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And I would aver that subjugating love to will is a slippery way of asserting the dominance of the material over the spiritual. My impression was that if he could have gotten away with dismissing Love altogether, he would have; but short of that, placing it under the boot of Will was the best compromise to be arrived at. Just saying. In addition, Will in Thelema tends to translate to control and manipulation, which is quite in keeping with Crowley freely handing over his faculties to outside entities and encouraging others to do the same. He was quite right in asserting that medium-ship was akin to making your being into an etheric toilet, but he failed to extrapolate that idea to supposed "divine channelling". Also, as far as I know, that remains one of the sole references to love in thelemic law, and it it not what I would consider an endorsement of the principle.
Originally posted by coyotepoet
It boils down to the difference between divine will and individual will essentially.
Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
Divine will sounds to me like an excuse to do what you want, irrespective of social boundaries. Perhaps thats the point.
ALS
Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
So the reason people "do what the want" is because the do not know there "divine will" or what god's purpose for them is. Are you saying Aleister knew a way to find out "gods purpose"?
This is precisely what Crowley's teachings were based upon. According to Crowley, Thelema, or the divine will, is the very purpose of our lives. We incarnate for the specific purpose of fulfilling this will.
I am reluctant to take advice on how to excerize my Will from a man whose life-choices led to a solitary death as an impoverished junkie.
Originally posted by mistermonculous
I am inclined to draw other conclusions; but regardless, I am reluctant to take advice on how to excerize my Will from a man whose life-choices led to a solitary death as an impoverished junkie.
Originally posted by mistermonculous
Pardon me, but while I will agree with the Hastings boarding house bit (though it does not strike me as a particularly charming residence); he was still a regular user of morphine at the time of his death. Sources are consistent on this point. If you have found a source which contradicts this information, please provide a footnote.
Originally posted by mistermonculous
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I concede that my use of the term "junkie" was perjorative. Shall I substitute septuagenarian opiate user? However, Crowley was not prescribed morphine as a palliative against a terminal illness, but as a treatment for asthma. And if by "last days" you mean "last several years", then yes. Which smells like an old-timey Dr. Feelgood scenario to me.
Also, if someone has a long-standing habit, and lapses back into it in later life, can the habit be said to have been kicked? You either decide to discontinue a behavioral pattern you feel compromises you in some essential fashion, or you perpetuate it. I feel the passage of time is rather irrelevant.
I am reluctant to take advice on how to excerize my Will from a man whose life-choices led to a solitary death as an impoverished junkie.
you were forced to concede this point when pressed:
He lived to the age of 72, had long since given up opiates.
However, in the last days of his life, he was prescribed morphine by a physician and so did indeed use it at the time of his death.
Crowley was prescribed heroin for asthma while a young man. He eventually became addicted to it, as did thousands of others who received it for medical purposes. It was this habit he kicked in the 1920's.
Again, while we're probably beating a dead horse here, Crowley was near death and was taking morphine for intense bronchial pain, and not from a "behavioral pattern that was compromising him".
It also should be noted that while Crowley sometimes recommended the use of some drugs for mystical purposes (alcohol, absinthe, hashish, peyote), he never recommended opiates to anyone.
Originally posted by King Seesar
I don't believe in practicing magik and i especially don't condone practicing black magik so of course i'm anti Crowley, i think he was evil and dark based on a large proportion of his beliefs alone i do however cut him some slack because of his upbringing and the fact his parents were insane, so one can understand why Crowley went down the road he did but i find the whole thing ashame...