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Tell me lies, Tell me sweet little lies....

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posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Nice to see a post where someone is showing some concern about the political system even if your knowledge of political science is a bit lacking. Let me clear some things up for you that you can add to your blog.

The Whig party actually was a major party for a short period of time, they replaced the republicans who disappeared for awhile so there has never been a 3rd party president.

And even if we did vote in a 3rd party slate across the board you should realize that government runs in factions. That is groups of like minded people will stick together. Some of the founding fathers were concerned about this but Jefferson actually said that not allowing factions in government would itself be a denial of liberty.

What this means is that even a 3rd party, if elected, would behave the same as democrats or republicans just with a different ideology. Now electing a 3rd party is fairly impossible due to the fact that both sides of major issues the american people care about are already covered by either the democrats or republicans.

It would be impossible for a 3rd party to have a platform completely different yet still addressing the concerns the nation has about issues. Even theodore roosevelt when he ran for another term after losing the democrat nomination ran under a 3rd party, his bull moose party, and was soundly defeated. As a whole 3rd party candidates don't bring enough to the table that is all that much different than the current two parties. Also independents while claiming to vote on their own merits, more than likely follow the voting patterns of one of the two major parties.

I believe a better option to put in your blog would be multiple candidates. Back in the day there would be multiple people running for president from the same party, dems had up to 5 in one election, this way they have the basic concerns of the nation addressed but with slightly different approaches to it.

Or you may want to consider a parlimentary style of government which allows seated members based on the percentage of votes collected. That way you could have a government full of everything dems, republicans, libertarians, you name it. Most of Europe runs this way.

And finally you should think about this. Having an open and free society means also having to put up with people having access to their politicians. Whether that's us writing letters or coorperations lobbying and spending money it comes with our freedom. You cannot lock people out of having access to the government officials this is why the supreme court allowed the use of cooperate money in campaigns. Like it or not that is part of our system.

From George Washington on there has always been special interests vying for favors from the government and these same complaints people are saying about the government not caring has been around since this country was founded. The only option for those of you that want this not to happen is to elect a king or supreme ruler who doesn't have to listen to anyone else. I don't think anybody would like that very much.




posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Awesome post. S&F.

I totally agree that all politicians are the same once elevated to higher offices. Republican, Democrat, same party on a different platform to sell different lies to different people.

Here's a crazy thought. One way to get through to the majority of brainwashed Americans voting for either the left or right is to start our own party. One that's an offshoot of ATS, kinda like the site owner's April Fools Day joke.

I know that sounds simplistic, but we'd need to get together, face-to-face, at an ATS type conference or on a cruise ship or something, somewhere where keynote speeches, classes, and breakaway sessions are held on a myriad of topics from beginners courses on "how-to form and finance a party," "how to use media/social media to spread messages," to more advanced courses on proper debating techniques, recruiting and leveling the playing field.

I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I feel like us, the awake people, have to do something sooner rather than later. We need each other, our friends and family, some money, strong leaders from the ATS community, and a damn good grasp on how to take control of the forth estate - that part is key for this thing to work.

Oh yeah, we'd all have to migrate away from the fringe topics many of us entertain ourselves with and get this started on another site, hopefully owned and operated by The Above Network. Once in power, screw it, open the can of worms on America as our ATS candidate will gain access to and disclose whatever conspiracy/lie we have been fed.

....one can hope. (PS- Site management, you can probably make a nice wad of dough doing the conference thing, but you probably know that already).
edit on 2-4-2011 by Jason88 because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-4-2011 by Jason88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by boondock-saint
 


Cancer can be as easily induced as a heart attack, but don't get the dose wrong or spill it or your agency superiors will put you on the permaban for such newboniousness.

Radiation Poisoning Killed Ex-Russian Spy

Of course they doesn't prove either natural or induced were the case, but both are obviously a possibility.

CIA Whistleblower talks about Heart Attack gun

Heart attacks are old hat, btw, but still useful to keep the mix frothy.
edit on 2-4-2011 by Nefarious because: fancy them links up



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Jason88
Awesome post. S&F.

I totally agree that all politicians are the same once elevated to higher offices. Republican, Democrat, same party on a different platform to sell different lies to different people.

Here's a crazy thought. One way to get through to the majority of brainwashed Americans voting for either the left or right is to start are own party. One that's an offshoot of ATS, kinda like the site owner's April Fools Day joke.

I know that sounds simplistic, but we'd need to get together, face-to-face, at an ATS type conference or on a cruise ship or something, somewhere where keynote speeches, classes, and breakaway sessions are held on a myriad of topics from beginners courses on "how-to form and finance a party," "how to use media/social media to spread messages," to more advanced courses on proper debating techniques, recruiting and leveling the playing field.

I know it's wishful thinking on my part, but I feel like us, the awake people, have to do something sooner rather than later. We need each other, our friends and family, some money, strong leaders from the ATS community, and a damn good grasp on how to take control of the forth estate - that part is key for this thing to work.

Oh yeah, we'd all have to migrate away from the fringe topics many us entertain ourselves and get this started on another site, hopefully owned and operated by The Above Network. Once in power, screw it, open the can of worms on American as our ATS candidate will gain access to and disclose whatever conspiracy/lie we have been fed.

....one can hope. (PS- Site management, you can probably make a nice wad of dough doing the conference thing, but you probably know that already).


You know your best chance would be to get an ats lobby together. You know you'd stand no chance of winning an election but thanks to our system of government you have the same access to politicians that corporations have. If your lobby get's big enough they will listen to you.

Look at aarp, the biggest lobby in america, politicians run in fear of that group due to the power they weild. Well unions are the first but aarp is not far behind.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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While supporting 3rd parties and independents are important, particularly at this point in time given the two-party stranglehold, using a party only changes the name of the problem. It's the groupthink and other group behavioral failings that are a core component of the failure to get accurate representation in exchange for the circus of trophies.

Also, mathematically speaking, the desire to win (or play it like a sporting event) is exploited best by our current voting system. In order to prevent the multiple option ballot from actually exacerbating this failure it needs to change mechanically. Would it be unconstitutional to make the ballot a "FOR or AGAINST (or abstain)" proposition? In breaking away from the two party conundrum the restriction to only vote "FOR" increases the odds that someone actually preferred against wins. This is more easily demonstrated as more persons are listed on the ballot. For example, if they are 10 persons on the ballot, and 80% of the public would take persons 1-5 over person 10, person 10 could win with only 12 percent supporting through votes having better polarized a chunk of the 20% remaining. If those 80% were allowed to vote against any to which they were opposed it would correct this statistical exploitation.

Sorry I can better explain it in more down to earth terms - perhaps some here could.
edit on 2-4-2011 by Nefarious because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-4-2011 by Nefarious because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by kro32
 


Thanks for your informative post at the top of the page. Starred!

In response and after shaking off the effects of kool-aide, pixie dust, and magical unicorns, I too believe a third party is near impossible, but was kinda dreaming out loud there.


I do really like your idea about creating a lobby, an ATS-type lobby, with access to politicians and power brokers. Maybe this site could charge a fee and we the membership elect who is sent to Washington (they'd have to use their screen name though to demonstrate we're the most progressive, forward thinking group on the hill; like boondock-saint goes as boondock-saint).

What are the odds ATS management would seriously look into this, if they haven't already...

Anyway, thanks OP for the thought provoking post and once you get enough ATS points I believe you can directly link to your blog in your signature.
edit on 2-4-2011 by Jason88 because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-4-2011 by Jason88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by forall2see





Guess what.... theirs ground troops




any proof of this...



Yeah man... CIA operatives on the ground gathering info ( Or so that's what the MSM wants us to believe.)

Plus, what is the difference really if in fact we have aircraft that can hover at low altitude while firing high-caliber rounds at ground troops?

And do you REALLY believe that we are given all the facts in a situation like this? He couldn't even run it by congress.


Oh hell no I don't believe we are told everything... I knew about the CIA.. I thought you were claiming we had some SF guys in there or something(which wouldn't suprise me)... I was hoping you had an article or pictures or something I hadn't seen ... that's all...
edit on 2-4-2011 by wearewatchingyouman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Politicians are nothing more than puppets, being told what to do and how to vote by the REAL power mongers. People who stand by and defend a certain political party are blind fools.

If you want to know who pulls the strings of the politicians, follow the money.

If you want to know what the REAL agenda is, take notice some time of the things that continue no matter who or what party is in power.



Nation building ....... wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, now Libya.

NAFTA ....... initiated by Bush l (republican), signed into law by Clinton (democrat), Obama (democrat) said he would negotiate or repeal it ....... it continues to destroy American jobs.

No concern with border security. Bush (republican) did nothing, Obama (democrat) does nothing.

Wall Street, as well as many international foreign financial institutions, got bailed out by taxpayers under Bush (republican), Obama continued bailout (democrat).

The list could go on and on.

Once you make a list of all the things that continue, notice the direction they all point.

New World Order? One World Government?

Open your eyes people. Look past the partisanship that they try to blind you with.

Look at the big picture.

This is much, much bigger than they would have you believe.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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I have heard it called controlled opposition. I call it Coke and Pepsi. I am in agreement with you.

I had been in a position where I could really make a difference, I thought. I was intimately involved (not in a bad way) in a Republican campaign for a state House of Rep. I can tell you that it is a numbers game and is largely rigged and very difficult to unseat an incumbent. The districts are rigged by population in your favor. Your party makes sure of this. A new census comes out, redraw the lines (rules). This should be happening right about...now, in the favor of the Democrats. Did you know that all the money raised during your campaign, you get to keep whatever you don't spend? Real money there!! This individual that I helped, took no contributions. It didn't matter. A self funded, media heavy campaign. Long story, so I won't go there. But, I can assure you it was righteous and not self serving. Just fighting the good fight.

The only thing I can see that would change anything is a Ron Paul. He's as revolutionary as JFK and his brother. You know where they are. Or, uprisings like you see around the world. Who would arm us? Would guns even matter? With sound and microwave weapons, hard to say. Would our leadership step down? Turn against it's people? I'd prefer not to say. I would like to believe our soldiers wouldn't do it. The more robotic and automated our military gets, the more this won't matter.

The benefit of the above is: the wheels of change move so slow. Blood would be shed, but hopefully it would be over quickly in comparison.

I appreciate your time, opinion and effort.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Oh god, try explaining this to a die hard Republican or Democrat.

They are completely brainwashed, and only believe in the party rhetoric. If you try to explain the illusion of the two party system they just write you off as an enemy, or a card carrying member of the tin foil hat society (been a member for YEARS....



So in all honestly, if a person comes off as a huge supporter of either party I just tend to ignore them.


But I do find it hard sometimes how people can not connect the dots, things are so transparent these days, it seems they arn't even trying to hide the fact of world domination any longer.
edit on 2-4-2011 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by kro32
 


First time I ever voted was for Ross Perot. That is an important example of what can happen when a third party enters. Like I said before, Coke and Pepsi and then RC joins. How does one get RC cola to beat Coke and Pepsi? RC just hurts Coke and Pepsi sales.

Someone so perfect and clean would have to come available. No skeletons in their closet. Then, they would have to have some serious money. This new candidate couldn't necessarily play by the rules either. Remember what McCain and Obama agreed to regarding campaign funding? This candidate would hopefully be able to use the incumbents record against them, primarily because he doesn't have one. It's really a game. The right way to play it is to win so you can do what you want. Say whatever you have to say to get to where you're trying to go. Sound familiar? We just need someone that will do what the promised after they're elected.

For some reason they never do. Why? Does someone tell them something they didn't know? Ask JFK? Hell JFK turned against the Catholic church like was NEVER done before and publicly said where his allegiance was.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by jamesdouble07
 


Unfortunately, the system is so corrupt, there is ZERO chance that a third party canididate would be able to win an election.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by jnyblujns
 


Great post....looking forward to reading more of your thoughts. It's all about the lies...
What you choose to believe.like lemmings walking off a cliff



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by jnyblujns
 


I very much enjoyed reading and watching Tell me lies,Tell me sweet little lies... I did see recently someone on T.V. talking about all the secrets that are kept from the public in the name of not panicing the public. This individual said that most presidents do intend on doing their best at keeping most promises until they become president and learn of all the secrets and all the issues with keeping their promises. Then they become just another liar. We may never know why most presidents make different choices once they really get elected and have to make those hard choices. Yes I do believe there are quit a few lies that are knownly told by individuals while running for office. I also believe that sometimes they don't have a clue of some of the things they will find out once elected.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


America doesn't need another career politician.We need a CEO.
vote4trump2012.com...



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by flyingfish
 


not sold on him at all.....he did donate the Rahm



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by jnyblujns
 


It does not matter which putz is in office, they are mere puppets. They do not write their own speeches, they do not make their own decisions, everything is pre-determined. I have said it before, and I will say it again, this entire planet is run by the world bank period.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by jnyblujns
 


You know after I'd finished reading the OP I was going to comment something along the lines of "your preaching to the choir here man"... but after reading a couple of the posts on the first page it seems some here still don't get it even after thousands of posts on ATS... makes me think what hope is there for people in the mainstream. I try to stay away from forums like "US political madness" but the few times I see comments for and against other parties by people deeply immersed in this left-right paradigm of politics I just let 'em slide but I gotta say when I see older members do it, it makes me feel rather pessimistic about mass awakenings. Maybe there will just always be a stubborn few who were raised and lived that way and won't ever learn.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by MidnightTide
 


So what, that was then.
I have never seen anyone stand up to OPEC like Trump.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by flyingfish
 


I have seen them talk the talk for years, but once they get elected then the private interests take over.
edit on 2-4-2011 by MidnightTide because: (no reason given)





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