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Aleister Crowley - In Search Of The Great Beast.

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posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL

In the last of the videos I posted it states that Barbara Bush's grandmother (or mother I can't remember) Stayed with Crowley, it is believed that on the night they perform "sex" magick. So there is a connection with the Bushs.


It is likely that Barbara's mother met Crowley at least once in a Paris cafe, as she was travelling with a female acqaintance of Crowley's, who moved in the same Parisian circle of artists and poets. However, there is no evidence that either of the women were ever romantically involved with Crowley, or had any interest in magic.

Furthermore, Crowley's sex magic techniques preclude the possibility of pregnancy arising because copulation is not completed in the normal manner (this is what Crowley jokingly referred to as "human sacrifice", meaning sacrificing the opportunity to create a human during sexual intercourse for magical purposes).


Also how you can't agree that Crowley was a dark individual is beyond me, he manipulated and brainwashed most that he met, he summoned dark spirits to do his bidding and he participated in heinous sex acts such as torture and rape.



In reality, Crowley did none of those of things.




posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by coyotepoet

I know, I know, occultic means hidden but...


Ok, fair enough. But if you were involved in OTO, you already know that none of that stuff had anything to do with Crowley or his teachings. He even took a gossip rag to court on libel charges because they had referred to him in an article as a "black magician", and he wanted to clear his name from such a charge.

Now, quite obviously, there is a lot of nonsense being written about Crowley these days. And just as obviously, Crowley himself is in large part to blame for it. While he is completely innocent of all the current more absurd charges against him, he also possessed a wild and twisted sense of humor, and throroughly enjoyed shocking people, especially the more puritanical.

Therefore, I cannot consent to call him a "dark individual". Rather, I think that "unremittingly mischievous" would be much more accurate.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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It is on my personal opinion that Crowley was not an evil man, or that if he was, his purpose was to fashion a colorful doctrine that would lead many into faith in Yeshua the Christ. I was a non-bound Thelemite for many years; I was actually drawn to it as a 15 year old girl because I wanted to be a rebellious teen and felt a need to set myself apart. Anyway it was not until I became a little older (I'm 20 now) than I truly understood the propensity of his works. You must remember that the style of his workings are written using hermetics, or the art of explaining esotery in a way that is not direct and purposefully obscure that only the most fervent scholar would decipher its mysteries. It has always confused me as to why Crowley was seen as a Satanist, because despite the HERMETIC (remember, intentionally obscure) use of "satanist" symbolism in order to explain a conduit between the psychological and the spiritual, in Agape Liver vel Azoth he clearly states that Jesus is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, and that he is the way to love, light, and fulfillment. You can find PDF files of this document online very easily. He uses a very alluring and seducingly sinister mood to draw you in and then plops the Lamb of God into your lap and basically tells you that you know better and should never use a doctrine of faith or collection of philosophical writings to justify iniquity.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 



In reality, Crowley did none of those of things.


So the information out there about him i.e; books and documentarys is just propaganda/disinfomation?


(this is what Crowley jokingly referred to as "human sacrifice", meaning sacrificing the opportunity to create a human during sexual intercourse for magical purposes).


That actually makes a lot of sense.

ALS
edit on 14-4-2011 by ALOSTSOUL because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL

So the information out there about him i.e; books and documentarys is just propaganda/disinfomation?


If you are referring to rape and torture, I've never read any books or seen any documentaries that made such claims, but if any actual do, then yes, it's disinformation. Nobody ever accused Crowley of raping or torturing them, lol.

Crowley taught a certain type of freedom that encompassed politics, sexuality, and religion. This in-your-face type of personal liberty was considered shocking and even indecent in the puritanistic Victorian England of Crowley's lifetime. They therefore considered him "wicked", or "evil", or whatever. But I don't know why anyone would want to make up stuff like rape or torture, it's just dishonest. If someone disagrees with what Crowley taught or did, why not stick to what he actually taught and did?



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by MonarchSlave
 


It has always confused me as to why Crowley was seen as a Satanist


As masonic light stated in an earlier post; I believe a lot of the controversy surrounding Crowley was of his own doing. It seemed he used to love the fact that people would call him "the great beast".

ALS



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL

So the information out there about him i.e; books and documentarys is just propaganda/disinfomation?


If you are referring to rape and torture, I've never read any books or seen any documentaries that made such claims, but if any actual do, then yes, it's disinformation. Nobody ever accused Crowley of raping or torturing them, lol.

Crowley taught a certain type of freedom that encompassed politics, sexuality, and religion. This in-your-face type of personal liberty was considered shocking and even indecent in the puritanistic Victorian England of Crowley's lifetime. They therefore considered him "wicked", or "evil", or whatever. But I don't know why anyone would want to make up stuff like rape or torture, it's just dishonest. If someone disagrees with what Crowley taught or did, why not stick to what he actually taught and did?



I'm sure that in the video series I posted in the OP it states that he would lock his wife in the cupboard and make her watch while he would torture (S&M) and rape prostitutes. It also says that he would beat his wife on a regular bases, I think all this started after his failed attempt at climbing K2.

ALS



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
I'm sure that in the video series I posted in the OP it states that he would lock his wife in the cupboard and make her watch while he would torture (S&M) and rape prostitutes. It also says that he would beat his wife on a regular bases, I think all this started after his failed attempt at climbing K2.

ALS


I didn't watch the video series, but am a long-time student of Crowley's life, not because I agree with him on everything or even recommend his works to everyone, but simply because I've found his life and work extremely interesting.

Crowley never physically abused his wife, or anyone else. It could be argued that he neglected her (which he certainly did), especially after the death of their child.

Crowley admitted to dallying with prostitutes while he was a young man at Cambridge. Nobody ever accused Crowley of having raped or tortured them. In his later life, he spoke against prostitution in his writings, expressing his belief that prostitution was the result of neurosis, caused by social culture forcing people to repress their own sexuality.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 





Therefore, I cannot consent to call him a "dark individual". Rather, I think that "unremittingly mischievous" would be much more accurate.


I could be on board with that. Obviously by my post name and sig line, I'm quite mischievous myself.

I suppose to be more accurate myself I should say "too dark for my tastes" which leaves out judgment of him as an individual and puts it squarely in my take on Thelema, which has changed over the years.
edit on 14-4-2011 by coyotepoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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he was a very Evil man.
yes he had no toys,
so he made is own and games.
who he killed a cat nine times.
why not kill it one time and see if it came back.
and you can not kill a dead thing.
he had no Morales at all.
most people are drown to evil people.
they like the power.
most people like to be sheep.
and a lot like to be wicked and evil.
until they see what it truly is.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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There was nothing depraved or satanic about this Great Man.
Anyone has his own reasons to love or hate or even ignore Crowley, and that is something to be respected as a personal opinion.

But please, love him or hate him after knowing him, not basing yourselves in some biased documentary.

Not everything is for brainwashed sheeple.



posted on Apr, 14 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 





It is likely that Barbara's mother met Crowley at least once in a Paris cafe, as she was travelling with a female acqaintance of Crowley's, who moved in the same Parisian circle of artists and poets. However, there is no evidence that either of the women were ever romantically involved with Crowley, or had any interest in magic.


The video suggests that Pauline Pierce (Barbara Bushes mother and relative of President Pierce) participated in sex magick ritual of a "Supreme Ordeal" by saying "it is highly likely based on his previous experiences that his closest associates of that time, including Nelly and Pauline, served as his magickal assitants."

Crowley was living "under the roof of Frank Harris" at that time in 1924 who also lived with Nelly O'Hara who had a friend Pauline Pierce (married to Marvin Pierce-head of the McCall corporation.) In early 1924, Pauline traveled to Paris to visit her friend. It says she left Paris in early Oct 1924, and 8 months later gave birth to Barbara.

It implies that Barbara may have been conceived during the rituals and that Crowley may have been Barbara's father (though doesn't say it, though it does say "Could Crowley have been George W Bushes grandfather?"

Interesting to consider nonetheless.



edit on 14-4-2011 by coyotepoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 





Therefore, I cannot consent to call him a "dark individual". Rather, I think that "unremittingly mischievous" would be much more accurate.


So, this set is for you Masoniclight. For the sake of balance, here is a set of videos from Robert Anton Wilson (one of my all time favorite writer/philosophers.) RAW paints him as just that "unremittingly mischevious." He also covers why he had the reputation that he did along with other interesting things on secret societies and Crowley that paint him quite differently than the OP set of videos







edit on 15-4-2011 by coyotepoet because: Punctuation



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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Should one separate the merit of a man's works from his merit as a man? I waffle on this point more often than I would like.

I have read much of Crowley's work out of academic curiosity, and while they are intelligent and laced with a potent wit; they are also completely devoid of love.

In Crowley's case, accounts are quite consistent as to his habitual mistreatment of his associates, the physical abuse and psychological torture of his female consorts, and his truly heinous behavior toward animals of all sorts.

Not a big bible quoter, but this tree dropped some pretty putrid fruit.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by mistermonculous
 


Addendum: In fairness, many accounts of his nasty behavior come from contemporaries who may have had a vested interest in slandering the man. So there's that.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by coyotepoet
 


Thanks for you input and the video series, i'll be watching them tonight.

ALS



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by mistermonculous

I have read much of Crowley's work out of academic curiosity, and while they are intelligent and laced with a potent wit; they are also completely devoid of love.


I have to disagree with you on this point. While in his writings Crowley could certainly go off the deep end at times, there is much love to be found in his work as well. After, half of Crowley's Thelemic motto is "Love is the law, love under will".


In Crowley's case, accounts are quite consistent as to his habitual mistreatment of his associates, the physical abuse and psychological torture of his female consorts, and his truly heinous behavior toward animals of all sorts.


I would again point out that Crowley didn't physically abuse any of his female consorts.



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


I thought the motto was "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".

ALS



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by Masonic Light
 


I thought the motto was "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".

ALS


It was indeed but just one of many. I suppose it is one of his more well known quotes or mottos.
edit on 15-4-2011 by The 5th because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2011 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


And I would aver that subjugating love to will is a slippery way of asserting the dominance of the material over the spiritual. My impression was that if he could have gotten away with dismissing Love altogether, he would have; but short of that, placing it under the boot of Will was the best compromise to be arrived at. Just saying.

In addition, Will in Thelema tends to translate to control and manipulation, which is quite in keeping with Crowley freely handing over his faculties to outside entities and encouraging others to do the same. He was quite right in asserting that medium-ship was akin to making your being into an etheric toilet, but he failed to extrapolate that idea to supposed "divine channelling".

Also, as far as I know, that remains one of the sole references to love in thelemic law, and it it not what I would consider an endorsement of the principle.
edit on 15-4-2011 by mistermonculous because: (no reason given)





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