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fahrenheit lies??? whatever....

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posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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well, to the dying breed, known as "republicans", i say this: for the last few weeks, all i keep hearing is "moore is a liar", "he's a fat retard (nice..)" etc..fox news has oreilly spouting this garbage and all the misinformed people regurgitate it to me...base your argument on fact, then talk to me. the following link should clear up any "misconceptions" about the movie. does anyone really think he would be stupid and evil enough to make this stuff up? omg, the litigation that would have ensued..not to mention, someone would have filed a slander or liable suit against him allready, which hasnt happened...why? because they cant. every fact in that movie is backed up....everyone...

now ask any republican and theyll tell you different, well my question is this: who is YOUR source? fox news? msnbc? what you watch on tv? omg..plz...try this sometime..google this" talleban/texas...i know the "e" is wrong, but google it..go ahead...what do you make of that? there some 9/11 answers for ya...any more questions (or allegations) should be directed here:

www.michaelmoore.com...

any more questions? feel free. wanna argue about his weight? dont bother replying. save it for november




posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 01:12 PM
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Apparently you've been asleep since 2000 when the Republicans won the White House and then took over the majority in the House and Senate. That majority was further increased during the 2002 elections. That hardly constitutes a "Dying breed."

Secondly, you are a victim of propaganda and have failed to deny ignorance. Simply read the report issued by the 9/11 commission to recognize some of Moore's fallacies. If you'd like it boiled down for you, start with this... www.davekopel.com... Moore is a notorious fact twister and spinner. He did in Bowling for Columbine; the examples are outlined here... www.hardylaw.net...

In fact, Moore's sorry attempt to paint himself as an "everyman" is a complete and total lie. Moore DID NOT grow up in depressed Flint, MI, Moore instead was raised in the highly affluent suburb of Davidson, MI. He lives in a $2M Manhattan apartment and summers in his $1.2M dollar lake home on Torch Lake in Michigan, a highly affluent recreational area.

Now, if you would like to engage in a non-partisan debate regarding the factuality of Moore's F911 film, I'd be glad to. However you had better be prepared to cite VERIFIABLE sources in detail.



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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check my posting..all "57" are answered. as far as "bowling" is concerned, its pretty much the same. the bank scene? not staged by a long shot. what was edited? 30 minutes of him waiting for permit approval? theres some good cinema. the point is: BANKS SHOULDNT GIVE OUT GUNS !!! duh ! no matter how people say the piece was compiled, dont miss the point ! his comment to the male teller at the end of the scene, is a light joke. people wanna take that and say " you had to have a $1000 to open the account" "why would you rob it then?" omg...thats not the point. it makes the same amount of sense to me that beer companies sponser race cars...its things like that, that are whats wrong with our society..




Secondly, you are a victim of propaganda and have failed to deny ignorance. Simply read the report issued by the 9/11 commission to recognize some of Moore's fallacies.

www.michaelmoore.com...
that link is to the answer on the 9/11 commissons report, proving his facts...please read...





In fact, Moore's sorry attempt to paint himself as an "everyman" is a complete and total lie. Moore DID NOT grow up in depressed Flint, MI, Moore


moore was born in flint michigan. theres a whole chapter in "dude,wheres my country" dedicated to helping him spend his tax cut. he goes on to thank to president for giving him such a generous break. he also explains how other wealthy people such as himself are given back enormous refunds, and even has a copy of the direct deposit form issued by our government for refunds over a million...(wish i needed that one!)..

this "everyday" man thing is another contribed attack against him. he is an everyday guy...who happens to have made a few dollars. he didnt start makin any real money untill just a few years ago..he hasnt forgotten where he came from..also he pledged to use every dime of his tax refund to support any cause that would be running against the republicans...neat! ..that to me is a real person, who speaks his mind, no matter what...for that, i respect him......



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 01:46 PM
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I'm done here. There is no point in debating the issues with someone who is so willingly drinking Moore's Kool-Aid without taking the time to investigate external facts and sources. Just because Moore claims that something is factual doesn't make it so. Try escaping his website and do a little objective research, it'll shock you.

Example of Moore's "Facts"...

The complete version: A man was driving down the street one day, obeying all traffic laws and being very careful when an elderly man stepped out from a blind spot behind a van in front of the man's car. Not having enough time to stop the driver struck the elderly man with his vehicle knocking him to the ground. Alarmed the driver jumped out of his vehicle to help the pedestrian and to call 911 for assistance. While attempting to aid the pedestrian he dies of his injuries.

Moore's version: A man driving down the street today struck and killed a pedestrian.

Hmmmm... Sure, both accounts are factual (To some extent) but via selective ommission, the Moore version paints a much more sinister picture of the events as they took place. That is how Michael Moore works.

As far as Moore's upbringing... he lied to you. Public records indicate that he was Born in Davidson , MI. Davidson, MI boasts an average household income of more than 50% compared to nearby Flint, MI, the average home value in Davidson is over twice that of Flint and the black population of Davidson is less than 1%. Less than 5% live below the poverty line in Davidson while over 20% of Flint's residents live below poverty. Sorry sublime, you're idolizing a liar!



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 03:02 PM
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Try escaping his website and do a little objective research, it'll shock you


- OK, surprise us, your 'better facts' sources are?


Example of Moore's "Facts"...

The complete version: A man was driving down the street one day, obeying all traffic laws and being very careful when an elderly man stepped out from a blind spot behind a van in front of the man's car. Not having enough time to stop the driver struck the elderly man with his vehicle knocking him to the ground. Alarmed the driver jumped out of his vehicle to help the pedestrian and to call 911 for assistance. While attempting to aid the pedestrian he dies of his injuries.

Moore's version: A man driving down the street today struck and killed a pedestrian.

Hmmmm... Sure, both accounts are factual (To some extent) but via selective ommission, the Moore version paints a much more sinister picture of the events as they took place. That is how Michael Moore works.


- That's spectacularly lame. You just made that up didn't you? .....and you're not really a writer, are you?


As far as Moore's upbringing... he lied to you. Public records indicate that he was Born in Davidson , MI. Davidson, MI boasts an average household income of more than 50% compared to nearby Flint, MI, the average home value in Davidson is over twice that of Flint and the black population of Davidson is less than 1%. Less than 5% live below the poverty line in Davidson while over 20% of Flint's residents live below poverty.


- all my stuff says MM lived in Flint; it says nothing about where he was born.

I notice you only mention where he was born - so come on, did he ever live in Flint or not?

Is this "nearby" an exercise in hair-splitting?


Sorry sublime, you're idolizing a liar!


- The only person I notice idolising anyone are the few republican zealots here who have serious problems working out why the rest of the world doesn't adore the winking inanely grinning and waving - weird walking - flyboy Bush in quite the same OTT manner that they so obviously and always have done and do.

Amusingly some republicans/conservatives see that guy Bush & friends for what they are but it's too close to the election now to do anything about it, huh? Never mind those budget and trade deficits will just keep on growing and growing as your inactivity and lack of will to do anything about it just grows and grows. Nice present for your kids and grandkids you're leaving there thanks to your hero. Carry on, worshiping George W, it's your country that he's ripping off.


[edit on 23-7-2004 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jul, 23 2004 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by kozmo

As far as Moore's upbringing... he lied to you. Public records indicate that he was Born in Davidson , MI. Davidson, MI boasts an average household income of more than 50% compared to nearby Flint, MI, the average home value in Davidson is over twice that of Flint and the black population of Davidson is less than 1%. Less than 5% live below the poverty line in Davidson while over 20% of Flint's residents live below poverty. Sorry sublime, you're idolizing a liar!


First of all, it's Davison, not Davidson. Population of Flint is about 125,000. Population of Davison is about 5,500. If you look at a Map of Davison, Michigan, you will see that Davison is approximately 4 miles from the Flint city limits.

I tell people I live in Las Vegas. I actually live in the unincorporated township of East Las Vegas, a few miles from the Las Vegas city limits. Am I lying? If this is the best you can come up with for a lie by Michael Moore, I am not impressed.

Moore's life was always heavily involved with Flint. His father and grandfather worked in the General Motors plant in Flint. From Yahoo! Movies Michael Moore Biography


He won a merit badge as an Eagle Scout by creating a slide show exposing environmentally unfriendly businesses in Flint, and in 1972, when 18-year-olds were granted the right to vote, he ran for a seat on the Flint school board, soon becoming one of the youngest people in the United States to win an election for public office.

Moore was briefly a student at University of Michigan-Flint, he dropped out to focus on activism, and began a career as a journalist by working for the Flint Voice, an alternative weekly newspaper.


Bold emphasis is mine.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 04:26 AM
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Still waiting to hear of any actual lies......



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
Still waiting to hear of any actual lies......


Actually, the Fifty-nine Deceits document does contain examples of lies, factual inaccuracies, or whatever you want to call them. I say this as someone who is a strong supporter of Moore's credibility.

For example, he states that the Saudis own 7% of the U.S. That figure is wildly overstated.

He incorrectly states that the pipeline proposed for Afghanistan by Unocal in 1998 was a Caspian Sea pipeline. That was actually the 2003 pipeline proposal, of which Unocal was not a part.

He quotes Condoleezza Rice out of context, completely misrepresenting what she was saying.

Most of the deceits are just nonsense, or frivolous nitpicking. But there is some valid criticism in the document.

Overall, Moore's credibility is still quite high. Certainly higher than the credibility of the news media. And, compared to Moore, Bush and Cheney are corrupt, lying thugs, incapable of telling the truth about anything. Of course, we didn't need to compare them to Moore to know that, did we?


[edit on 7/24/2004 by donguillermo]



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 05:04 AM
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Originally posted by donguillermo
..........Overall, Moore's credibility is still quite high. Certainly higher than the credibility of the news media. And, compared to Moore, Bush and Cheney are corrupt, lying thugs, incapable of telling the truth about anything. Of course, we didn't need to compare them to Moore to know that, did we?


- That's the thing that gets me in all this.

A standard of constant perfection is demanded in everything MM says that is so obviously absent from the demands made upon the mainstream media.

It seems there's a 'how dare he editorialise anything' attitude out there yet editorialising goes on unquestioned in news rooms every night, year in year out; huh?!

(BTW I though the 59 deceits had been answered?)

[edit on 24-7-2004 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
It seems there's a 'how dare he editorialise anything' attitude out there yet editorialising goes on unquestioned in news rooms every night, year in year out; huh?!


What I love is when they editorialize about him editorializing. The irony of that is so incredibly overwhelming, it defies belief.

Does Moore spin stuff? Yup. Does he ever stretch the truth to make his point? Yup.

I'm glad Bill O'Reilly is above that type of thing



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 05:57 AM
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sminkeypinkey says


BTW I though the 59 deceits had been answered?)


Yes, the Fifty-nine Deceits document has been debunked.

Debunking '59 Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11'

However, there is still some valid criticism in the Fifty-nine Deceits document, as indicated by my post above.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 06:01 AM
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This is the funny thing. I have seen so many angry Repulicans who are ranting about how much this film distorts the truth, so where is all the evidence? Lets face it, if Moore had simply made up and desceptively constructed all the facts in the film then he would have been in trouble. I have been waiting for a right winger to prove any of his facts wrong. I am sick of the winging "oh he is biased" and "he presentes the facts in such a way that makes them untrue" garbage. Where is you proof?



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by donguillermo

Originally posted by kozmo


I tell people I live in Las Vegas. I actually live in the unincorporated township of East Las Vegas, a few miles from the Las Vegas city limits. Am I lying? If this is the best you can come up with for a lie by Michael Moore, I am not impressed.




I live in NYC...Jackson Heights Queens to be more specific...but do i go running around telling people I live in the Upper East Side (Where everyone makes 6+ figures?)...How bout if I tried to "Represent" and say I lived in the South Bronx?...That better?...I live within 6 miles of each....So yes...Lying about where you live can be a big deal...It could be a night and day difference...



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 06:42 AM
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well heres the missinformation in the movie Bush was on a golf corse it showed him hitting the ball but in realty he MISSED .



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 06:48 AM
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BasementAddix, I am not sure what point you are trying to make. You would only get into this discussion about New York neighborhoods with people familiar with NYC. To all others, you would simply say "I live in New York City."

The same situation applies to Michael Moore. When talking to residents of the Flint area, he would say "I live in Davison." To all others, he would say "I live in Flint."

To claim this is an example of Moore being dishonest is really grasping at straws.



posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 07:21 AM
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It is grasping at straws, were are all the people stepping up to disprove all the other 97% of stuff which is claimed by republicans to simply be misrepresentation.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 10:13 AM
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Aretha Franklin said it best… You’d better THINK.

Lets start with Michael Moore’s connection of the Saudi’s and other KNOWN terror sponsors giving George H.W. Bush’s company 1.6 billion (or something along those lines)

Then about the Moving Osama’s family members from the country after September 11, 2001 at the governments expense.

Any more “facts” concerning Moore’s load of bollocks (reference Eddie Izzard or a British person) please mention them.

What I am proposing: Moore fans, you provide documented or published articles referring to Moore’s claims and I will then debunk them with documented and published articles.

On another note, Moore only makes these movies to get people talking and go see them. When he makes his millions from all of you passionate democrats, he then keeps it for himself, only spending it on things you will never be able to afford and eating deep fried baby seals and maybe has the hope of having his 100,000 whopper broadcasted on live TV (by whopper, I mean the burger king sort [the kind that go into his mouth], not the whoppers[lies] [the kind that come out of his mouth])

If you think that we are in this war for “Bush’s oil,” I would like to remind you to look at the news footage from 9/11 and the beheading videos from the many American citizens who have been killed by the Iraqis. If you cant realize that Saddam and the other terrorizers have killed millions and deserve a tactical nuclear bomb, our country is really screwed.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 10:23 AM
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I really cant see how it could be a lie.
the footage of Bush speaks for its self.
Are you saying is wasnt Bush in those clips
saying all of the stupid stuff he was saying.

Im not really a fan of Michael Moore, and I dont think
he speaks for most of us. But the facts cant be denined
Bush is not for the people, unless you are talking about
the top wealthest people.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 11:20 AM
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.............What I am proposing: Moore fans, you provide documented or published articles referring to Moore’s claims and I will then debunk them with documented and published articles.


- Uh uh; it doesn't work that way matey, the films out there, you say it's bollocks so you say how. You think folks are going to do a little dance for you on this? LOL


On another note, Moore only makes these movies to get people talking and go see them. When he makes his millions from all of you passionate democrats, he then keeps it for himself, only spending it on things you will never be able to afford and eating deep fried baby seals and maybe has the hope of having his 100,000 whopper broadcasted on live TV (by whopper, I mean the burger king sort [the kind that go into his mouth], not the whoppers[lies] [the kind that come out of his mouth])


- something tells me you reall really hate it when people you don't like get wealthy by royalty. MM is wealthy because people like his work and don't mind paying the royalty on it (not that he makes the most from it anyway). Ditto with musicians etc etc. Get used to it. We don't have a grudge on someone who doesn't gouge us or cheat us like some of Bushs' best mates, huh?

......and how is your pension these days?


If you think that we are in this war for “Bush’s oil,” I would like to remind you to look at the news footage from 9/11 and the beheading videos from the many American citizens who have been killed by the Iraqis. If you cant realize that Saddam and the other terrorizers have killed millions and deserve a tactical nuclear bomb, our country is really screwed.


- so where is the proof of these "millions" Saddam killed?

As best as I can see he is responsible for deaths and an ugly regime yes but the vast majority of his behaviour was done with western approval.

The Iran/Iraq war - Iran and Iraq were both supported and sustained by the west, to contain the Aayatolla, with full western governmental approval.

Gulf war mk1 - Happened because of a dispute between Kuwait and Iraq and because Iraq believed the US had said it was not in the least bit interested in Saddam resolved it.

The latest is that claaim that Saddam killed tens of thousands of his own people cannot be sustained. Apparantly Saddam killed about 5 000. The stories of umteen mass graves is a myth. Revolting as it is to compare numbers like this that is hardly out of the ordinary in the ME over nearly 30yrs.

Saddam was not a nice guy, I am not saying that. I am saying that the various grounds for war we have been given do not hold water.

There were no nukes, there were no WMDs in 2003 period.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by setecastronomy
Aretha Franklin said it best… You’d better THINK.

What I am proposing: Moore fans, you provide documented or published articles referring to Moore’s claims and I will then debunk them with documented and published articles.


the truth is a commodity. bought, traded and sold. only voracious research and internal discernment bring actual truth. moore is full of it. he is a man of good conscience. he cares. unfortunately, he may just be a 'useful fool'.


Originally posted by setecastronomyOn another note, Moore only makes these movies to get people talking and go see them. When he makes his millions from all of you passionate democrats, he then keeps it for himself, only spending it on things you will never be able to afford and eating deep fried baby seals and maybe has the hope of having his 100,000 whopper broadcasted on live TV (by whopper, I mean the burger king sort [the kind that go into his mouth], not the whoppers[lies] [the kind that come out of his mouth])


what other reason do you make a movie for? OF COURSE he wants people to see it and talk about it. i heard he is donating the revenue to charity. can you debunk that? besides, as a good 'republican', you should be congradulating him on his brilliant capitalism.


Originally posted by setecastronomyIf you think that we are in this war for “Bush’s oil,” I would like to remind you to look at the news footage from 9/11 and the beheading videos from the many American citizens who have been killed by the Iraqis. If you cant realize that Saddam and the other terrorizers have killed millions and deserve a tactical nuclear bomb, our country is really screwed.


propaganda. they rushed into afghanistan, pointing fingers and munitions, because 'alleged terrorist' USAma bin laden was the goat. no proof. vague accusations only. then iraq is responsible. now iran. when the 'truth' comes in bytes, it AIN'T the truth.
if people can't realise that the world is under the control of a cabal bent on their OWN NWO out of the chaos they create, then our WORLD is really screwed. if you think you can nuke a concept(terror), then you are delusional. if you think nukes will solve anything other than the continuing mayhem on and illness of the organism earth, you are blind.



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