Maine Republicans seek to loosen child labor laws

reply to post by Flatfish


and just exactly how did you get slavery from what i posted? did i say i supported forced labor? no

you people sure the hell dont like it when someone tries to take money out of your wallets but you people sure dont have any problems doing it to someone else.

which in my book makes you a hypocrite and the opinions that have been voiced in this thread thus far mean very little.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Flatfish

 

you people sure the hell dont like it when someone tries to take money out of your wallets but you people sure dont have any problems doing it to someone else.

In reality, it's the corporations who are taking money out of the workers pockets. Just because a company's name is hanging outside the door doesn't mean that every dollar the business takes in belongs to them. There are cost associated with doing business just like there are with living life in general and those cost, or the money taken in to cover them, never belonged to the corporation in the first place. I'm surprised you don't accuse the company's raw materials supplier of also taking money out of their pockets when they demand payment for supplies.

In case you hadn't noticed, corporations are raking in record profits while the american worker and the american economy suffer greatly. No one is trying to "take money out of your pockets," we are just asking for our "fair share" of the revenue that we help to generate.

IMO, the minimum wage that any company is allowed to pay should be calculated as a percentage of the highest paid person in that company. This method helps to keep greed in check and it insures that everyone who contributed in generating the company's products receives their fair share of the revenue derived from that product. I believe that Ben & Jerry's ice cream, among others, utilizes a business model similar to what I'm describing here. Within this type of a business model, everyone connected with the company is lifted up together as the company succeeds and no single sector, like employee wages & benefits, stagnates while company profit margins soar. Of course, that's just my opinion and I realize it means very little to you.

There was a not so distant time in America when American labor had a value other than only a monetary one. Everyday, Americans could open their newspaper to the Labor Section and read about what employees were accomplishing. American workers were valued for their work ethic, talent, and willingness to be loyal to a corporation.

After 30 years with corporations establishing themselves as multinational, owing no allegiance to America, the above no longer stands. Politicians talked about a cultural "return to traditional values" as a way to curry votes, but once in office saw fit to help corporations divorce themselves of their American workers, devaluing American families economically.

There was a time when minimum wage was the wage the teenager received, not the average working adult, who worked to support a family. During the Reagan Recession of the 1980s, many adults found themselves either losing their job or, if they were an older retired worker, needing to add to their retirement dollars. Teenagers were shoved aside in many jobs, particularly fast food, in order for the labor market to absorb those unemployed/underemployed/elderly workers.

American family wages were driven down further over the years, as business outsourced, insourced, lowered wages, and refused to pay a wage commensurate with the need to sustain a family above working poor. Americans traded lip service to "traditional values" for a devaluation of their income.

Now another loophole is being created by business and their friends in high places, to once again allow another devaluation of the American worker. Yes, these people want a Forward to the Past machine.

But this devaluation is more insidious, as Americans are expected to throw their young into the workforce, not just for lower wages at a time when adult wages are already low, but with the result of less family time and less time for education. Once again "family values" is trashed in favor of devaluing families economically.

....ha....there also used to be something called the "employee picnic" businesses used to have for their workers, as a show of business affective caring for their workforce. ...ha....try to have one when children are working longer hours, maybe even longer hours than their parents...even if those employees have get togethers. What a dysfunctional mess we've gotten ourselves into, Ollie.

reply to post by desert


You are so right! Now that America is witnessing what they really meant by their "We Want To Take Our Country Back" slogan, maybe we will wake up to the reality that they fully intend to "Take Us Back" to the days of legalized slavery, or "subsistence living," which is the same thing.

The Republican/Tea Party has manifested itself into a party completely devoid of moral and/or constitutional ethics. And now they want to put my children to work instead of me? What a Joke!

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Flatfish

 

and just exactly how did you get slavery from what i posted? did i say i supported forced labor? no

you people sure the hell dont like it when someone tries to take money out of your wallets but you people sure dont have any problems doing it to someone else.

which in my book makes you a hypocrite and the opinions that have been voiced in this thread thus far mean very little.

How is wanting fair and equitable treatment in the job market "taking money out of someones pocket"
Is it fair that large corporations such as oil companies pay no taxes, make record profits and still get subsidized by our tax dollars?
Where is your outrage concerning that?

It's much more comfortable for you to parrot back Rush and attack the American working man and middle class and completely ignore corporate welfare; isn't it?

There is your hypocrisy!

you people will never get it the people who are taking money out of your pockets is the federal government

they are the ones who set the rules and the regulations and who set the trade agreements and they are the ones who devalue the dollar all your anger and hatred is misplaced.

people who work at corporations are alot of average "joes" not every single person that works in a corporation is a millionaire or billionaire.

another fact that you people just seem to be forgetting is that income made elsewhere in the world is not taxable in this country it is only taxable when it is brought back into this country.

go ahead and hate them nothing i am going to say will change your minds but it is definately misplaced.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Taxes (at least over here) are payed FROM the amount you earn. You earn nothing, you pay nothing in taxes (and even get something). So it is not life or right to exist that is taxed, it is just income that is taxed.

This is also why I believe that any property taxes and such are not a good idea. Taxing income means that the payer always has the money to pay.

reply to post by Flatfish


See thats what that made me think..were all slaves then. he is openly defending himself in such a rmealrk one may want too mae to him. so everyones treated equaly hugh? thats why you wanna lower the minimum wage then hugh? same prob goes too for older people who cant find better jobs as well too i bet. what a liar. boo...
he sounds like a corporate whore, a fake kronie for that matter, and sounds to me, NWO suporter..make the middle class slaves. it smells to me, he would lvoe the old prison chain gangs doin his yardwork for him too...would that be considered treated equally lapage?

make less money, do more work* what about education? that isnt better? the more you make, the more they take* you all kow what im talking about---taxes* so maknig less and working hard for xamoutn of more hours means yuo get have more taken outta yuor paycheck then, thus making it harder to ake ends meet*
the state of maine sees everyone as teh same? yeah thats why your making more and a bous prob too , raise, compared to current minimum wage workers lapge hugh? the state is being fair? u making a very good salary? dont sound right to me at all. sounds like yuo want productivity, slave labor, chain gang prison work for what would be considered tablescraps for yuor veiwing and boasting pleasure*

I work in retail management. its fora CVS...they have had amosngt the worste human resources issues, next to walmart. hiring illegals, not payig women the same as men..sexual favors for full time positions...corporations* remember,t he lawyers for those comapnys are thier to protect them, even if you were absued or whatever..been thorugh this before. has issues at work at a cvs years ago, being bullied threatenend, assitant slept with an illegla alein co worker. i complained to human resources, and sure enough, they trie to turn it allaround on me..now ar eyuo sure this happened, you have no video or pictrues or anything to verify your crediblity..blah blah blah..looked like a creepy guy too.
so! since the state of CT board of labor dosnt wanna hear yuor problems, and corportaions have their lawyers to turnit all around on you...it would seem to me, teens or anyone willing to work for less than minimum wage, and lengthy huors, si being stepped on. it slike they work hand in hand. so thas why i strongly question thie lapages idea... when was the last time any local business had thier payroll or human resources audited? in todays retial markets...its all 'corrupt' at least what i seen. its who you kow, if they like yuo, and ar yuo gunna kep yuor mouth shut depsite being bent over. having to work for less than minimum wage, and no one to hear yuor legal rights, at a civil level...im not comfortabel with this guys idea at all.

They know, most people cant afford lawyers* and court time..tahts how n why they get awayw with it. once in less than a blue moon, one does go to court, but its closed door and prob have th eprson sign someting to secrecy..a comapny get sint rouble aand they kow it, they dont want the public to know about it* and since you singed to secrecy, so to speak, talking about it on cnn will bring you bak to court..only on you now. even though yuor telling the truth.
its like thier still afraid of justifyable lawsuites, the main reason for paying people less. the quality of shopping is that terrible by todays standards. corporate plaecs like walmart have pushed out our favorite store, and pretty much dried up the competition...whiich is supposed to be illegal. guess that changed when bush got into office. its systematic to me* the same sysem who invests in these modern day garbage dumps ( walmart, cvs's, walgreens) would love too see you working for less* breaking yuor arse while god know what else may happen too you.

Why can't it be something really simple. Like "Underage children are allowed to work of their own free will". If they are forced or abused it becomes a crime. I can't understand what would be the problem with that.

I say bring back the chimney sweep and child coal mine worker, lets get back to the good old days of the Victorian workhouse, who do these kids think they are nowadays? For the kids that dont want factory work and ask for "more" I know a man in London by the name of Fagin, with a group of young boys who like to pick a pocket or two.

Just keep in mind, that these are the very same people who are currently attempting to eliminate the right of workers to organize and be represented in the collective bargaining process. I guess it's their way of saying; "It's O.K. if you don't want the job anymore, because we'll hire your kids for even less."

Because of the fact that they don't know how to "bargain in good faith," they attempt to remove your right to do so, thereby totally eliminating the entire process, Problem Solved!

We are currently witnessing the same phenomena being orchestrated by the Republican/Tea Party majority in the House of Representatives and their constant attempts to usurp the U.S. Constitution, because they don't know how to conform to it's statutes as currently written, while they portray themselves as devout constitutionalist. What an absolute joke!

Reply to post by Maslo

All of our property is taxed. You can't even have a tenth of an acre plot without paying taxes. Which means you need an income. Which means you have to pay more taxes.

Property taxes are chains.

You could avoid them directly by renting. But then you're just paying somebody elses taxes and your own wage taxes.

We're all just sharecropping for the state.


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reply to post by thisguyrighthere

I'm late getting into this conversation, but I'd like to add one more point.

One of the whole purposes of this measure will be to eliminate minimum-wage workers in favor of child labor. Why pay minimum wage when you can hire a kid and then fire him/her when they have done enough time to merit a raise? They pretty much do this now in the fast-food industry. In the nineteenth century they used this tactic, along with hiring women for less than they paid men, and the result was men had a much harder time getting hired.

It's a not-so-subtle plan to lower the wages for the whole country. We will all soon be getting paid what they pay in third-world countries. The Republicans' dream.

Originally posted by Sestias
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

I'm late getting into this conversation, but I'd like to add one more point.

One of the whole purposes of this measure will be to eliminate minimum-wage workers in favor of child labor. Why pay minimum wage when you can hire a kid and then fire him/her when they have done enough time to merit a raise? They pretty much do this now in the fast-food industry. In the nineteenth century they used this tactic, along with hiring women for less than they paid men, and the result was men had a much harder time getting hired.

It's a not-so-subtle plan to lower the wages for the whole country. We will all soon be getting paid what they pay in third-world countries. The Republicans' dream.

You are quite right about this being "the republican dream". I posted a thread some time ago entitled "Right Wing Ideology In A Nutshell" where I included a link to an article by a blogger named "Conceptual Guerilla" that couldn't be any more to the point. His article was entitled "Defeat The Right In Three Minutes" and it's well worth reading, it can be found at this link but for some reason, you have to add the /55 after clicking on the link;

www.conceptualguerilla.com.../55

Here are some excerpts;

"Cheap labor". That's their whole philosophy in a nutshell – which gives you a short and pithy "catch phrase" that describes them perfectly. You've heard of "big-government liberals". Well they're "cheap-labor conservatives".

"Cheap-labor conservative" is a moniker they will never shake, and never live down. Because it's exactly what they are. You see, cheap-labor conservatives are defenders of corporate America – whose fortunes depend on labor. The larger the labor supply, the cheaper it is. The more desperately you need a job, the cheaper you'll work, and the more power those "corporate lords" have over you. If you are a wealthy elite – or a "wannabe" like most dittoheads – your wealth, power and privilege is enhanced by a labor pool, forced to work cheap.

Don't believe me. Well, let's apply this principle, and see how many right-wing positions become instantly understandable.

Cheap-labor conservatives don't like social spending or our "safety net". Why. Because when you're unemployed and desperate, corporations can pay you whatever they feel like – which is inevitably next to nothing. You see, they want you "over a barrel" and in a position to "work cheap or starve".
Cheap-labor conservatives don't like the minimum wage, or other improvements in wages and working conditions. Why. These reforms undo all of their efforts to keep you "over a barrel".
Cheap-labor conservatives like "free trade", NAFTA, GATT, etc. Why. Because there is a huge supply of desperately poor people in the third world, who are "over a barrel", and will work cheap.
Cheap-labor conservatives oppose a woman's right to choose. Why. Unwanted children are an economic burden that put poor women "over a barrel", forcing them to work cheap.
Cheap-labor conservatives don't like unions. Why. Because when labor "sticks together", wages go up. That's why workers unionize. Seems workers don't like being "over a barrel".
Cheap-labor conservatives constantly bray about "morality", "virtue", "respect for authority", "hard work" and other "values". Why. So they can blame your being "over a barrel" on your own "immorality", lack of "values" and "poor choices".
Cheap-labor conservatives encourage racism, misogyny, homophobia and other forms of bigotry. Why? Bigotry among wage earners distracts them, and keeps them from recognizing their common interests as wage earners.

Cheap-labor conservatives opposed virtually all of the New Deal, including every improvement in wages and working conditions.
Cheap-labor conservatives have a long and sorry history of opposing virtually every advancement in this country's development going right back to the American revolution.
Cheap-labor conservatives have hated Social Security and Medicare since their inception.
Many cheap-labor conservatives are hostile to public education. They think it should be privatized. But why are we surprised. Cheap-labor conservatives opposed universal public education in its early days. School vouchers are just a backdoor method to "resegregate" the public schools.
Cheap-labor conservatives hate the progressive income tax like the devil hates holy water.
Cheap-labor conservatives like budget deficits and a huge national debt for two reasons. A bankrupt government has a harder time doing any "social spending" – which cheap-labor conservatives oppose, and . . .
Wealthy cheap-labor conservatives like say, George W. Bush, buy the bonds and then earn tax free interest on the money they lend the government.[Check out Dubya's financial disclosures. The son of a bitch is a big holder of the T-bills that finance the deficit he is helping to expand.] The deficit created by cheap-labor conservatives while they posture as being "fiscally conservative" – may count as the biggest con job in American history.
"Free Trade", globalization, NAFTA and especially GATT are intended to create a world-wide "corporate playground" where national governments serve the interests of corporations – which means "cheap labor".
The ugly truth is that cheap-labor conservatives just don't like working people. They don't like "bottom up" prosperity, and the reason for it is very simple. lords have a harder time kicking them around. Once you understand this about the cheap-labor conservatives, the real motivation for their policies makes perfect sense. Remember, cheap-labor conservatives believe in social hierarchy and privilege, so the only prosperity they want is limited to them. They want to see absolutely nothing that benefits the guy – or more often the woman – who works for an hourly wage.

Anyway, that thread never gained much steam but, needless to say, it's more than relevant now that the republican party is overtly attempting to deprive our children of a decent education and send them to work instead.