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Originally posted by sezsue
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
Yes, the OP is correct.
The Genesis verse that everyone uses to make it seem like we have to support Israel, is only specifically referring to ABRAHAM. I looked this up in a comparative Bible, and the commentary states that the wording used is the singular and personal, it is not referring to the nation of Israel in any way.
The problem is the fact that many Christians haven't read this verse for themselves and if they have they haven't really thought about what it means.
Their pastor tells them this means God wants them to support Israel, and like sheep they do what Jesus would never support. Jesus did not advocate killing your enemies, far from it.
By supporting Israel, a nation that persecutes their neighbors, and for the most part, doesn't even believe in him, we are doing exactly what we are told not to do, following darkness instead of light.
And yes, lets read up on Moses, also. Read the part where it says that if the covenant is broken, they will be kicked out of the land, by God. There are actually many places in the Bible where this is confirmed.
Go here to see what the scriptures say about who is Biblicaly allowed to occupy the land.
The Old Testament emphasizes in dozens of the clearest passages that never will God allow an unjust rebellious nation of Jews to occupy His Holy Land [see footnote].
He wouldn't let even the spiritual colossus Moses in because of one infraction. He wouldn't let the ten doubting spies and an entire generation of Hebrews in because of unbelief.
Instead, God made it clear that only a believing remnant, trusting God and exemplifying righteousness, justice, and mercy (including to the "strangers in the land"), would have sanction to enter and occupy. This happened only two times in Old Testament history: under Joshua and, later, Ezra and Nehemiah, bringing back an obedient remnant from Babylonian captivity.
On the other hand, God repeatedly warns that if the Jews do occupy Palestine and yet turn from obedience He will scatter them to the nations. They cannot return until they embody the same righteousness as they did under Joshua and Ezra.
Scripture is also emphatic that at the second coming of Christ a beleaguered Jewish remnant, survivors of the collapse of the present counterfeit, anti-Christ state of Israel, will trust in their rejected Messiah, Jesus. At that time, and only after such repentance, will Christ authorize their return to occupy the land under Christ's benevolent rulership for 1,000 years.
Who then owns the land and has rights of occupation today? Righteous Jews who honor Israel's true Messiah, Jesus, will always own the land of Israel and have rights of occupation. But, until national Jewish obedience occurs again, God made two things very clear after exile of the Jews to Babylon in the sixth century B.C.
* Jews must dwell among the nations, seeking the peace and prosperity of their neighbors (Jer. 29:4).
* Surrounding Gentiles would have the right to temporarily dwell in and cultivate the land. Since they were not recipients of such transcendent truth and light as Israel, God will not hold them to the same high moral standard. But, if they became overtly wicked, He would also expel them.
Footnote:
* Scriptures forbidding Jewish occupation of the Holy Land in unbelief include: Lev. 18:28, 26:27-46; Num. 14:23; Deut. 4:26-27, 6:18, 7:12, 29:28; 28:21, 25, 37, 41, 56-64, Deut. 30; Ezek. 13:9; Jer. 7:15, 29:13-14
Also, read the part in the New Testament where Jesus says, since they didn't know the time of their visitation, that the Temple would be destroyed, the people disbursed, not to come back until they recognize him as their savior.
That said, God does sometimes use even wicked people to accomplish his goals.
God used Cyrus to punish Israel, and had his prophet tell them the name of Cyrus many years before it actually happened.
God has it all under control.
edit on 30-3-2011 by sezsue because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Le Colonel
i was raised in religious home, and now i am more spiritual than religious. How can GOD pick one set of people over another. A loving GOD would not do this. Only an Alien Overseer would pick and choose.
Just my thought. I believe in GOD but not gods, or a god. GOD does not pick one human over another. I just dont think that GOD works that way. It doesnt feel right.
Israel is a desert land. There is really not much there. To this day there is nothing of value there.edit on 30-3-2011 by Le Colonel because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by shroudnews77
reply to post by JustSomeIdiot
You say there is no God so where did you come from look at yourself in the mirror you had parents. They had parents it always goes back to 2 people
"know better" than to do that.
Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by gem_man
"Why not just simply say, radicals are dangerous to everyone and leave it at that instead of engaging in in your face bigotry by attacking all Jews based on your own radicalism?"
What bigotry? I defy you to find one post where I demonstrate bigotry towards the Jewish religion. Find ONE! This is not a discussion of religion or "Jewishness" but rather whether a Jew has a biblical right to the land. My argument is that Genesis 24 CLEARLY explains a covenant God makes with the decendants of Abraham. My point is simply Arabs are decendants of Abraham, some Jews are decendants of Abraham And all decendants have a biblical right to the land EQUALLY. IF you have an argument to dispute Genesis 24 please present it.