Illuminati: ArmageddonConspiracy vs. Fritz Springmeier, page 4

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reply posted on 1-7-2011 @ 05:09 PM by JoshNorton

Jefferson, who was a Grand Orient Mason of the famous Nine Sisters Lodge, and apparently a key Illuminatus…

While many Masons have tried to find evidence that Thomas Jefferson was a Mason, none has come to light. Jefferson did write about the Illuminati, and, in fact seems to have sided with some of Weishaupt's philosophies, but it's also clear from his writing that there would be no such need for secrecy if there were an Illuminati in America.

As Wishaupt lived under the tyranny of a despot & priests, he knew that caution was necessary even in spreading information, & the principles of pure morality.
…
I believe you will think with me that if Wishaupt had written here, where no secrecy is necessary in our endeavors to render men wise & virtuous, he would not have thought of any secret machinery for that purpose.

source

(why does it seem like I can turn to any random page in Springmeier's "Bloodlines of the Illuminati" and find at least one falsehood?)

edit on 2011.7.1 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-7-2011 @ 05:17 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Afterthought
I wish I could copy and paste parts of the back cover, but alas I can't. The fact that the book is fiction based on fact makes things a bit murky. The Illuminatus Chronicles on stated as being "Historical", which adds to the idea that they're more fact than fiction.

Shea and Wilson were editors at Playboy Magazine. They regularly got crank letters and conspiracy theories mailed to them, so they decided to write a trilogy of books, first published in 1975, that took ALL of the most absurd theories they could find and wrap them up into warring factions of powers that be.

The Historical Illuminatus series, written by Wilson alone years later, was a fictional account of the ancestors of many of the characters in the Illuminatus! trilogy. It also let him play with characters like Cagliostro, and I believe even a Frankenstien. (It's been 20+ years since I've read it). But really, from a fiction-writer's perspective, what he did isn't notably different than, say, Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon or Baroque Cycle.

Researching Robert Anton Wilson, I found this to be particularly interesting:
"Hagbard Celine, alter ego of Robert Anton Wilson"
From this site: www.blackcrayon.com...

The fact that he has an "alter ego" is exactly the kind of stuff that Springmeier speaks about. Alter egos and multiple personalities go hand in hand.

Celine isn't an alter ego. He's a character in Wilson's books.

reply posted on 1-7-2011 @ 05:20 PM by Afterthought

reply to post by JoshNorton

Really?

Here's a link with Celine listed as an author.
www.beyondweird.com...
Wilson was writing under the name of one of his fictional characters?

EDIT to Add: I got it now. I see that Wilson was really into bringing this character to life, but it still seems strange to me. It's as if Wilson was deliberately giving Celine a life of his own.

edit on 1-7-2011 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-7-2011 @ 05:23 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by JoshNorton

Really?

Here's a link with Celine listed as an author.
www.beyondweird.com...
Wilson was writing under the name of one of his fictional characters?

Excerpt from one of the books. Yes. What of it? Are you implying that all authors whose fictional characters write other text (in character) must be victims of ritual abuse? (If so, I can only imagine what you think of Heinlein's Notebooks of Lazarus Long...)

edit on 2011.7.1 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 1-7-2011 @ 05:29 PM by Afterthought

reply to post by JoshNorton

Calm down! I corrected myself after doing further reading. Not many authors create characters, then author books after them as though the book is their thoughts. Strange.

reply posted on 1-7-2011 @ 05:31 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by JoshNorton

Calm down! I corrected myself after doing further reading. Not many authors create characters, then author books after them as though the book is their thoughts. Strange.

It's really no different than fake bands from movies releasing real albums and going on tour. Spinal Tap, Mighty Wind, and Tenacious D come to mind...

reply posted on 1-7-2011 @ 05:37 PM by Afterthought

This is an interesting comment Wilson makes:
"I see anarchism as the theoretical ideal to which we are all gradually evolving to a point where everybody can tell the truth to everybody else and nobody can get punished for it. That can only happen without hierarchy and without people having the authority to punish other people."
- Robert Anton Wilson, the Utopia USA interview

What world did he live in where people got punished for telling the truth? I've never ever feared getting punished for telling the truth and I know nobody who has ever feared this. Springmeier expands upon how mind control victims are punished for telling the truth. They have alters who can even sit below the surface and listen to what they are telling people. One victim reveals that they told how their parents took them to ritual meetins at 2am. They were told never to tell this to anyone. Well, one day she did. When she was before her handler, he summoned the alter whose job it was to eavesdrop and ratted her out. I know this sounds unbelievable, but the brain is complicated.

reply posted on 1-7-2011 @ 05:39 PM by Afterthought

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by JoshNorton

Calm down! I corrected myself after doing further reading. Not many authors create characters, then author books after them as though the book is their thoughts. Strange.
It's really no different than fake bands from movies releasing real albums and going on tour. Spinal Tap, Mighty Wind, and Tenacious D come to mind...

So, you are aware that there is a band titled Hagbard Celine?
www.last.fm...

Thanks for the enlightening debate