13
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

edit on 2-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

I am so sorry I am late for the reply .
Well , GOD is all perfect , all-knowing ,omni-potent and omni-conscious ,Yet he can create imperfections as bad as Satan and human sins.

Either God is all perfect ....which implies his creations must be perfect . Or he is not all perfect ... there must be chinks in GOD's all powerful armor due to the fact that evil and sin(as you see them ) still exist .

Maybe good and evil are one and the same, and there is only perspective? Hmm? Think of that?

Originally posted by Condemned0625
reply to post by mzmusiq

 

I don't think you understand. I'm also against unproven beliefs, not just religion. You assert your "heavenly father" and "savior" in your statement, yet there is no evidence for its existence. I don't give a flying f### about your "heavenly father" or 'god' as it's usually called. Removing religion would be great. After that, all that remain are unjustified supernatural beliefs. However, the belief in gods is actually a product of religions and it started all of the theistic religions that exist today. Since you believe in a god, you are participating in a religious practice.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on the being rational part but I fail to see how having faith in a deity makes a person religious . There are many Buddhists who don't believe in GOD but still proclaim to be devoutly religious Buddhists .
There are many 'Atheist' Hindus as well .
The point I am alluding to here is that these groups of people albeit small do not subscribe to a deity but only to a particular school of thought . Yet they are called religious .

I say there is a difference between being spiritual and religious.

Stars for you anyway .

I don't know if I could have posted anything better myself.

Too many people (both claimed "Christians" and non-believers) mistake what it really means to be a Christian, as told by Jesus. Jesus was an advocate of peace and loving other people, not violence. He was also not supportive of hate, like so many "Christians" do today (whether it be homosexuals, Muslims, etc).

Originally posted by thewanger
Jesus is the son of God. If people would live by what he said(the words in red, in The Bible) and not what others said about him the world would be at peace. He's not like Muslims; who say to kill those who won't convert. He says that if you don't want what he offers then so be it. True Christians do not believe in violence of any kind. For country or family or anything on this earth. Jesus said: I send you out as lambs among wolves. No protection, no defense. His answer for what should we do was: Be as innocent as doves and as wise as serpents. All we have is our wits. Jesus is not a lie or a swindle. The real question is: Are you going to be a Christian or just another person trying to get by at the expense of your fellow man. Read the New Testament but only the words of Jesus(get a Bible where they are in red) and then tell me what you think.

reply to post by Davian


''Maybe good and evil are one and the same, and there is only perspective? Hmm? Think of that?''

Of course that is the key ...... Good and evil ( according to the perspective of Humans)

People took good and evil and renamed the two relative arbitrary concepts with GOD and SATAN . Then they proceeded to build their fantasy kingdom around it .

reply to post by Davian


Well you DO make an excellent point there . The atheists voicing their own POV and the religious zealots theirs conflict each other because they seldom try NOT to impose their POVs .

We may never have the complete picture of reality .... only small chunks of it .
Humans try to reduce uncertainty by introducing GOD into reality but still , there is no more absolute proof in favour of the atheist camp then there is for the theist camp .

The point to note here is that we are not working for the collective common Human good . We are absorbed in imposing our prejudices over others .

A star for you .

reply to post by notimportant

You are a typical American, everyone from outside the US who have a skeptical view or some criticism on your country is considered an idiot.

Typical American? Let me tell you something about your so called "Typical Americans". We brake our backs day in and day out to provide for our families. Do we consider foreigners as idiots. No. So next time you consider slinging your biased, speculative, remarks toward Typical Americans, because they happen to believe in Christ, remember this. The U.S has become the most powerful country of any that has existed so far. Most of us here put our faith in Christ our Lord and Savior. Is it really a coincidence?

Bottom line is religion is stupid. It's pointless, out-dated and detrimental to modern life.

Einstein said it best when he branded it 'childish superstition'

In fact he was being generous.

Religion=Idiocy.

Idocy is blindly following a baseless doctrine simply because you are told to.

At best Jesus is an anecdoctal mish-mash of creative writing and bad translation. Jesus was probably not even a real person or historically based on one but merely a fictional creation. is it that much of a stretch to your religious tiny minds that some guys in a cave 2000 years ago could have 'gasp' used their imaginations and invented a tall tale or two. Just because the book has been around a long time doesent mean it isnt a staggering crock of #e.

Wake up God botherers. when we have to help you like this and point out the obvious it becomes our time you are wasting. Who's saving who now, fools.

Originally posted by angus1745
Bottom line is religion is stupid. It's pointless, out-dated and detrimental to modern life.

Einstein said it best when he branded it 'childish superstition'

In fact he was being generous.

Religion=Idiocy.

Idocy is blindly following a baseless doctrine simply because you are told to.

At best Jesus is an anecdoctal mish-mash of creative writing and bad translation. Jesus was probably not even a real person or historically based on one but merely a fictional creation. is it that much of a stretch to your religious tiny minds that some guys in a cave 2000 years ago could have 'gasp' used their imaginations and invented a tall tale or two. Just because the book has been around a long time doesent mean it isnt a staggering crock of #e.

Wake up God botherers. when we have to help you like this and point out the obvious it becomes our time you are wasting. Who's saving who now, fools.

To suggest, at the very least, that Jesus was not a real person is - to use your phrase - "idiocy".

Also to suggest that the NT was creative writing shows your lack of knowledge regarding the history of the text. It was written by many authors from different times and locales. Many of the books were personal letters from church leader to church leader about struggles the churches faced - not "anecdotes" or fiction.

reply to post by angus1745


Lol. I guess we will just have to wait and see. You keep believing what you believe and I will believe what I believe. No insults toward you because, well I think most of the readers here can see how it makes one look.
When one resorts to name calling and ranting it is usually do to a feeling of helplessness. But hey, we can't prove that feeling like that exist apart from our personal believes anyway. So who am I to say.

Originally posted by angus1745
Bottom line is religion is stupid. It's pointless, out-dated and detrimental to modern life.

Einstein said it best when he branded it 'childish superstition'

In fact he was being generous.

Religion=Idiocy.

Stopped reading here. No, Religion =/= idiocy, it =faith. Faith is a beautiful thing, as is religion. I really admire Christians that held steadfast onto what they believed in in the fact of death. It takes true honor, and true selflessness to stand defiant in the face of a tyrant and say 'no, this is what I believe, and not you, not nobody, is going to tell me what I believe in.'

reply to post by Extralien


This guy says he's an atheist. Sounds like he's got the message of the REAL Jesus in hand pretty well!

While the "Fall of Man" is a Mystery to contemplate, its NOTHING to be made guilty of.

The church has been dirty since the Transfiguration. When he left the earth, Peter and Paul decided that THEY knew what the "boss" wanted and By God they were gonna see to it!

Not all preachers are bad. I've met a few that were good. They also didnt run around in Jags or have a "godplex" for a church. Granted, most of them still believe in eternal damnation but dont hammer it. Its what they have been taught.

Eyes to "See" and Ears to "Hear". If your not ready for the information, it wont come.

A good many folks are "waking up" though it seems. I hear about church attendance being low. I put this to different reasons.

1. Young western people today come in two classes.
a. Narcisistic hedonists that are brain dead.
b. They have "tuned in" and are figuring it out somewhat.

I wont get into the muzzies. Thats another topic. They've been denied Gnosis at every step!

As far as everyone having a personal idea of Jesus, I'm of two minds.
1. Some folks are just too damn afraid to accept that Jesus (while human) acted as such. He didnt have a problem with kicking ass in the temple!
I try to follow suit. I have no problem standing up and showing my ass by telling someone off when they break the rules THEY made up.
ASK THE SOCCER ASSOCIATION I LEFT!

He also showed amazing restraint at times.
When the soldiers came for him in the garden? Likewise, I try to follow his example.

2. To others,Jesus is a monster that waits at the end of your bed so if you die, he can drag you to hell for banging "little suzie" in the back of the car on that saturday night when you were 17!

Jesus has been given a bad rap.

We could also go into the way Mother Mary and the Magdalen have been treated. Thats another thread though

reply to post by thewanger


100% CORRECT!

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

This verse of Scripture ought to be very meaningful to those of us who are accountable to the Chief Shepherd of the flock. God has committed unto us sixty-six infallible, inerrant Books which we are to faithfully study, allowing the truth of His Word to become part of the very fabric of our being. We are then to teach others also (2 Tim. 2:2). "My brethren, be not many masters (teachers), knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation (judgment)" (James 3:1). We are certainly not to take this awesome responsibility lightly.

reply to post by renegade17


Gods were originally intended to be worshiped in religious ceremonies. The worship of deities is what created theistic religions. Why? Because theism is the belief in deities. Did you miss the part when I specifically said theistic religions?

However, the belief in gods is actually a product of religions and it started all of the theistic religions that exist today.

I'm not trying to be a prick, but it annoys the hell out of me when people constantly misread and misunderstand my points.

reply to post by Condemned0625


Sorry , was in a hurry . I did misread your post . Sorry for that . I took your point as a generalization .

Cheers anyway.

Sorry