The Forgotten Victims to a Genuine Conspiracy

Originally posted by Rising Against

Agreed and personally I'm a really big believer in that the ones whom were truly responsible for directly making the decisions which led to the demise of John F Kennedy were none other than Lyndon B. Johnson and Edgar J. Hoover. There obviously isn't any conclusive evidence to prove such a thing - nothing I would be able to find anyway but as the saying goes, where there is smoke there is fire..

Johnson also had a lot to gain by ridding the world of Kennedy and a lot to lose by keeping him alive. A lot to gain in an obvious way and a lot to lose in the sense that as far as I believe, he was on his way out of office anyway. Maybe even into the comfort of a jail cell instead due to corruption charges brought against him - ones which were set to be revealed in LIFE magazine quite conveniently on the day they showed the Zapruder film slides instead:

Rising Against, I hope this is not of topic or discussed already, but here is another possibility which I take very serious.

Was JFK silenced for knowing too much about the UFO situation and did he had therefore the intention to open up some important information about it?

And I take that possibility very serious because of the extreme importance it has to keep that subject secret at ALL costs.
Because seeing how it all was done, the assassination itself by if I am correct more than one sniper, and those 100 [I am really perplexed due this number of people] individuals suspected of prematurely dying from their knowledge and or involvement in the JFK assassination gives me the strong impression that it could only have been done at such a scale by a very powerful group who are as said earlier indeed above the law.
And do such groups exist; I am personally convinced of that.
It is therefore interesting to listen to what Senator Daniel Inouye said here.

Van: bassim3d
Senator Daniel K. Inouye in 1987 Chaired the Senate Select Committee on Secret Military Assistance to Iran and the Nicaraguan Opposition, which held public hearings on the Iran-Contra affair.

Senator Daniel Inouye on as he did call it "the shadow government".



Look also for instance what Jim Marrs said about that.

Yet another document appears to be a memorandum written from President Kennedy to the director of the CIA regarding "Classification review of all UFO intelligence files affecting National Security."
In this memo, Kennedy stated, "... I have initiated [blacked out] and have instructed [then NASA Administrator] James Webb to develop a program with the Soviet Union in joint space and lunar exploration.
It would be very helpful if you would have the high threat cases reviewed with the purpose of identification of bona fide as opposed to classified CIA and USAF sources.
It is important that we make a clear distinction between the knowns and unknowns in the event the Soviets try to mistake our extended cooperation as a cover for intelligence gathering of their defense and space programs.”
Kennedy then asked for all files on "Unknowns" to be turned over the NASA authorities and an interim report be forwarded to the White House no later than Feb.1, 1964.

This document which clearly showed a president about to make UFO secrets available to wider circles in government and, hence, probably available to the public was dated Nov. 12, 1963, just 10 days before his Nov. 22 assassination in Dallas.

www.ufoevidence.org...

reply to post by mossme89


Hey Mossme89, thanks for your post.

This is slightly off-topic, but do you think such a stunt like this, the whole assassination, could be pulled off today (assuming it's a conspiracy)? I mean, tweets would be up within seconds and YouTube videos would be up within minutes.

That's actually hard to answer in all honesty but If I was really honest with myself, I do think It would be possible still - something of this nature anyway. As the saying goes, "If It can happen once, It can happen again." The only thing is, with today, we would 100% have images and videos of the events, like you point out. We wouldn't just be left with what is a highly contentious Zapruder film like we seem to have with this case. (although remember, most videos on the day, particularly Beverly Olivers, were taken away by secret service never to be seen again - something that can't happen today with new technology like mobile phone cameras which everyone has).

As as far as I believe, It's no longer possible to have an open top presidential limousine anymore as well, but an assassination from other means would still be possible. Perhaps one behind closed doors to avoid what occurred with JFK and to wholly avoid the video/image analysis.

In regards to the witnesses, I think that would be possible too. I mean, let's not forget that everyone mentioned, all those whom surely died as a result of a conspiracy died over a relatively long period of time. From around shortly after the assassination to around the late 70's (many after this period, I don't consider to have died as the result of a conspiracy). So It's not like It was an operation to get people quiet as soon as possible, this was seemingly a heavily planned and carefully done operation. On the most part anyway.

Having looked into it myself, I'm pretty confident another JFK would be more than possible if done only slightly differently. Btw, just look at the De-classified document, Operation Northwoods as an example of what our governments are capable of. That alone IMO suggests anything of this manner is possible yet again.

reply to post by spacevisitor


Hey space, great post.

Well, you know me, If I’m not “clued up” on a topic or an issue being discussed, I’ll be more than happy to admit it. And, well, this is one of those issues to be completely honest. The whole JFK – UFO connection and so on. That being so, I do still have to disagree with the notion which states that JFK was killed because of what knowledge he was planning on making available to the public, or what he knew about UFOs and aliens, despite my lack of overall knowledge on the subject. And this is one of the issues I do have to disagree with Jim Marrs on also.

You see, I'm very much so a big believer in the theory which states that JFK had died as a result of his father's involvement, alongside the failed Bay of pigs operation, tied in with the actions of the president and his brother against a certain group of individuals who weren't exactly used to being told what to do - and they decided they weren't going to be told what to do much longer.

Now, going back to the very beginning, we know that It's certainly no lie that Joseph Kennedy Sr., the father of JFK, was pretty much desperate to become president of the United States someday. And he was admittedly quite close making it to the position of Ambassador to Britain, the first man of Irish descent to hold the position. But his dreams of presidency were to be dashed as he made his own public views on the delicate subject of the war, as he wanted to appease Hitler in his time in the government as well as wanting the United States to stay out of the war between Germany and Britain completely, public. Something which was not popular in the slightest and resulted in a ruined career in fact.

During this same war that he hated the idea of so desperately, both his sons attended, John F Kennedy & Joseph Kennedy Jr. JFK actually embarking on one of the most heroic acts to come out of the war (which made JFK a very well known figure before politics) and Joseph unfortunately dying after crashing his plane in a top secret mission over France I believe.

Due to his death, JFK was then prepped for the presidency by his father, as previously Joseph had been the primary candidate for such a thing. JFK, eventually rose through the ranks so to speak, with plenty of help from his father whom was very knowledgeable in the going-ons of politics as well as having a healthy bank balance. Something he seemingly wasn't afraid to use. Not that JFK wasn't a good politician or anything, It's just the money maybe helped him rise faster than he should've done - something a lot didn't seem to like for obvious reasons.

When JFK decided to run for president, Joseph Sr. seemed to throw himself into it, again, alongside his wallet. As the theory goes, he ended up attempting to and then being successful in bribing the mafia - particularly Sam Giancana, the mafia boss for Chicago at the time. After all, he knew them and dealt with them from his bootlegging days so It's not a great surprise really. Anyway, they were bribed to rig the very important Illinois vote (which is where It was won I believe), and in turn JFK, as president, will leave the mafia alone and let them deal with whatever they wished to deal with - primarily making money in Cuba IMO.

In fact, in 1992, Sam Giancana's own Nephew of all people published 'Double Cross: The Story of the Man Who Controlled America', It was a book which had attempted to explain how the rigging of the elections was in fact achieved by Sam Giancana and co. It is also argued in the book, that after he did do so, Kennedy then reneged on the deal (which was bribed by his father) and therefore Giancana had him killed. Thus the motivation for the assassination of the president.

Don't forget that Giancana is mentioned in my OP and if you knew the way he died, you would wholly agree with him being there also. Anyway, once president, the complete opposite of the bribery deal, which some say JFK and RFK were possibly not even aware of, had occurred. You see, they literally went after the mafia rather than leave them alone. Particularly RFK. I believe they desperately tried to jail some of them as well as have many deported and as you can imagine, this didn't go down well at all.

Now, the Bay of pigs operation, let me state at this point the Mafia were secretly working with the CIA - particularly with Cuba affairs at this time. I believe Johnnie Roselli in particular was attempting, or making it seem as though, he was trying to get Castro assassination. Anyway, the bay of pigs was a complete mess to sum it up in only a few words.

But, IMO, It wasn't Kennedy's fault in the slightest, the CIA seemingly went behind his back to make it happen - with the help of the mafia, something the Kennedy brothers were not happy about at all. Kennedy was subsequently blamed for what happened and not "aiding his dying men". Something that could have sealed his fate.

Btw, here's an interesting snippet from my OP one of of the key government figures whom grew to hate the Kennedy's due to what occurred with overall relations in Cuba too:

William Harvey:

William Harvey - Was according to researchers such as Richard D. Mahoney, Larry Hancock, John Simkin, Gaeton Fonzi, James Richards and also Noel Twyman, quite possibly involved in the actual assassination of JFK. He is someone whom is heard to have said that he "hated Bobby Kennedy's guts with a purple passion" this allegedly according to a friend of his.

Reason being that During the Cuban Missile Crisis, Robert Kennedy had instructed the then CIA director, John McCone, to halt all covert operations specifically aimed at Cuba. A few days later he discovered that Harvey had ignored this order (Harvey being the head of Task Force at the CIA JM/WAVE station in Miami) and had dispatched three commando teams into Cuba to prepare for what he believed would be an inevitable invasion.

Kennedy was furious and as soon as the Cuban Missile Crisis was over, Harvey was removed as commander of ZR/RIFLE. On 30th October, 1962, RFK terminated "all sabotage operations" against Cuba. As a result of President Kennedy kept his promise to Nikita Khrushchev that he would not invade Cuba, Operation Mongoose was disbanded.

In '61 though, Harvey arranged for CIA operative, Jim O'Connell, to meet Sam Giancana, Santo Trafficante, Johnny Roselli and Robert Maheu at the Fontainebleau Hotel. During the meeting O'Connell gave poison pills and $10,000 to Rosselli to be used against Fidel Castro.

Harvey was demoted and sent to Italy to work and It was hear he developed such a hatred for the Kennedy's. And It was also at this time he kept continual contact with the mafia - specifically Roselli. In fact they even met in New York on the 8th of April. Then a week later in Miami. According to Richard D. Mahoney: "On April 21 he (Harvey) flew from Washington to deliver four poison pills directly to Rosselli, who got them to Tony Varona and hence to Havana. That same evening, Harvey and Ted Shackley, the chief of the CIA's south Florida base, drove a U-Haul truck filled with the requested arms through the rain to a deserted parking lot in Miami. They got out and handed the keys to Rosselli.""

William Harvey died in 1976 after allegedly suffering heart complications. Although It's heavily hinted at that he certainly did have a hand in the assassination of the president thus this potentially being the true cause on why he had to die.

And don't underestimate just how many there was whom just hated Bobby and John Kennedy because of this failed bay of pigs operation as well as what was happening with Cuba. I mean, people literally hated them with a passion for it. People in relatively high positions.

It was these 2 things which, IMO, caused the death of John F. Kennedy and later Bobby Kennedy also. So, I really don't think It has anything to do with UFO's or alien technology or even anything like that. I genuinely do think that people just hated the president and his brother and they desperately set out to kill them and to once and for all rid the world of them.

Anyway, that's my shortened theory on why JFK really did die. I could type all day but I tried to get the least amount of information I felt was necessary to understand the reasoning for why I subscribe to my theory as opposed to the one being presented here. I think the UFO connection was made simply because we just want to believe in UFO's and we want to believe Kennedy died for a reason close to home for us, personally.

I don't think there is much more to it than that really. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the UFO connection more but I've just never seen enough reason to fully believe that was the reason why he had to die.

For anyone interested, I just watched this fascinating video. It's worth a watch for those interested in this case:

reply to post by Rising Against


Thanks so much! I love Marilyn

You would make an awesome dedective

Originally posted by amp1214
reply to post by Rising Against

 

Thanks so much! I love Marilyn

lol, Yeah same. Such a shame she had to die when she did as well, especially 2 months before Kennedy himself did.

You would make an awesome dedective

Well, we all know what happens to detectives of this case...

Originally posted by research100
this would make a good book, like the others have said!

Maybe one day, who knows.

reply to post by Rising Against


Wow that is a lot of info. I think you should write a book about this and get the word out to more people

Originally posted by Rising Against
And, well, this is one of those issues to be completely honest. The whole JFK – UFO connection and so on. That being so, I do still have to disagree with the notion which states that JFK was killed because of what knowledge he was planning on making available to the public, or what he knew about UFOs and aliens, despite my lack of overall knowledge on the subject. And this is one of the issues I do have to disagree with Jim Marrs on also.

Hi Rising Against, thanks for your reply.
That you disagree with that possibility is no problem of course, be shore that I respect your opinion about it.
But regarding this case, all we can in fact do is speculate about why and by whom he was assassinated, and to be honest, I do not expect that we will ever come to know what the real reason was and whom it did.

Please allow me some time to read your shortened [for me still quite a bit] theory.
"I'll be back".

Originally posted by austingoeshard
reply to post by Rising Against

 

Wow that is a lot of info. I think you should write a book about this and get the word out to more people

You should get points for being like the 100th member to tell me to write a book now, lol..

reply to post by spacevisitor

Hi Rising Against, thanks for your reply.

That you disagree with that possibility is no problem of course, be shore that I respect your opinion about it.
But regarding this case, all we can in fact do is speculate about why and by whom he was assassinated, and to be honest, I do not expect that we will ever come to know what the real reason was and whom it did.

Agreed and It's admittedly really frustrating that all we can really do at this point now is speculate. It's made even more frustrating by the fact that this is just such an obvious and 'clear as day' conspiracy.

Please allow me some time to read your shortened

[for me still quite a bit] theory.
"I'll be back".

lol, trust me, there Is soo many people to go into when looking at who could be involved - and that's just directly. Not just that too, but so many key events to analyze as well (such as the meeting between Oswald, Ruby, Johnson, Hoover, Tolson and many more I believe the night before the assassination as well as many more events yet again).

So much to speculate and debate over. My last post was just the very key points which, IMO, directly caused the assassination.

reply to post by Rising Against


It was Jim Bishop, thank you. I am also searching for the book. I know I still have it somewhere. I was also wondering if you could recommend any particular books on the subject that I might find in the public library(free that is)? I ask because there is so many books about it, that its hard to determine whats a worthy read and whats not. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Peace

Originally posted by Rising Against

Agreed and It's admittedly really frustrating that all we can really do at this point now is speculate. It's made even more frustrating by the fact that this is just such an obvious and 'clear as day' conspiracy.

That it is obvious a 'clear as day' conspiracy for you and for me and I assume for more people does not mean that it is such for the majority of people.
And it seems to me that the majority of the people believe the official story, and that is one important reason for why I believe that there will never come a new investigation.
The same happens in my opinion with even the biggest 'clear as day' conspiracies ever, which happened in 2001.

Originally posted by Rising Against

Anyway, that's my shortened theory on why JFK really did die. I could type all day but I tried to get the least amount of information I felt was necessary to understand the reasoning for why I subscribe to my theory as opposed to the one being presented here. I think the UFO connection was made simply because we just want to believe in UFO's and we want to believe Kennedy died for a reason close to home for us, personally.

I don't think there is much more to it than that really. Don't get me wrong, I prefer the UFO connection more but I've just never seen enough reason to fully believe that was the reason why he had to die.

Quite an interesting read buddy and I see that you did study it all very thoroughly.
I cannot say other than that you did show me enough information here that gives me indeed the impression that you can be right here.

Originally posted by Rising Against

I think the UFO connection was made simply because we just want to believe in UFO's

Just a short reaction on what you say here, it is not a matter of wanting to believe in UFO's anymore, because it is as clear as day now that UFO’s/UAP’s exists in our skies.
And with UFO’s/UAP’s I mean the following.

There exists in our skies, worldwide, a solid, physical phenomenon that appears to be under intelligent control and is capable of speeds, maneuverability, and luminosity beyond current known technology.

It’s an excerpt from the marvelous book “UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record” from Leslie Kean which I can strongly recommend you to read.

Originally posted by dalemcfad
reply to post by Rising Against

 

It was Jim Bishop, thank you. I am also searching for the book. I know I still have it somewhere. I was also wondering if you could recommend any particular books on the subject that I might find in the public library(free that is)? I ask because there is so many books about it, that its hard to determine whats a worthy read and whats not. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Peace

I've been talking to a few people and I could have my own sometime soon, so there's one I'd recommend for you.

Anyway, seriously, here is a fantastic link for Kennedy Assassination books. I really think that link will be beneficial to you, so please do take the time to check It out.

The one that sticks out in my mind from that list is one from the respected researcher, Jim Marrs also and his book Crossfire. That's one that anyone interested in this case should certainly read, IMO.

reply to post by spacevisitor

Quite an interesting read buddy and I see that you did study it all very thoroughly.
I cannot say other than that you did show me enough information here that gives me indeed the impression that you can be right here.

Well, I may start a new thread one day and go further into it, because I only really scratched the surface with that last post.

You know, I really can’t get across just how much actually comes into play concerning the assassination of Kennedy.

Just a short reaction on what you say here, it is not a matter of wanting to believe in UFO's anymore, because it is as clear as day now that UFO’s/UAP’s exists in our skies.
And with UFO’s/UAP’s I mean the following.

Good point but Alien life and Visitation isn't a known fact as of right now, so wanting to believe in them unfortunately is still an option we have. And I believe we connect JFK to them simply because there may be a slight connection (nothing groundbreaking) that we (as a collective whole) then take, and turn into something huge.

Making mountains out of mole hills as the saying goes.

It’s an excerpt from the marvelous book “UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record” from Leslie Kean which I can strongly recommend you to read.

It’s been added to ‘the list’.

Originally posted by Rising Against

Originally posted by austingoeshard
reply to post by Rising Against

 

Wow that is a lot of info. I think you should write a book about this and get the word out to more people

You should get points for being like the 100th member to tell me to write a book now, lol..

edit on 3-4-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)

Well here comes the 101st !!

Oh and remember who your agent is

xx

reply to post by uk today

Oh and remember who your agent is

A sponsorship deal and you can have your 6 figure paycheck, kay?

xx

reply to post by Rising Against


Seriously I'm calling a business meeting on thursday, and top of the agenda is your book

Followed by lunch.....

xx

reply to post by uk today


Looking forward to it.

Btw, I fear we may have gone ever so slightly off topic.

Impressive to say the least!! A MOUNTAIN of information that cannot be denied. You sir, have earned a raise.