China tells US Pacific Command chief military contact with Taiwan must stop

Looks like china is realizing that the US is making Taiwan stronger and they don't want that cuz they want to invade it and take it over as easily as possible so they are crying and whining about the US training and selling Taiwan new equipment so they complain the US admirals who just pretend to be listening to the taiwanese

"The United States should clearly understand the seriousness and sensitiveness of the Taiwan situation," Li told Admiral Thomas Fargo, commander in chief of the US Pacific Command who is in Beijing for talks.

He said arms sales to Taiwan should be halted and the US must "stop its relevant military exchanges aiming to upgrade the substantial relationship with Taiwan", the Xinhua news agency reported.

Fargo is in China to meet with senior defence officials just days after the State Department urged China and Taiwan to ensure that military exercises both sides are conducting are not provocative.

China has been training 18,000 troops on Dongshan Island 150 nautical miles west of Taiwan and large scale joint sea, land and air drills in the area were imminent, the pro-Beijing Wen Wei Po newspaper said Friday.

So the Chinese say its bad for the American military to train and equip Taiwan with advanced weapons but yet they train their troops for an invasion

www.spacewar.com...


[edit on 23-7-2004 by WestPoint23]

heh. stupid china. i say let em invade, and we'll just smash them like no other. itll give our military to get some good training in. itll be over that quick.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
heh. stupid china. i say let em invade, and we'll just smash them like no other. itll give our military to get some good training in.

itll be over that quick.

You are getting best training in Iraq and Afganistan: Straight to Hell!

Zcheng, it is a light warfare in Iraq, we are not even using the heavy stuff. The Subs, The carriers, cruise missles etc. It really is a light war with soldier to soldier combat, M1 tanks, patriot missles, hummvees here and there. Believe me if we wanted to we could do it. I mean we took the Japanses occupied islands in WW2 50 years ago. Do you seriously think we cant do it again with a smaller enemy?

[edit on 23-7-2004 by TACHYON]

[edit on 23-7-2004 by TACHYON]

That's right. The US is fighting on foreign soil with new tactics. We have never fought in that environment before, the dust storm, the heat, everything is so new to us.

With Taiwan, it is familiar soil for. Why? Because the cultural differences are not as different as in the Mid East. We are not fighting with terrorists who are cutting off people's heads to reach their objectives. I believe Zcheng is against this also? Cutting off people's heads is the worst thing man can do. Plus we are fighting a defensive war, not offensive if China decides to attack Taiwan. The terrain, the soil, everything is so familiar to us and the Taiwainese.

Water seperates the two countries, China and Tainwan (and please don't argue that Taiwan is not a country, because it is irrelevant, Zcheng. This is my personal opinion.) When China organizes its massive troops to invade, it has to get over the water body, and it is a painful or slow process.

Mobilizing China's troops onto Taiwanese's soil would be a tragic mistake, it would cause China A LOT of casualties. Hey the air and water is dominated by the US, i dont think China would want to risk its planes and subs to open the war. Patriot missiles shoot planes down. Western subs firing missiles against China's subs.

Firing missiles is not effective because they would be intercepted by our own Patriot missiles. If China decided to fire on civilians, it would be a major mistake because they world would turn against them.

The only way to win the war is through politics and mass troop invasion, in which China does not know how to do very well. The way i look at it. The US has more reasons to stay than China has to invade. It is a more costly war for China than for Taiwan.

Originally posted by TACHYON
Zcheng, it is a light warfare in Iraq, we are not even using the heavy stuff. The Subs, The carriers, cruise missles etc. It really is a light war with soldier to soldier combat, M1 tanks, patriot missles, hummvees here and there.

What was not used by US in the invasion? How many carrier group was near Iraq, and participated in the war?

What was used by Iraqi army? Missiles, war planes, laser weapons?
What Iraqi resistance now use are mainly RPGs, AK-47, and IEDs. But US still can not contain them, with all the hi-tech weapon US have.

In war with China, do you think those carrier will be so confident to enter Taiwan strait or stay close? China has various missiles for saturation attack. US carriers better stay out the range of its fighter planes to China, like 1000 km to Taiwan.

Do you know 2000 US troops just withdrew from their actions in Afgainstan?

I mean we took the Japanses occupied islands in WW2 50 years ago. Do you seriously think we cant do it again with a smaller enemy?

Yes, I know. But remember the cost on US side? See following:

Okinawa Campaign: April 1 - June 14, 1945
Operation Iceberg, the US invasion of Okinawa, involved over 450,000 troops and 1200 transports in what was the largest naval operation mounted in the Pacific. About 130,000 Japanese troops defended the island from entrenched positions and they proved a formidable obstacle. Kamikaze attacks against the American naval forces also took a heavy toll. Almost all the Japanese defenders were killed, as well as about 42,000 of the 450,000 civilians on the island. Only 10,755 were taken prisoner. US casualties amounted to 12,500 killed and 35,500 wounded.

Do you know why US dropped 2 nuclear bombs? False pride and confidence will make US suffer more.

Originally posted by jazzmaster
We have never fought in that environment before, the dust storm, the heat, everything is so new to us. With Taiwan, it is familiar soil for.

Yes, it is different, otherwise how can US tanks invade a country at 60 km per hour? Is iraqi terrain, better or worse than Vietnam? There is not jungle in Iraq, and Iraqi resistance are difficult to hide, and can only hide in the population.

Taiwan is more similar to Vietnam, of course, you can do better there.

We are not fighting with terrorists who are cutting off people's heads to reach their objectives. I believe Zcheng is against this also? Cutting off people's heads is the worst thing man can do.

First of all, I have doubt whether some of the deheadings were done by Mossad/CIA.

Second, I believe all invaders should be killed without any mercy.

Third, Deheading is not a civil thing to do. A bullet will be better. But those invaders deserve that for what they have done. For a person to die, there is not much difference in the way to die.

Plus we are fighting a defensive war, not offensive if China decides to attack Taiwan. The terrain, the soil, everything is so familiar to us and the Taiwainese.

Taiwan is part of China. Taiwan issue is the internal affairs of China. If US dare to attack PLA forces, US is the invading force. Taiwan is not part of US, so US is not defensive. Taiwan was and is never a country.

When China organizes its massive troops to invade, it has to get over the water body, and it is a painful or slow process. Mobilizing China's troops onto Taiwanese's soil would be a tragic mistake

China can use missile and airplanes to take out positions of Taiwan, before full scale transportation of PLA.

Hey the air and water is dominated by the US, i dont think China would want to risk its planes and subs to open the war. Firing missiles is not effective because they would be intercepted by our own Patriot missiles.

Yes, US dominate world Oceans, but not the water near Coast of China. Missiles can take out carriers. There is such exercise now near DongShan island. Patriot Missiles can take out a few. What about 20 or more supersonic missiles attack at the same time from different directions?

US should stay out mud of Taiwan.

Zcheng the Taiwanese people like the US they don't like china plus the Chinese wont even get one soldier on Taiwanese soil heres is why they have to get past 7 carriers 21 suns 450 jets and 14 destroyers and 14 cruisers and a whole lot of missile systems on Taiwan so the Chinese will be sunk in the water and blow out of the sky by the US its that simple.

Also in Iraq we are trying to win the harts and minds if we wanted to cut down on insurgency we could do it like someone said blow up every thing have tanks destroy everything just be ruthless bur we are not doing that. Also zcheng since you believe that the invaders should be killed no mercy than the Chinese should be killed no mercy. And according to you the invading army of the allies in Germany should have been killed without any mercy right? Great logic genius.

Third, Deheading is not a civil thing to do. A bullet will be better. But those invaders deserve that for what they have done. For a person to die, there is not much difference in the way to die.

What invaders you call beheading civilians a good thing because the civilians that are there for reconstruction should be killed zcheng that is the worst think you can say

China can use missile and airplanes to take out positions of Taiwan, before full scale transportation of PLA.

zcheng have you forgotten the patriot missiles will defend against the missiles and how are the Chinese jets going to get past 450 US jets they will be blow out the sky your pilots are nothing compared to US top guns and US airforce pilots and you planes suck compared to F-15 F-14 plus not to mention you will be outnumbered.

Also like I said its impossible for china to transport troops their ships will be sunk before they even reach Taiwan and their transport planes will be blown out the sky they cant get troops to Taiwan its that simple.


[edit on 24-7-2004 by WestPoint23]

"Taiwan is part of China. Taiwan issue is the internal affairs of China. If US dare to attack PLA forces, US is the invading force. Taiwan is not part of US, so US is not defensive. Taiwan was and is never a country."

And if China attacks the US on Taiwain, it is a defensive move? I doubt that the US would make an offensive move before China.

I also doubt that number ground troops would be so large that China would waste its missiles onto some ground troops. The number of ground troops in Taiwan is quite small, they would be all around the coast in limited number. It is China's troops that would be fired upon due to mass number of troops moving.

The thing is, China has missiles, but not enough to bet them on troops, they would be fired upon infrastructures instead. Almost all of them are civilian's, doing a hostile act of upon civilian would not get international vote. Believe me, China is really desperate to win this war that they would try anything and that will get them in trouble.

The Taiwanese island is so small that civilans cover almost the entire island, China does not have precision capability good enogh to strike like the US during the Guld Wars.

No Taiwan is not Vietnam. Vietnam was a jungle war. Taiwan would a "long distance" war. Taiwan would be a military tech showoff between the US and China. Taiwan is just a playground. I doubt that China would want to risk its troops. I say again, China ground troops WILL be reduced significantly when crossing over the water. It would be either by missiles, which China has no defense over, or water mines, which will happen, or by subs, in which China has no defense either.

The US also dominates the air, along with the water. I say ground, China has a small advantage over due to mass number. China has the largest air force in the world but over 4,000 aircrafts are copy of the venerable Russian MiG-19. The rest are also copies of Russian's and other countries. I do see one aircraft that do not resembles Western aircrafts. China does not have Early Warning system like the US. That will be a disadvantage for China. Chinese pilots could flood the sky with fighters but they cannot coordinate to work together. China does not have any experience fighting air war, the US does, that's a plus.

And like WestPoint23 said, our US forces over in the Mid East are trying to win the hearts of the people and we are helping to rebuild that country into a better one. Like WestPoint23 said, we enough weapons to go raid the entire country if we want to, but we are not doing that now, right?

I do not believe Sun Tzu mentioned anything about beheading people like that right. He said war is an art. He said "In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to recapture an army entire than to destroy it." We are not even fighting and you are pulling out the kill the enemy without mercy card. I belive Buddism talks about peace and war is only last resort. But then, it teaches that killing is only to defend, and you should make it as humane as possible. Buddists are taught to be calm. Buddists are also taught not kill living things even if they are bugs or ants. Buddism plays a major role in your people's lives even if you're not one, and now you are talking about beheading people like it is a thing to do. What kind of God or Budda talks about violence like that? It is a shame that people like this exist even on this very earth.


[edit on 24-7-2004 by jazzmaster]

Originally posted by jazzmaster
And if China attacks the US on Taiwain, it is a defensive move? I doubt that the US would make an offensive move before China.

You think PLA will attack US forces crossing Taiwan strait. History will repeat its self. Remember what US ships did when PLA takes out Taiwan ships around year 1958? PLA will not attack US ships, but when US attacks PLA, US ships will be destroyed by saturated missile attacks. There is no business of US in Taiwan strait, so better stay out of the water of trouble.

I say again, China ground troops WILL be reduced significantly when crossing over the water. The US also dominates the air, along with the water.

I also emphasize again:
If US ships dare to attack PLA will rest in the bottom of Pacific. It would be either by missiles, which US has no defense over, or water mines, which will happen, or by subs, in which US has no defense either.

Yes. I say again: US do not have dominance in waters near coast of China.

And like WestPoint23 said

What WestPoint23 and FredT uttered is no better than Bull#. I have ignored whatever they say.

I belive Buddism talks about peace and war is only last resort.

Yes. Even I believe in some form of Buddism, and love for peace. But that does not mean, you should do nothing to get slaughtered. US is for peace, is the biggest joke in the planet. China do not want to kill anyone, but when it comes to Taiwan Independence, there will be no mercy for anyone support it.

If you are for peace, US should stay out of Taiwan strait. No US business there!


[edit on 25-7-2004 by zcheng]

it's a joke if china solve taiwan peoblem by using military force will get critical words around the world. look how many countries have diplomacy relationship with taiwan?? and how much with china? even usa government do not recognise taiwan as a country. wake up people , u government put its hands in taiwan just for its own benefit. did u find weapons of mass drstruction in iraq?? of course not but u find a lot of oil.
fact speaks for itself and if u dare to help taiwan every chinese will split their blood with ur self-conceit american soilders and don't forget not all taiwanese support independant, their have chinese name and speak chinese how can every taiwanese welcome u there? make everything clear in case something will make u embarrassed happen when u think people will see u as heros.

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
heh. stupid china. i say let em invade, and we'll just smash them like no other. itll give our military to get some good training in.

itll be over that quick.

You are getting best training in Iraq and Afganistan: Straight to Hell!

thats 250,000 soilders in iraq. we have a total around 1,000,000 give or take a few. not to mention that were not using our big toys. were saving those for someone like...china for instance

A war between the US and China would be... well.... terrible.

Originally posted by KrazyIvan

Originally posted by zcheng

Originally posted by KrazyIvan
heh. stupid china. i say let em invade, and we'll just smash them like no other. itll give our military to get some good training in.

itll be over that quick.

You are getting best training in Iraq and Afganistan: Straight to Hell!

thats 250,000 soilders in iraq. we have a total around 1,000,000 give or take a few. not to mention that were not using our big toys. were saving those for someone like...china for instance

A war with china would be a catastrophy. If you think by us using our "big stuff" would be enough to "smash them like no other" you're obviously ill taught in china's power. A war between these two nations would spell disastor for the entire world. It'd be a major battle for years. Factories would switch over to make war materials (much like WWII) and both China's and US's economies would collapse.

Thats taking into consideration neither of the country's allies get involved.

Think a little before you go claiming the USofA is the greatest military in the world. We may have the best equipment, but to be perfectly honest with you, we don't have the economy to field such a war. Let alone the manpower.

Its alot easier to invade tiny countries like Iraq. You run into HUGE problems when you go to war with a country the size of China. Thats alot of enemy territory to fly over. You are flying over something MUCH larger than the continental US. This creates refueling issues and supply issues. Plus you have many more targets to hit and you are fighting an enemy that has the ability to take out your naval fleet. That is if they just keep the war in China. They may also bring the war to US and judging how badly we were impacted by 4 jet crashes we are not able to comprehend the idea of war on our own soil.

China cant bring the war to the US they don't have the means also we don't have the manpower and economy to support a large war that US does best in large wars cuz we get to use everything we have every naval power all of our ground stuff we use our air force to its full potential we use our black project aircraft this war would not be well for china.

Originally posted by taobo33

oh stop trying to defend chinese expansionism, china is in the wrong threatening nations like taiwan and other nations in asia, china is the bad guy here, not america, i have taiwanese friends who clearly hates china and do want americans there and you are brainwashed by china, dont justify illegal aggression from china and turn around and condemn america for our war in iraq, you chinese are hypocrits when you do that, taiwan is our ally, we have defended them from chinese aggression since the communists took over china, we are not being hypocrits, we are being true allies, defending taiwan like we have promised, cuba and the phillipenes used to be an american territory, with chinese logic we would be in the right to take both back by force but i bet china would condemn us for that, wouldnt they....and taiwan may not be recognised by the US but if china uses force on them we will and are required to defend them...we dare? really and how dare you justify chinese aggression but turn around and condemn what we do.

what interest is taiwan to america? we have been there since the 40's before taiwan was even developed, what interests are you reffering to?

you try invading, you'll find out why noone has ever defeated our navy or ever been able to invade islands defended by our navy, no chinese will make it to land and our aircraft(navy and airforce) outnumber china by about 500 + aircraft, the sea will be an important area to win- china will be repelled.

Westpoint, ive noticed after reading most of your posts that you seriously overestimate our military's ability.

I'm not denying we cant 'take' China. I'm saying that theres absolutly no way we can fight China without destroying ourselves in the process. Theres alot more in war then just dropping a million bombs and driving tanks and planes. The economical collapse alone is enough to cripple our military. The bombs arent made for free, The bullets dont grow and trees, and the fighters dont fight for nothing.

quote: Originally posted by jazzmaster
And if China attacks the US on Taiwain, it is a defensive move? I doubt that the US would make an offensive move before China.


You think PLA will attack US forces crossing Taiwan strait. History will repeat its self. Remember what US ships did when PLA takes out Taiwan ships around year 1958? PLA will not attack US ships, but when US attacks PLA, US ships will be destroyed by saturated missile attacks. There is no business of US in Taiwan strait, so better stay out of the water of trouble.


quote: I say again, China ground troops WILL be reduced significantly when crossing over the water. The US also dominates the air, along with the water.


I also emphasize again:
US ships dare to attack PLA will rest in the bottom of Pacific. It would be either by missiles, which US has no defense over, or water mines, which will happen, or by subs, in which China has no defense either.

Yes. I say again: US do not have dominance in waters near coast of China.”



Please do not plagiarize what i said without my permission, it's really disrespectful. Even then you still forgot to edit out to make it right. Notice the underlined word: US ships dare to attack PLA will rest in the bottom of Pacific. It would be either by missiles, which US has no defense over, or water mines, which will happen, or by subs, in which China has no defense either.

Second of all, what makes you think that the US would provoke a war between the two countries? We are trying to protect Taiwan, helping it to declare its own independence and defend against China. By attacking China first, the US only disrupts that progress. And China attacking would only make Taiwan an international headline. I bet China does not want to do that. Even the news of the launch of the first Chinese in space WAS NOT broadbast after it was successful.

Again, NO, the US will not attack China first. We understand that by doing that, it would kill Taiwanese independence. Your mind is somewhat dilluted. China is the "world's factory," provoking a war will only hurt both sides, in which Chinese officials clearly understand. The risk of war is too much for China to take. Count how many allies that take side of China in the world, second to none. Russia will not support this because it is too costly for them also. Back to the subject. It is China who will make the first move. The US only want to protect the island.

Chinese ground troops WILL be significantly reduced when crossing the water. What defense does China have against missiles on its ground troops? NONE. How will China invade Taiwan? By its ground troops. China's submarine fleet is so small that it will have no effects on the war. They will be blown up by torpedoes before reaching Taiwan.

Firing nuclear-tipped missiles will be a tragic mistake China will make during the war. Firing at civilians will also be a tragic mistake.

China would be fighting against machines, not human. Our ground troops and Taiwanese's will contribute a small portion of the war. I guess that is taking Chinese soldiers prisoners when they swim to.

It is a costly war, and China cannot afford it right now, or they would have attacked a long time ago, not until this day.

It is a shame then such thoughts of beheading people is acceptable to you. But then again, convincing you that it's bad is as difficult as explaining to you that Taiwan is independent.

"If you are for peace, US should stay out of Taiwan strait. No US business there!"

Then what? Let China invade Taiwan?
Will it be a peaceful one? because the majority of Taiwanese are those who oppose communism in the first place. China would only oppress the press and keep the news about its bloody operations,