Iran....here we go again?

It is being widely rumoured that an attack on Iran is on the agenda if not actually on the way soon.

I am appalled by this.

I'd like to know on what legal grounds would any attack take place?

Although obviously I realise that hasn't exactly stopped america before but just out of interest I'd like to know what the pre-text is going to be this time.....an 'attack' Tonkin Bay stylee with all those seven carrier groups that just happen to be about to exercise simultaneously around the globe soon?

(BTW....7 full carrier groups in war games at the one time, way to take the global temperature down and spread calm there guys).

The curious (by which of course I mean horrific and disturbing) thing is the orwellian nature of all of this.

It was widely reported at the time of 9/11 that Iran was the only nation in the region that had offered condolences and support. Iranian people were genuinely upset by the slaughter of civilians in New York and didn't shy from discussing or condemning it...

Now suddenly we're expected to believe they were secretly all for it.... because some of the hijackers passed through Iran (amongst other countries) on their way!?

Suddenly its not just Saddam who was in league with Osama (despite being committed enemies) they were both secretly in league with iran as well (despite being committed enemies).

(this propaganda even going out, it seems, barefaced despite the umteenth report this week showing a complete lack of any credible meaningful link between bin Laden, Al Qauda, Saddam and Iraq.....so who has the slightest bit of confidence in reports of official Iranian involvement in anything?)

Who is writing this rabble rousing sh**? How come some Americans are prepared to discuss and cheer on the gross illegal waste of young American lives (never mind the tens of thousands of innocent civillians abroad) and billions of tax dollars by this Bush government as if this were normal? Not to mention creating enemies that will spend years haunting the USA and her citizens.

What is going on that this insanity is given the time of day?

Didn't some of them pass through Germany and the UK too? We've both got nukes, should we be worried too?

Originally posted by Zzub
Didn't some of them pass through Germany and the UK too? We've both got nukes, should we be worried too?

- yeah I believe so, and Canada and the USA so is the US to attack Canada and itself!?

The mighty USA is doomed. I give them 5 years (regardless of who is in the White House) before they fall from the high perch they so enjoy at present. I just hope they don't bring down half the world with them. BTW if I was Iran or N. Korea or France or Russia or China, I would have no reservations to tell the USA to go stick it right now, and if the US attacked Canada... well... we'd just put on our hockey skates and kick some butt

Originally posted by Dakuma
The mighty USA is doomed. I give them 5 years (regardless of who is in the White House) before they fall from the high perch they so enjoy at present. I just hope they don't bring down half the world with them. BTW if I was Iran or N. Korea or France or Russia or China, I would have no reservations to tell the USA to go stick it right now, and if the US attacked Canada... well... we'd just put on our hockey skates and kick some butt

- I can't help but think that the US are currently encouraging anyone who can lay their hands on them to develop and stock (and, if it comes to it, actually use) WMDs.

This 'with us or against us and to hell with any and everyone else's view' isn't what I'd call a sound strategy; IMHO.

Iran is on the drawing board. All it takes is some low-heat propaganda to rile the masses (Iranians helped Al-Quaeda is just the start), then maybe a Gulf of Tonkin scenario or a terrorist attack. Then the administration can get the ball rolling.

But the US going at it against Iran militarily... Holy # man that would be some rough #. Not only is Iran a much more homogenous country than Iraq ever was (89% Shia muslims, 8% Sunni, the rest are Christians, Jews, and Zaroastians) but there military and military leadership is much better.

I have no idea how far Bush and the neocons will go, though. Just look how much they lied about Iraq - in front of the UN and the whole world, live, on TV. lol

.........I have no idea how far Bush and the neocons will go, though. Just look how much they lied about Iraq - in front of the UN and the whole world, live, on TV. lol

- I wonder too. I think you're right about the possibilities of an Iranian war too. I don't think Iran would 'win' it appears no-one can win a conventional stand-up war with the US these days....

....but then I think they wouldn't be dumb enough to have a conventional stand-up war with the US either.

I could imagine them giving the US a hard time though.

....and as for pacifying Iran, jeeez, if Iraq looks hard, wow you ain't seen nothing, is my bet.

Well the US doesn't have conventional wars these days - there's no one to fight 'conventionally.' Sure we roll in with tanks and ground troops, but with uncontested air and space resources and incredible communications it's difficult for the enemy to hide its big guns where they can't be reached. Meanwhile we take out the enemy's leadership or isolate them so we can mop up the confused and outmanuevered enemy army.

What would make a difference if you were the Iranians fighting the Americans is the personal commitment of Iranian troops to defending their country (as they see it) and the ability of small-unit commanders to retain initiative and order and discipline. By all accounts from the Iran-Iraq war, the Iranians were very good in these areas.

Basically if the US was seriously going to invade Iran, the Iranians would be best to never fight outside of urban areas with conventional forces, and guerillas in the hills. They would have to resort to everything America's opponents have done since the Vietnam war - make America go lo-tech (force them to work with their grunts, not their JATO bombs) and use politics.

At this point, without using almost all the US armed forces (since there's no way in hell we'd have allies in this) I don't see a feasible way for us to conquer Iran. Most Iranians I've talked to were very patriotic about their country, and while not entirely happy with the government, they seemed to support it. Iraq was much different - there are so many competing ethnic groups that a dictator was used to crush all opposition. Tribal and ethnic rivalries were rampant in Iraq and still are. If Iran's population is wholly against their government, we could invade pretty easily. If they are supporting it, it'd be a bloody, bloody fight. Countries with patriotic populations are very difficult to fight because you have to fight the population, which makes your war politically and diplomatically hard to justify. Again, I don't think the neocons give a crap about justification, and we may soon find out how little of a crap they actually give if they invade Iran.

If you want a better example of how the Iranian military is, I think the Kuurdish Peshmerga is a pretty good example.

Rafsanjani said the allegations had arisen from Washington�s �failure to provide security for its own people, as well as its failure to achieve its aims in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.�

The administration of US President George W Bush, he said, was made up of �egoists who need to blame other people�.

�We are not sure if they are telling the truth. But suppose these eight people did pass through Iran. How many other countries did they pass through on their way to America?� he told thousands of worshipers at Tehran University in a sermon carried live on state radio.

�The big question we have to ask America is, assuming they (the hijackers) passed through Iran, who put them in Afghanistan and who supported them in the first place,� he said. �This is no big secret. Al Qaeda and the Taliban were created and nurtured by America in order to weaken the Islamic Republic of Iran.� During the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan during the 1980s, Osama bin Laden�s network of foreign fighters was one of the beneficiaries of CIA and Saudi funds channelled through Pakistan�s Inter-Service Intelligence.
www.dailytimes.com.pk...


BTW it is no big secret except to middle class Americans that cannot see beyond their TV screens, no wonder why we are 17th in education among the industrial nations

Yes indeed,

It has been going down since time began, it is recorded in the Old and New Testament. Mystery, corruption, power, politics, and passion all rolled up in one big blanket of deceit
And we as blind peons, proles, serfs, through our taxes are the ultimate financiers supporting this corruption. If nothing else it causes one to wonder where does the blame lie

Tut Tut

p.s.
Frank Chodorov (1887-1966) - "Men work to satisfy their desires, not to pay taxes. There is no sense in keeping my barn full if the highwayman empties it regularly and I have no means of preventing him from so doing. "



TUT

[edit on 24-7-2004 by tututkamen]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
....and as for pacifying Iran, jeeez, if Iraq looks hard, wow you ain't seen nothing, is my bet.

Yea with 3 times the population and no "friends" by and large. Can you imagine what it will take to pacify say Tehran? The Sunni triangle will become a vacation site just to get away from it all.

I do NOT believe the U.S.A. is getting ready to launch any kind of preimptive strike on Iran.

But in my opinion we are getting ready for a potential war with Iran.

The main reason is Iran's push for nuclear power, and the fact that Israel has made it clear they would take out Iran's nuclear sites before they can install the first fuel rods.

If Israel does launch a strike in Iran then the U.S.A. will be drawn into the conflict.

But I could be wrong. who really knows in a world full of secrets and half truths?

Gazz

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

(BTW....7 full carrier groups in war games at the one time, way to take the global temperature down and spread calm there guys).

Actually, I think that is rather obvious even to the military and administration. My bet is that this masks a response to some threat we haven't been told about.

Um_Gazz I don't get this idea that people have that if Israel attacks the US would be drawn in no they wont Israel is more than capable by itself why would the Us be drawn in?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
What is going on that this insanity is given the time of day?

If your question is addressed to the "public" well you probably already know the answer. Just look at some of the threads around here.

If your question is about the government, then the answers you seek are here and here.

Sudan is also on the list for the same reasons and the trouble being stirred up there smells (to me anyway) like a CIA sponsored proxy war.

The "end game" is in play.

Originally posted by taibunsuu
Iran is on the drawing board. All it takes is some low-heat propaganda to rile the masses (Iranians helped Al-Quaeda is just the start), then maybe a Gulf of Tonkin scenario or a terrorist attack. Then the administration can get the ball rolling.

Last weeks newsweek had an article suppposedly showing al qaeda links to iran. The article stated that a couple of the 911 hijackers visited Iran but didn't get their passport stamped.

BTW....I'm not too certain you can have 7 carrier battle groups deployed at one time the cost would be astronomical!!! (ex-navy guy here) On top of that it would mean that 80-85 percent of the whole fleet would be on deployment and that would hurt local economy at the bases...BIG TIME.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Um_Gazz I don't get this idea that people have that if Israel attacks the US would be drawn in no they wont Israel is more than capable by itself why would the Us be drawn in?

Israel and the US go hand in hand they are our only ally in that region other than the Saudis who have military supremacy (From US) Were big buddies. Plus they aren't muslims.

I do recall Iran's condolences on 9-11. It was surprising, to me at least.

However, there is a big difference between the Iranian people and their government. While we had the sympathies of the people, I'm sure the government officials danced in the halls and fired up stogies.

Personally, I sympathize with the Iranian people's plight, and would wish to help get them out from under the thumb of their government. (ANY people under ANY theocratic government, really.) Unfortunately, I think that to many people there is no distinction, much like the rest of the world's current opinion of the US. Sad really, on both counts.

didnt Russia warn American not to invade anymore countries and spread their version of democracy???

got away with iraqi (BARELY!!) but if they start going for other countries there will be another world war. I dont think it will happen because Americas military is already streched, and most importantly the AMerican people will not tolerate another war, already Iraqi has turned into a mini Vietnam, once they loose the peoples support it always backfires.

But that said, another heavy strike on US Soil ??? God only knows what will happen.

I think the military threat level against America is in this order:

1) China (both members of US and China believe that a future war is inevitable, as China is the growing superpower and American the current)

2) North Korea (maybe they should be number 1 on the list, but because they are a rogue state and America would have a host of allies if IF N Korea caused a war situation I dont believe America would be alone fighting N Korea)

3) Russia (Still around and elements of Russia still hate America)

4) Iran, Syria and other mid east muslim nations


Terrorism aside, the above list would exist with or without bin laden.

[edit on 25-7-2004 by TruthStrgnrThanFiction]

yo im usmc in an intel bn and i can say that this is comin downrange in the near future.
keep ya ears and eyes open

I am a Canadian but i am half Iranian (i am an Iranian Citezen). Let me tell you there are not many people in my family who would not fight. Iran not only is 3 times the population of iraq (think some one alrady mentiond this) we have the russians right next to us, weapon supplying can be quick. Tehran is a very over populated city i will be hard to fight there, even if you are a well trained marine a well place Ak-47 shot from a crowed in to your face is bringing you down.

If the Iranians play it smart they will let the americans walk in and keep the armys for urban comabt (already mentiond as well i think), that way the use of bombs is frowned apon due to the amount of "freindly" troops in blast range. Iran for many years have been pretty hard bittin and patriotic, even when sadam used chemical weapons (sold to them by the good old U.S.A) and mined the whole border iran still beat them back. Bush is a fool, he will waste more money and more american lives just so he can say he won the war, well he will win the battle, hes setting America up for failure, constent watch and fear due to the amount of young terrorrists that will be recruited.

There is one other thing, many american soldiers are not used to the things you see in battle they get "emtional" diffuculties and are less mentally tough when things dont go there way, they will end up walking down a street like in iraq jumping at every car incase of bombs ect. See the problem with fighting iran and iraq and any other country there is thye dont care if they die or not as long as a few of the enemy go down with them.

You can not kill those who are not afraid of death.

Also i dont know one Iranian that was not sad and disgusted at what happen on 9/11 they dont want a war with iran, but things tend to change once your back in to a wall.

[edit on 25-7-2004 by zi2525]