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The GOP Can't Stand Independence

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posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 04:20 PM
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I am a Republican who voted for Bush in 2000. I state that very plainly because it's important to know about me. Unfortunately, there are some here at ATS and elsewhere who can't seem to grasp the fact that not all Republicans think alike. Not all Democrats think alike. Consider the numbers of Democrats who abandoned their party nominee in favor of Ronal Reagan's bid for the White House. It happens. It's called independent thought. Rather than accepting there are different points of view within the GOP, they accuse me of not actually being what I say I am. It's ridiculous and intellectually stunted.

A long time ago I was a big Rush Limbaugh fan. I listened to him every day at work from '92-'95. I grew very disenchanted with him (to say the least) during the campaign season leading up to the '96 election. He had stopped going after Clinton the way he once had (which drew me to him) and refused to use his considerable clout to help Bob Dole. I began to see him as a complete sell-out. Afterwards, he just got worse and worse. I eventualy quit listening to him altogether.

I can the same about Fox News and Bill O'Reilly. Anyone who knows anything about foreign policy knows that the moment O'Reilly starts talking about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (for ex.), his credibility falls apart. That's why I began to see him in the correct light and why I quit watching that ridiculous psy/op organ they call news. It's pure Rumsfeldian horseshyte.

Since the run-up to the war I have grown more and more disenchanted, if not disgusted with the party I have supported all of my life. They have abandoned every last principle they once stood upon and become complete Bush sycophants. Welcome to the new GOP-led stepford nation! Free brown shirts for all!

I am still registered as a Republican but will most likely soon be switching my registration to unafilliated. I can't stand what the GOP has become. This does not make me a liberal. It makes me open-minded and fed up with the deceptions my once-grand party have shoved down a gullible nation's throat.

Rather than carrying on Reagan's banner of hopefulness, the GOP clings to rule through fear and intimidation tactics. I suppose that's what happens when you finally run out of any and all ideas. Funny, that's what Limbaugh used to say about Democrats. Seems like everything the Republicans say these days (against their percieved enemies) winds up being true about themselves. It's pretty sad.

Perhaps the true conservatives (the paleos) in our party can salvage it with stalwarts like Patrick J. Buchanan at the helm. Perhaps not. All I can say is that if I come off as sounding liberal and hateful towards the GOP it is because I feel betrayed by those who have allowed zealots to hijack our party and turn it into a club for fascists. This is NOT the party I once knew. It is actually now a party full of war-mongering liberals (Neo Conservatives) hiding under the cloak of the GOP. Why? (No offense to my liberal friends - I am not dissing you. You stayed right where you were at.) They switched to the GOP because no one in their own party was dumb enough to take them seriously.

If bucking my party makes me liberal, then so what? Call me what you like. Whatever eases your minds. Liberal isn't always such a bad thing, either, btw. It actually means progress. Conservative pretty much means no changing, ever. Look it up if you don't believe me.

A little change never hurt anybody. Neither has growth of perspective. I encourage you all to open up your minds to that idea.


[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]




posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 04:42 PM
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ECK, you bring a lot to the forum, i'm glad you're around and speak your mind (very coherently I might add). People do need to seperate themselves from their parties, and think independently instead of blindly following a party and spouting their "leader's" rhetoric. Independence of self is the key to keeping the USA the greatest nation in the world.

Keep up the good work!

-Attero



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Free brown shirts for all!

Rather than carrying on Reagan's banner of hopefulness, the GOP clings to rule through fear and intimidation tactics

[edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]


Reagan was 20 years ago. It was a different time and different things were happening. We weren't attacked on our soil with thousands dead during Reagans office. When G.W. came into office, we got attacked. (Clintons decimation of our military and intelligence agencies helped propell that attack) Different times ... different needs ... different moods of the country.

Free brown shirts = Nazi comment = 5 minutes ago.
That's silly and old and not applicable to the republican party.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 04:53 PM
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What can I say my parents are Republicans and my first vote was republican, I also did like republicans, I was amazed when an actor like Reagan became a president and he was republican, I even liked Bush senior when he was in the White house and the way he took our troops to help with Kuwait. I was saddened when he lost the re election to the white house.

I was pro bush Jr, in the beginning and I even felt proud when he went after Al-queda in Afghanistan.

What happened? I tell you, Iraq happened. After that alone with his policies and his agenda in this country I truly despised now the man. And I will vote him out.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 12:24 PM
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Attero Auctorita, appreciate the comments.


Marg, you & I have pretty much made the same trek. I turned on Bush when I saw him and his people all lying through their teeth (like Goebbels' fascists of yore) about WMD and the need to invade Iraq. Republican or no, the liars' gotta go!



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
All I can say is that if I come off as sounding liberal and hateful towards the GOP it is because I feel betrayed by those who have allowed zealots to hijack our party and turn it into a club for fascists. This is NOT the party I once knew. It is actually now a party full of war-mongering liberals (Neo Conservatives) hiding under the cloak of the GOP. [edit on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]


ECK, wouldn't it be fair to say the the once Moderate Democrats have been hi-jacked by a bunch of leftist zealots as well? I mean seriously, do you equate today's Democrats with the JFK era??? Just as the Republicans have moved further to the right, accordingly the Democrats have moved further to the left. Why do you think that such a political chasm has developed? Instead of your average, everyday Republican and Democrat splitting hairs with moderate politicians, we are now forced into adopting a "Side" to follow in the hopes of counter-acting the "Other side" and maintaining an air of moderation. See my point?



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 12:47 PM
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The Democrat-Republican thing is nothing more than a way for the powers that be to control the game from the git-go. The power elites fund both sides to ensure their voice. I suggest everyone forget about what letter comes after politician x's name and vote for the one who espouses common sense. I don't have a lot of hope for the upcoming election, in that respect.

There's an excellent article in the current issue of Harper's magazine concerning this realignment that is occurring. They posit that the only way a common sense third party power could rise is if enough disaffected Republicans climbe on board. Sign me up!



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 12:50 PM
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And I've said it for years. The Romans (and are we really that different from the Roman Empire???) devised the "Divide and Conquer" strategy hundreds of years ago. The whole Democrat/Republican game is nothing more than a way to divide and conquer the citizens of the US by keeping us enslaved to the two-party system. It nearly guarantees that these politicians will have life-long careers in government... and more scary... CONTROL.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:05 PM
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Americans who are truly concerned for the well-being and furtherance of our Democratic Republic need to start supporting alternative candidates at the local and state levels. It is not impossible to force a third and fourth party into the system! It is what we're going to have to do if we ever hope to have a government that serves we the people - instead of the other way around.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:08 PM
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I have to ask...

Where are the lies?

WMD? Every civilized country including France said they were there.

What else do you have? The only news outlet that is not rabidly anti Bush is FOX.

What else?

Fear and intimidation? Hello, there are people trying to kill us. We gotta catch em before they catch us. All because we have Hollywood. Or support Israel or what happened 1000 years ago in the friggin CRUSADES.

You have very old, very tired rhetoric that should be followed up with...
"Impeach Richard Nixon" You were born in the wrong decade. Just because you don't swallow everything your Mom and Dad told you does not make you as smart as you think you are.

Let go of the bias and really think freely.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:14 PM
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CRMANAGER,

If you don't like my tired-a$$ rhetoric, may I suggest you refrain from reading my posts? No one's making you.

Bush lied. Get over it.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:25 PM
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Hit a nerve?

The best you can do is " Don't listen?" I was hoping for better. You accuse the right of blind allegiance and then you follow a path of

"He just did O.K.?"

You are obviously smart. I guess my problem is that you are just.. against Bush.

There is a very good chance Bush will be a one term President. Oh well, life goes on.

But what will you be against when Kerry is in office and... nothing changes?

Toops are still in Iraq. The economy is still just growing not booming. Innocent civilians are still dying, here and in Iraq.

I am not trying to be a butthead. This is serious. What will you do?



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:31 PM
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No, you did not hit a nerve.


I've never said I support Kerry. For the very reason you pointed out, I do not know if I can even hold my nose and support him (the lesser of two evils).

What to do, what to do.

I voted for Bush, as I've said. But I've caught him and his people in way too many lies for me to be able to stomach 10 more minutes of his administration, let alone four more years.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 01:34 PM
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This type of thing is why I have turned into a Libertarian lately. I don't particularly dislike Bush. I think he's probably an alright person if you were able to meet him face to face. I think as much as he is able to, he is a sincere individual and probably a blast to party with, but I think he and the GOP are now hostage of the far religious right, just as Kerry is to the far left.

I still support the action in Iraq, Afganistan, and anywhere else we need to go to stop the Islamic Jihad, but I believe that the Bush Administration hasn't done a very good job conducting the war. I'm not sure that any Administration will be able to effectively govern or conduct decent foregn policy due to the obstructionism on both sides of the aisle.

Dispite what I have wanted to believe, everything I see does in fact point to an increased police state in the US, while our government refuses to heed the lessons of history and ignore the will of the people in almost all areas. This will not do and starts to gore some particular oxen that I own.

That's enough for me. Neither of these parties, Democrat or Republican will get my vote this year or in any to come. Some will say I'm wasting my vote, but I am patient and know that these things take time. No, Michael Badnarick, the Libertarian canadate won't be elected president this year. The Democrats or the Republicans will certainly mess us up more in the coming years. I know that, but the fed up trickle of people that, I for the moment am an example of, will grow and eventually be a realistic alternitive. The trick now becomes to survive and stay free that long.




posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 02:57 PM
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When I began listening to Dean (during his run), I found myself being drawn to a Democrat for the very first time. I saw him as fiscally conservative, bold enough to stand up and say he thought the war in Iraq was wrong and not beholden to the same interests as Kerry and Bush. I still maintain, to this day, it was a combined effort by both parties and the media to crush Dean. It was his independence that did him in. What a damn shame, too.

As far as Bush (what he's like in person), Christopher Hitchens wrote an interesting story on him in the latest issue of Vanity Fair. It deals with his former drinking and whether or not he qualifies as a dry drunk. Bush comes off as a real short-fused smart-aZZ. (My initial impression of him was pretty much the same as Ambient Sound's.)



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 04:08 PM
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They DO hate independent thought, period. Just seems to me that hardcore Bush supporters can't fathom the idea that they may be wrong, on any level. That's certainly the way Bush Jr. acts - he never takes responsibility for his actions, instead simply has his cronies tell us that we're stupid, and that history has changed.

9/11 can be used as an excuse forever and ever, but what has changed in three years ?
Good God, you'd think there wouldn't be so much of a threat like they still hold over our heads if the Bush Administration were doing their jobs correctly. I refuse to deny the facts about Iraq for fear of being "anti-American". True America haters would willingly hand it over to lying buffoons who do irreperable damage, rather than to admit that they were gullible.

I wish, for the good of the country, that we could drop our party pretensions and realize that as long
as we fight amongst ourselves, we all lose in the end.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 05:51 PM
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What is the point of your thread ECK? To say you are "disenchanted"? Like any of us give a crap, please show us evidence of your reasons because none of us true political observers really have time for opinions. I mean has Bush done something wrong? Is it really the Republican's fault?

Or is it the institution?

Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it for a while...then make a more educated post for discussion. Hearing about your passions and change of heart is very boring at best.



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by FreeMason
What is the point of your thread ECK? To say you are "disenchanted"? Like any of us give a crap,


I'll start here. You see? This is the kind of reaction one comes to expect from the party faithful. GROUPTHINK and angry tirades. To answer your question, I was explaining to those who cannot fathom a Republican might actually disagree with the larger GOP. It happens. There's nothing wrong with having one's own opinion. The past four years I have watched Bush run this country into the ground. I'm mad as hell about it. That doesn't mean I'm not a Republican. (For those who say I'm not.)


please show us evidence of your reasons because none of us true political observers


What makes you any more a true political observer than I am?


really have time for opinions.


If my opinion, which is every bit as legitimate as yours, bothers you, feel free to avoid my thread.


I mean has Bush done something wrong? Is it really the Republican's fault?


Bush has done plenty wrong. The biggest reason why is because he has blindly relied upon the counsel of advisors who have corrupt agendas. I could count the wrongs; but, I'm sure you've heard them before. Lying to the American people (those 16 words in the SOTU address, for example, constitutes an impeachable offense. How? The SOTU speech is, in effect, the same (legally speaking) as being under oath.) I'll leave it at that. And, worse even, he absolutely refuses to admit to ANY wrong-doing. If he's such a big Christian, he should know the very foundation of "being right with God" means to acknowledge one's wrong-doing before God and man. He fails that test, in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 02:46 PM
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I'm not the only Republican out there disgusted with the GOP. There is currently a civil war raging within the party. Christopher Hitchens describes it well in last month's issue of Vanity Fair. He dubbed it correct: the Neo-Conservatives Vs. Paleo-Conservatives. Paleos are true conservatives and NeoCons are frauds; war-mongering (not to mention clueless) liberals who couldn't find any takers on the left side of the aisle.

In '96 I was disgusted with both choices for prez. (Clinton and Dole) I wasn't about to vote for Bubba and I thought Dole was the dumbest pick ever to be put up against the incumbent. Mr. Hollywood vs. Mr. Snooze. I took another route. I voted for Patrick J. Buchanan in the primaries. Unfortunately, they Deaned his a$$. He was the real deal; therefore, he was crushed by the compliant and slanderous press corps. and by both parties who knew he speaks the truth.

I am even more proud of that vote today because of the courageous and independent stances he takes. He said the impending invasion of Iraq was wrong, unlike so many within the party and he wound up being right, unlike the rest. Another Republican I greatly admire is columnist Charley Reece. He tells it like it is. And he's not a happy camper these days, either. Here's his latest:

Incompetent Imperialists

by Charley Reese

We should start bringing our troops home from the far-flung corners of the world, establish a sensible self-defense posture and use the billions of dollars we would save to tackle all the really serious domestic problems we have.

Unfortunately, for that to happen you'd probably have to elect Pat Buchanan or me as president, and neither one of us is running.
www.antiwar.com...




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